Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing

[babelfisch]

Thanks for a response.

That you couldn't come up with a different solution meant that having the system schematic available after a honk was the only solution. That's basically it. The ideal solution was already there.

What you've done is basically hide the system map behind the timewall and removed the agency of making a snap decision as to whether it's worth spending time in a star system.

ALL the changes are brilliant and you've done a great job - except for removing the snap decision agency we enjoyed - the solution was always there and you removed it.

Thing is, showing the system map without scanning wouldn't make any sense because if you already know which planets are where in the system you wouldn't need to scan them anymore. So keeping the instant reveal is a solution for your problem, but not a solution for the other problem: That the current exploration gameplay is boring and uninspired.

 

[zzehirbazz]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Adam can The Orrery map seamlessly zoom in and out the whole system ?

Whenever you find a POI, etc. is it labeled in the orrery view for later?

 

[Muetdhiver]

Also you will also being able to find the Stellar Forge Oddities while searching for these POI's. So it could be a win win.

I agree. Abit. But. OTOH sifting for odd systems will take a whole lot longer.

POI value really depends on their variety and whether they added new "odd" ones to the current roster.

 

[Spaceman Si]

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Thanks for the response Adam.

I can't help feeling that there was a certain amount of this being a solution to a problem that didn't really exist, and I have this dim recollection of someone from Frontier saying that the existing exploration mechanics wouldn't be changed, but new things would be added - that would have been certainly the safest route to take, I think!

I wasn't convinced by the livestream demo in terms of time taken to id a system and build a system map either, it seemed quite an involved and comparitively lengthy process, with a lingering doubt in my mind as to how long a 50+ body system would take to scan, together with a nagging feeling that this will get tiring quite quickly.

Having said that, I'm certainly willing to give the beta a try out with an open mind, I just hope that you will be willing to listen and act where possible on further feedback, even if it is more of the same as the OP.

For the sake of balance and fairness, I should like to point out that everything else that was demoed looked utterly awesome, and you had me drooling with the prospect of the in-game Orrery and the beautiful lighting in the ring systems! On the subject of the Orrery, and slightly OT, but will it have a time-lapse function in it, like the old Frontier one did, and like the one that the guys at EGO have done already? ( http://www.elitegalaxyonline.com/ ) That will be essential for looking for upcoming alignments, etc.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

I, for one, am very happy that actual exploration takes more than 5 seconds per star system now. And that's what a lot of explorers wanted.

I think the new system looks very promising.

 

[Ziljan]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Thanks Adam. Just want to say the system you created is brilliant on multiple levels and will breathe new life into Exploration. Everyone I've talked to about the live stream, both veteran explorers and bubble dwellers alike, are extremely excited to try it in game. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Thing is, showing the system map without scanning wouldn't make any sense because if you already know which planets are where in the system you wouldn't need to scan them anymore. So keeping the instant reveal is a solution for your problem, but not a solution for the other problem: That the current exploration gameplay is boring and uninspired.

Biding my time now, for my prediction is that once the greater playerbase gets their hands on the beta, once it begins to sink in that it now takes time to decide if a star system is worth taking time in - well, let's just see what happens.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I agree. Abit. But. OTOH sifting for odd systems will take a whole lot longer.

Possibly. It may not take as long as people think. People are moaning it could take 25 minutes to scan a 100 body system, but these are very rare and to be honest 25 minute for 100 bodies is not bad.

Most systems will take between 1 minute and 4 minutes to complete (if you go by the live stream) if you want to complete them. You could just concentrate on the likely areas that will contain oddities like gas giant ands its moons.

POI value really depends on their variety and whether they added new "odd" ones to the current roster.

From what I can gather, it certainly sounds like they have added more to the roster and I can imagine that when we get atmospheric planets (could be next "era" of ED) the POI system will be the most important part of exploration.

Thanks Adam. Just want to say the system you created is brilliant on multiple levels and will breathe new life into Exploration. Everyone I've talked to about the live stream, both veteran explorers and bubble dwellers alike, are extremely excited to try it in game. Couldn't be happier.

I agree. I have seen loads of people now saying that they will be re-installing the game after that stream.

 

[Spaceman Si]

Thing is, showing the system map without scanning wouldn't make any sense because if you already know which planets are where in the system you wouldn't need to scan them anymore. So keeping the instant reveal is a solution for your problem, but not a solution for the other problem: That the current exploration gameplay is boring and uninspired.

It would make sense in the way that the sysmap reveal currently tells you nothing about the chemical composition or certain orbital elements which you can only get by travelling to that object and scanning it (and therefore tagging it)

I could see a half-way house where the sysmap reveal was still there, but the new scanner has to be used to find out those chemical compositions, etc. That way, everything would be faster, because you would still get the system map instantly, but tagging and chemical analysis would be quicker because the travel time would have been removed (and I can definitely see how the new system makes that much faster!)

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Biding my time now, for my prediction is that once the greater playerbase gets their hands on the beta, once it begins to sink in that it now takes time to decide if a star system is worth taking time in - well, let's just see what happens.

As long as the time taken is fun and engaging, does it really matter?

 

[Hellakitty]

I move with the speed and precision beyond most people in this game

 

[Julio Montega]

I think the change will work as all changes did before:
Get some players back in for a month to see the new UI,
then realize the baseline game-core did not change a bit
and have most of them retire again.

Those who stick with it, enjoy having a reliable (probably bugged) way
to detect new sites and planetary POI.

Same old song.

 

[Ziljan]

Thanks for that.

Not finding a solution is understandable, but the way you guys phrased it in the stream did sound a little odd.

The saving grace could be the 'Stellar Forge Oddity Aficionados' (as opposed to 'traveler') finding their oddity fix in the POIs. But that would mean that the POIs are open to the possibility of having oddities. We'll find out about that after the beta, when we have been using that feature for an extended time. It seems that the new mechanism is slow to reveal the layout of the system (but as you said, presents it better in the orrery) but throws quite a few POIs your way. If investigating these POIs holds the interest for a long while, then I believe the SFOAs will perhaps be able to scratch the itch they're looking for now in a different way.

So ... get cracking on diversifying them POIs!

You seem pretty convinced that oddities will be found less often, but really if there is any sightly marginal reduced rate of discovery per Commander, it will be massively offset by several factors: increased accuracy and detail afforded by the new toolset, communal discovery making double passes/checks much easier, rumours, and of course the vast new army of Explorers that is sure to be roaming the Galaxy starting in December.

So chin up Alad. It's a bright new dawn. No need to pin all your hopes on POIs.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Possibly. It may not take as long as people think. People are moaning it could take 25 minutes to scan a 100 body system, but these are very rare and to be honest 25 minute for 100 bodies is not bad.

Most systems will take between 1 minute and 4 minutes to complete (if you go by the live stream) if you want to complete them. You could just concentrate on the likely areas that will contain oddities like gas giant ands its moons.


From what I can gather, it certainly sounds like they have added more to the roster and I can imagine that when we get atmospheric planets (could be next "era" of ED) the POI system will be the most important part of exploration.



I agree. I have seen loads of people now saying that they will be re-installing the game after that stream.

I do think that if systems are seeded with more interesting "stuff" to find in the FSS, the extra time + focused scanning might not be bad and in fact be a serious
improvement. OTOH I expect a lot of "duds" as far as my exploration style goes. At least I'll get credits that I don't need for it.

And yeah, from watching the Stream at least 3 people I know are coming back at least for an exploration trip and likely group mining. Cool that.

And if the squadrons tie with an improved BGS, more will come back.

 

[CMDR Asuradice]

As expected, any new information released by Fdev is instantly met with battle lines being drawn, sides taken, shots fired and a wealth of contradictory opinions being voiced about a thing *none* of us has even tried yet.

The beta launches next week. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I really only want to hear informed opinions, speculation is pointless with a beta upcoming. We're adults, we can try things ourselves and judge them on what they are, not just what we think they might be.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

My exploration style is identical to that of the OP, and I share their concerns. The new system will undoubtedly slow down the sight seeing form of exploration. Added to that, for me personally, it will also likely add to the time it takes me to create exploration based videos.

All that said, I'm of the opinion that the changes are worth the price. I'm happy to adapt to the new system, because it is clearly better in many ways. We will have to wait until Beta to test for ourselves of course, but my impressions are that the new exploration changes will make this an overall much improved game. If that means I lose my current exploration style, or (more like the case) have to adapt my exploration style, then I'm all for it!

 

[Julio Montega]

As expected, any new information released by Fdev is instantly met with battle lines being drawn, sides taken, shots fired and a wealth of contradictory opinions being voiced about a thing *none* of us has even tried yet.

The beta launches next week. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I really only want to hear informed opinions, speculation is pointless with a beta upcoming. We're adults, we can try things ourselves and judge them on what they are, not just what we think they might be.

When beta launches a new contender enters the ring.
If the livestreams are not showing interesting enough changes, why not try out a new
product with a real economy and mod support?

The discussion before testing the content ourselves very well has substance this year,
rightfully so, as the Space-game sector becomes more crowded.

Additionally FD can compare the reception of the design in the livestreams with the experiences
the playerbase has within the beta.
Analyzing that will yield a trend of what the players imagine and want.
How can that not further the development of this game, albeit sometimes being like the neutral zone in Star Trek?

 

[Drazkul]

Hi all,

I just wanted to drop by and clear up a few things:

After the first presentation of Exploration, we received a vast amount of feedback and I personally took the time to read a large amount of this. Having done so, we set out to look at the different types of explorers we have in the game and came up with nearly a dozen different types. One of which was the type presented by the OP here. We then tried to use that information to look at the new mechanics to make sure they would work for as many of those types as possible. Unfortunately we weren’t able to come up with a solution that allowed players, like the OP, to maintain their current flow without severely altering the gameplay of the other types or changing the design direction of the FSS.

We’ve made the FSA as readable at a glance as possible, with a lot of information being presented if you wish to master the system. Also as we showcased on the stream, you can become very proficient and quick with the FSS, and we believe that the additional time required isn’t too dramatic.

The Orrery view also means that you should be able to find interesting orbits or clusters of planets without having to actually visit them.

We would love for you to try out the new mechanics during the beta and provide us with feedback on how it impact the way you play.

Can't wait to try the new system and I'm probably quite similar to the OP in how I explore.

One question if you don't mind me asking though - will the Voyager probes be easier to find in 3.3 as to my understanding they are essentially signal sources currently that only appear at a certain distance out in Sol. Will they show up like other signal sources in the Sol system in 3.3?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I do think that if systems are seeded with more interesting "stuff" to find in the FSS, the extra time + focused scanning might not be bad and in fact be a serious
improvement. OTOH I expect a lot of "duds" as far as my exploration style goes. At least I'll get credits that I don't need for it.

And yeah, from watching the Stream at least 3 people I know are coming back at least for an exploration trip and likely group mining. Cool that.

And if the squadrons tie with an improved BGS, more will come back.

I'm sure there will be duds (brown dwarfs with the usual 8-9 ice planets), but these maybe easy to spot. Difficult to tell to be honest. Even the current duds could end being spectacular with atmospherics and the ice world improvements that are coming in the future.

 

[M00ka]

As expected, any new information released by Fdev is instantly met with battle lines being drawn, sides taken, shots fired and a wealth of contradictory opinions being voiced about a thing *none* of us has even tried yet.

The beta launches next week. We're all entitled to our opinions, but I really only want to hear informed opinions, speculation is pointless with a beta upcoming. We're adults, we can try things ourselves and judge them on what they are, not just what we think they might be.

WARNING - you will be ostracised in the forums if you continue to use common sense and logic, it isn't allowed!