Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing

[Factabulous]

Anyway - lol if you think the FSS mechanic will actually involve skill.

As shown it is a skill, as it's not intuitive enough - without seeing the livestream there will be a constant stream of people asking the forums how it works (please add a tutorial to the game FD)

Though i agree once learned it is trivial - worse it seemed you have to wait to see if there are POIs, or just use the nav panel (which will be overloaded with poi)

I have similar issues to you about them not supporting people like us who relied on the sysmap, but want to see it in the beta, as it's still in the balance whether it will be better for alien Allen hunts...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They want the honk to reveal the system map because they care about the relative location of objects. That's something they are interested in.
The new system takes something away from them that made exploration interesting for them. Finding interesting looking systems and combinations of objects. The new system now forces them to do a complete system system surface scan for every system they jump into - just to get the information they got at a glance in the old system.

The new system is only better if the player primarily cares about credits.

You're wasting time and effort mate.

Still repped for the effort and the ability to read posts

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

They want the honk to reveal the system map because they care about the relative location of objects. That's something they are interested in.
The new system takes something away from them that made exploration interesting for them. Finding interesting looking systems and combinations of objects. The new system now forces them to do a complete system system surface scan for every system they jump into - just to get the information they got at a glance in the old system.

The new system is only better if the player primarily cares about credits.

It does not force them to do a complete scan. Most of these oddities are around Gas Giants, their best bet would be to concentrate their searches around them. And if there are no gas giants you will be able to see if there are any gravity distortions in close proximity to each other.

It won't be as easy as before and will take longer. Things change. Adapt or die.

Using the FSS doesn't take skill.
Using it Quickly requires some Hand-Eye coordination that some might consider skill (even if a trivial one for people with that skill)
NOT using the FSS (i.e. Just looking at the graph) will require experience and judgement that most would consider a skill

Of course there is skill involved. Anything that is learnt requires skill of some kind. I drive my car, it is now second nature to me, I don't even have to think about it, but there is still skill and expertise involved.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

They want the honk to reveal the system map because they care about the relative location of objects. That's something they are interested in.
The new system takes something away from them that made exploration interesting for them. Finding interesting looking systems and combinations of objects. The new system now forces them to do a complete system system surface scan for every system they jump into - just to get the information they got at a glance in the old system.

The new system is only better if the player primarily cares about credits.

Hyperbole doesn't help.

Anyone who can't interpret the new system enough to know which bodies to scan is an idiot.
The new system is better for many reasons - credits is the least of them.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

They want the honk to reveal the system map because they care about the relative location of objects. That's something they are interested in.

Sure, but now they will have to apply skills for that. Is that bad? Or real reason is this subjective evaluation of what IS interesting because it is easy accessible?

You know how easy access destroys any mystery and feel that it is interesting or not? That's what current placeholder honk does in ED.

The new system takes something away from them that made exploration interesting for them. Finding interesting looking systems and combinations of objects.

Nope. It even adds new tools and orrery map to FIGURE out interesting combination of objects. It will be even more interesting and fun.

The new system now forces them to do a complete system system surface scan for every system they jump into - just to get the information they got at a glance in the old system.

The new system is only better if the player primarily cares about credits.

But this is FD was talking about....fact that people does that lot of interesting things get skipped - including mysterious ones. There's good reason why majority of discoveries regarding Thargoids and Guardians have been via meta, not actual exploration. Because this drive by exploration facilitates it.

Also I LOVE new system and I have zero backside about credits.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

They want the honk to reveal the system map because they care about the relative location of objects. That's something they are interested in.
The new system takes something away from them that made exploration interesting for them. Finding interesting looking systems and combinations of objects. The new system now forces them to do a complete system system surface scan for every system they jump into - just to get the information they got at a glance in the old system.

The new system is only better if the player primarily cares about credits.

Exactly, the new system is an actual downgrade for the likes of us.

 

[Whitmann]

Does the orrery map move?

 

[Dommarraa]

Exactly, the new system is an actual downgrade for the likes of us.

Only if you insist on carrying on with your rather niche activity.

I have been rather understanding of ye-olde-explorers, but their intransigence is wearing a little thin. Open your eyes to the new possibilities, you might enjoy what you see.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I also had eclipses in mind when I saw the orrery. I think you could tell from the orrery whether an eclipse is occurring, or maybe even is about to occur.

True. But that would require manipulating the orrery in order to get that information, which of course takes time. Furthermore, such configurations aren't revealed in the system map, which means if you're relying on the system map to find "interesting vistas," you'll miss them entirely.

Based on what I saw in the live stream, under the new system, we should be able to spot eclipses about to happen during the scanning process itself, simply by seeing that there's a moon or planet near the horizon of its neighbor. Not to mention all the other interesting sights we'd normally miss if we rely on the system map to decide whether a system is worth exploring or not.

As I see it, the grumbling about how we're all "missing the point," is actually missing the point. Yes, thanks to the new system, finding the equivalent of Las Vegas while zipping down the freeway will take a bit longer than we're used to. But in return, we'll finding the equivalent of that marvelous little shop in a small town that sells the fantastic lefse... not the store bought kind with the flavor and consistency of wet cardboard, but the kind that practically melts in your mouth and delights the tongue even before you put the toppings on, as well as that bar and grill that grinds its own hamburger and cures its own bacon, that used bookstore where you can find a novel that's been out of print for decades, that seamstress who will tailor that dress in the window to fit you and mail it home for you when its ready, that antiquities dealer that has the most interesting things on display, that cave system you'd never know was there if you were taking the freeway...

Won't know for certain until I get my hands on the Beta, but I anticipate a lot more "stop to smell the roses" moments than I'm used to. And that, IMO, is a good​ thing.

 

[Adam Bourke-Waite]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Thanks for a response.

That you couldn't come up with a different solution meant that having the system schematic available after a honk was the only solution. That's basically it. The ideal solution was already there.

What you've done is basically hide the system map behind the timewall and removed the agency of making a snap decision as to whether it's worth spending time in a star system.

ALL the changes are brilliant and you've done a great job - except for removing the snap decision agency we enjoyed - the solution was always there and you removed it.

 

[Whitmann]

I think that's fair enough, and very sensible. Let's see and try it in practice before making judgements, harsh, glowing or otherwise.
Personally I share some of the OP's apprehension, but in less than a fortnight we'll be able to have first-hand answers one way or another.

ETA @ Adam

 

[StuartGT]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Cheers for the response Adam. We'll find out during beta whether the OP and co can adapt to the new, objectively better (for the vast majority of players) system, and I hope they spend a good amount of time testing it out free from "it's different so I won't like it" preconceptions.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Only if you insist on carrying on with your rather niche activity.

I have been rather understanding of ye-olde-explorers, but their intransigence is wearing a little thin. Open your eyes to the new possibilities, you might enjoy what you see.

Like what, exactly ?

Our category of ye-olde-explorers are not interested in money, nor earth-like work tagging or other such tagging for that matter.

We are looking for rare combination of objects leading to incredible vistas and experiences. To assess the possibility of such arangements,
one need to have overall informations, in particular orbital periods and inclinations that are not available with the new Scanner mode*.

I.e. : For us-ye-olde-grumpy-explorers, we'll have to nearly fully scan every single "maybe" interesting system.
In my experience, the hit rate for the places I look for is about 1-3% of the potentially interesting systems.
The new system is going to seriously cramp that style of exploration.

But sure, we'll do it the way of the compulsive hippy-ye-ya-yougsters money-farmers. It'll just be slower.
FSS will sure get fast to use after a while. But there is no way it'll beat the honk for finding out of ring plane icy-moons arround gas giants.

The orery will be nice to not find interesting inclinations at a glance though. Love that.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the new system is better than the old, and I understand that we-olde-grumpy-explorers had to be thrown under the bus with our excentric gameplay.

Still. Not cool.

For now I'm holding my judgment on the new system for that style of play, but I expect it to take 5-10 times longer per system go-nogo decision.
Ability to find geological POI OTOH just made things a lot cooler for geysers and other such things. That's the bright side (for me at least).

*If possible, adding some hints for strange inclinations and for the orbital periods in the FSS spectral thingy would make things more palatable,
esp. if deducing that information required extra skill.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Don't worry, I will test it during the beta and will try to provide useful feedback.

Most of the exploration changes are really nice - like the orrery, the new mapping method with probes and the way that now interesting surface locations are shown.

Two questions:
What does FSS stand for?
Will the calibration slider reset every time the scanner is used or while entering a new system or can it be placed on a frequency and stay there? (The later would allow to set the slider to "ELW" frequency and then just jump to systems until a pattern is below the slider. Not sure if that is intended)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Thanks for that.

Not finding a solution is understandable, but the way you guys phrased it in the stream did sound a little odd.

The saving grace could be the 'Stellar Forge Oddity Aficionados' (as opposed to 'traveler') finding their oddity fix in the POIs. But that would mean that the POIs are open to the possibility of having oddities. We'll find out about that after the beta, when we have been using that feature for an extended time. It seems that the new mechanism is slow to reveal the layout of the system (but as you said, presents it better in the orrery) but throws quite a few POIs your way. If investigating these POIs holds the interest for a long while, then I believe the SFOAs will perhaps be able to scratch the itch they're looking for now in a different way.

So ... get cracking on diversifying them POIs!

 

[Spaceman Si]

Only if you insist on carrying on with your rather niche activity.

I have been rather understanding of ye-olde-explorers, but their intransigence is wearing a little thin. Open your eyes to the new possibilities, you might enjoy what you see.

Could you define "ye-olde" for me please? Only I've just been out exploring since July this year, and I'm not sure that qualifies me for the tag of "ye-olde", but I still don't want to see the sysmap being removed on honk

I don't feel like I am being intrasigent either, just sticking up for a point of view about something that makes my game-time enjoyable, and am concerned that it is about to become less so because of this. Hopefully you'll allow me that much

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Thanks for a response.

That you couldn't come up with a different solution meant that having the system schematic available after a honk was the only solution. That's basically it. The ideal solution was already there.

They obviously thought differently.

What you've done is basically hide the system map behind the timewall and removed the agency of making a snap decision as to whether it's worth spending time in a star system.

They have hidden it behind a gameplay wall, not a time wall. You can still make a snap decision by looking at the wave forms, but your decision may be open to error, not necessarily a bad thing.

ALL the changes are brilliant and you've done a great job - except for removing the snap decision agency we enjoyed - the solution was always there and you removed it.

There was no solution in the first place. The initial honk could not stay the same as it would have invalidated vast parts of the new gameplay. That would be stupid. We are all going to have to adapt the way we explore including you and the few others that play like you.

 

[zzehirbazz]

I dunno what all the fuss is about. When we simplify what they did it basically is this:

BEFORE: We were supposed to travel to already visible planets close enough to initiate the scan which was time consuming and silly.

AFTER: We can initiate the scan from where we stand (sniper-scope mode) and while revealing the planets we get the same info we used to get ONLY when we were close enough, which means faster.

About the probing,

BEFORE: There was no such thing as revealing stuff on bodies without eyeballing them, again time consuming.

AFTER: We probe them from space and reveal POI's which is extra gameplay and faster.


Basically to sum this up, it is pretty much obvious that the new EVERYTHING about exploration is a plus. I thought not revealing the planet locations on initial arrival to a system would suck but the Orrery view already tells you about this without even jumping to the system AFAIK.

So can somebody explain to me what is actually bad about this overhaul again?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Thanks for that.

Not finding a solution is understandable, but the way you guys phrased it in the stream did sound a little odd.

The saving grace could be the 'Stellar Forge Oddity Aficionados' (as opposed to 'traveler') finding their oddity fix in the POIs. But that would mean that the POIs are open to the possibility of having oddities. We'll find out about that after the beta, when we have been using that feature for an extended time. It seems that the new mechanism is slow to reveal the layout of the system (but as you said, presents it better in the orrery) but throws quite a few POIs your way. If investigating these POIs holds the interest for a long while, then I believe the SFOAs will perhaps be able to scratch the itch they're looking for now in a different way.

So ... get cracking on diversifying them POIs!

Also you will also being able to find the Stellar Forge Oddities while searching for these POI's. So it could be a win win.