News Chapter Four - Exploration Reveal

[[VR] Deggial]

... besides, just passing time does not produce quality. testing and fixing does.

Well, they certainly don't do that.

Haven't you read? FDev just got an award for "great working conditions" in the IT industry. (Congratulations, by the way! )
You don't get this stuff when you let your employees do actual work!
All they do is eating donuts drinking tea (sorry, Britisch company!) and playing table soccer all day long. No time left for working, testing, fixing!
Don't you follow the forum, man? They are apparently lazy developers!

...

Oh, and as this is the internet, here the obligatory smiley to accompany this post:

 

[Alec Turner]

Sounds interesting. But also raises some question. First one that came to my mind was: Do I have to use cargo space (like with limpets) for those launchable surface probes? If so, then its really gonna spoil exploration, as their mass (like limpets) is gonna affect jump range. And one more item that you have to figure out ”where do i get more of these puppies, as they are always ’out-of-ammo’ at the exactly wrong time.

The exploration probes are like ammo for the new DSS so no cargo requirements. This ammo can be replenished through synthesis.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Announcement of announcement for today...?!

[video]https://clips.twitch.tv/BusyTardyPlumageOSfrog[/video]

 

[Alec Turner]

Beyond-Chapter-Four-Beta-Announcement

 

[AL TARF]

A few words about the latest reveals. I know not everyone going to agree with the following. Just keep in mind that it's just my thoughts on what I've seen on the stream. I may be wrong at some points or all of them, but it's not the reason to get mad. With that said I proceed.

FOREWORD:

Spoiler

Exploration in Elite is what ultimately convinced me to buy the game. I love astronomy, space and everything that goes with that. I can say that my most important world views were shaped by that passion and Elite is just one of the ways for me to sate some of that feel of discovery. And while this game became less interesting for me because of how much time I've spent playing it, I realize that I played it for 1,6k hours and this is MUCH-MUCH more than 90% of the games I play (My favorite "long" game of all time and the second in time-spend rating TES V: Skyrim has 1117 hours and it's 6 years old!). This is the fact, by the way, that a lot of people here, including me, have "bleed" the game dry, learned every aspect and searched every corner and just got tired of it. I can share one life hack with you - give your CMDR a break! Play something else for a change or nothing at all and then, when you'll start to miss Elite (and you will, most likely) return to ED and you'll get a portion of that first experience feeling you miss. So, as you can see, I'm extremely excited about the upcoming updates which imo will refresh my gaming experience in ED. Now to the details:

1. Adaptive game lighting — at first seemed a bit to much, like what the hell? It's too bright. But then a realized this actually looks a lot better and realistic. Like your eyes are getting used to the light, but only to some extent, so bright light is still a bright light. Amazing work on that one! However, I didn't like interior changes as much. It looks like when you turn gamma settings all the way up, so that black becoming gray. Perhaps this is something team should consider working on a little bit more imo. Everything else in the visuals part - great!
2. The UI changes are my favorite (not really). They always nice to have even if the old ones were OK. Important thing is to note make them a: way too different, b: bugged. We'll see about B, but A is here, as I can tell by the stream. It looks more convenient, clean and comprehensive. Your intention to replace some words with pictures will with 95% probability make a lot of pilots playing Russian version of the game very happy, as there're SO many clipping words, letters, strings etc. right now, that even people who don't understand English well prefers that version.
3. Exploration data share - awesome. I'm eager to see how it'll work, but the idea of exploring space to benefit everyone warms my heart as it is. There are some websites that help do this right now, like EDSM. But having the same or better mechanic in the game is very nice. Thanks for that.
4. Spectral Analysis. I'm going to say probably the obvious thing, but for me it looks genius. Why is that? Because you at the same time simplified the exploration and made it more complex. In other words you made it more complicated in interesting way and more convenient in boring or routine way. Flying to the bodies you wish to do detail scan of had some magic, especially in the very beginning. But as my Exploration rank grew, certain things started becoming more...stale, and some things are much more than others. Flying to planets is one of those. So I say - bravo to the team. I like it A LOT. I'm not 100% sure I got everything right, will have to try it myself (can't wait), but so far - wow.
5. Probe mapping. Reminded me Mass Effect 2, another one of my favorites, a lot. We'll see if it ever get boring, but another couple of hundreds of hours it will surely work well. If more that that - even better. Orrery — one of these little nice things you can have and enjoy from time to time. Codex is cool as well, I like the UI a lot. Voiced logs are good to have. It's about time we have something like that in the actual game. The discoveries menu is very cool. This is like the whole new level exploration. As a completionist I find all these changes and updates very promising, interesting...and frightening Just a little bit. The one thing I'm concerned about is that Galaxy map already have names for certain regions. Perhaps you could take it into consideration, because I think a lot of them are really cool and anything is better than just numbers.

Looking forward to see this update go live. My regards to the team. I already can see there are reasons to start playing Elite as a "main game" once again and thank you for that. I hope all future updates in will be as pleasant and cool as these, whether it be PP, BGS, Minin or something else.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

@AL TARF Bare in mind that Adam Woods did say that these weren't final settings, and that the interior changes look different to what they showed us (he mentioned something about turning it down a bit).

 

[Cmdr Shijima]

Thank you FDev; very cool.

 

[SystemShift]

So when you drop into a system next to a start do you, or can you see the planets/moons befor you scan or do they only appear after you scan ?

 

[Alec Turner]

Adaptive game lighting — at first seemed a bit to much, like what the hell? It's too bright. But then a realized this actually looks a lot better and realistic. Like your eyes are getting used to the light, but only to some extent, so bright light is still a bright light. Amazing work on that one! However, I didn't like interior changes as much. It looks like when you turn gamma settings all the way up, so that black becoming gray. Perhaps this is something team should consider working on a little bit more imo. Everything else in the visuals part - great!

Actually Adam did stress that those in-hangar lighting effects had been reworked considerably since the Lavecon comparison screenshots they were using, he even tried to ask Will not to show them again. So I think they have been worked on more since then.

Exploration data share - awesome. I'm eager to see how it'll work, but the idea of exploring space to benefit everyone warms my heart as it is.

It's nice to finally be able to say that this was the "subtle and elegant" change I hinted at after my FD visit which they'd made to the discovery mechanics so that "sometimes" we would be able to see a completed system map after the honk. Essentially, if nobody has ever scanned the system before (and handed in their data) then you have to use the new discovery interface to fill out the system map, but if someone else has been there before then it's automatically filled out for you as at present. Not only does this support some of the old "traveller" discovery tactics that people have become accustomed to, but also, almost as a side-effect, it suddenly supports this idea of the community unveiling the galaxy as they go. Personally I think it's a genius idea.

The one thing I'm concerned about is that Galaxy map already have names for certain regions. Perhaps you could take it into consideration, because I think a lot of them are really cool and anything is better than just numbers.

Sign the petition: New-Regions-Why-not-use-the-ones-already-established-by-the-exploration-community

 

[Nagual]

Yes! Finally starts to make sense. But it also would imply the old local map being still there? Or is it completely replaced by the orrery map?




Title sounds like a good idea! Guess I will sign...

Both types are there.

 

[Wendake]

So? How does the classic local map look then on first arrival when nothing has been scanned before? I would expect just the center star and nothing else. But that's a total unbiased and open question as I'm honestly curious.

I guess there's a reason why FD wasn't quite clear on this in their latest stream: Cause they know exactly they would have to upset one or the other camp, no matter how they decided. Thus they rather keep quiet.

They clearly said in the livestream that the "HONK" in a new system would reveal only the main star. So I assume that we'll only see the main star in the system map.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

im more worried because i just found out this change coming and im over 20000 ly from the bubble. what happens to all my expo data if i cant get back and sell it in time? do i lose it because some retentives want an far more dull slow and grindy way to go out of the bubble exploring? or does my unsold data get converted to the new format and i find all i have is scans of the primary star existing, not the details of it even?

the changes make me want to explore less. going out of the bubble is just so slow, and the only thing keeping me going isnt finding random USS with nothing or thargoids in. its that when i get where i wanted to be in my 44ly max jump asp ex, i will then have a reward for probably a year of real time spent out there jumping and scanning until i cant take the boredom, with billions of credits to get the anaconda with the huge jump range i can replace the asp with.

if im going to lose data, then sure i have wasted hundreds or thousands of hours out there scanning and might as well dive into a star and spawn back in the bubble magically. right now i dont want to play AT ALL until i know what will happen to those of use who almost certainly have hundreds and thousands of scans, but wont have time to get back anywhere to sell them before this thing drops. even colonia minibubble is thousands of ly away.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

They clearly said in the livestream that the "HONK" in a new system would reveal only the main star. So I assume that we'll only see the main star in the system map.

we have eyes for that. and if my ship scanners cant detect the big ball of fire that we were aiming for and dropped out in front of without a honk, then i expect EVERYBODY bubble or not to have a 50/50 chance to smash into the star in instant death that cannot be avoided.

honking to find something we detect now due to close proximity is STUPID. unless we drop in right as systems edge, so we dont even see any stars as any larger than ones needing a hyperspace jump. thats going to stop explorations almost stone dead - nobody will make those big risky jumps - even fuel rats arent dumb enough to jump to stars where you dont have enough fuel left to reach the primary to refuel. i dont know if thats why yu need a jonk for the big unmissable ball of fire that your RADAR can see, because actually you dont land on the primary now. like to see the graveyard of players of quit the game trying to jump anywhere in alpha centauri tho if that is the system.

you cant justify jumping in on a star safely AT ALL if you have to discover the primary just because it wasnt explored before. it either works like that in the bubble too or it doesnt.

also if you need to honk and it only detects something you can see why bother with that scanner, period? or why not disable radar on ALL jumps EVERYWHERE until someone honks. Because its inconsistent and illogical otherwise, and the honk would be needed to identify where you were in a explored system also so the system could then paint the correct labels in system map and on the HUD. or do ships jumping to settled systems automagically know exactly where they landed relative to the primary without using radar or anything? cant have it both ways.

 

[Winterwalker]

im more worried because i just found out this change coming and im over 20000 ly from the bubble. what happens to all my expo data if i cant get back and sell it in time? do i lose it because some retentives want an far more dull slow and grindy way to go out of the bubble exploring? or does my unsold data get converted to the new format and i find all i have is scans of the primary star existing, not the details of it even?

In the livestream they stated that current discoveries stand, there will just be a new goldrush for first mapped to go with first discovered. (They also pointed out last night that nothing is being removed, only being added to)

First discovered will still exist, so the discovery database still exists, there's no reason you'd lose your data.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

In the livestream they stated that current discoveries stand, there will just be a new goldrush for first mapped to go with first discovered. (They also pointed out last night that nothing is being removed, only being added to)

First discovered will still exist, so that means the discovery database still exists, there's no reason you'd lose your data.

just to clarify: i have scans now. they have not been sold and will not have been by the time the update happens. so i STILL dont lose unsold scans? and ty for your reply

 

[Winterwalker]

just to clarify: i have scans now. they have not been sold and will not have been by the time the update happens. so i STILL dont lose unsold scans? and ty for your reply

Yes. I understand what you mean. Worry about it if it happens? But the chances of you losing that uncashed data, to anything other than a bug, are about nil I'd say.

you cant justify jumping in on a star safely AT ALL if you have to discover the primary just because it wasnt explored before. it either works like that in the bubble too or it doesnt.

I think the answer to that is you already know the star type - even if you've never been there before - in the galaxy map in game now. Stars are treated a bit different to cold bodies, probably because they're much more visible from a distance (and the handwavium for the hyperspace jump is that the FSD targets the biggest gravity well, the Star).

 

[Rojo Habe]

DISCLAIMER: As always, this is purely my view, and in no way intended to attack anyone who doesn't feel the same.


I know I'm in the mintority here, but the more I watched that livestream, the more my sense of dread increased. Dread is entirely the wrong word, by the way, as it's only a game and I do try to keep things in perspective. For the purposes of this post, however "dread" will have to do.

I like that everybody's discoveries will benefit the community: that's as it should be. If something ha previously discovered, this whould be reflected in the game and is all well and good. Except that previously we've been required to purchase this data from UC by clicking on the system icon in the galaxy map, so I'm assuming this mechanic is now defunct, and all discoveries are now instantly available to all (once sold). Raises the question though: if selling the data makes it instantly available to all, wherever they may be, why do you have to make the journey back to the Bubble to manually sell your data.

Adaptive lighting and colour grade: I really hope this looks better in the game, cos to me it just looks like they've turned the gamma up, and to my eye it is not an improvement. To be fair, they did say that the screenshots were old, so we'll wait and see.

Night view mode: Hmmm, I believe the term is "Meh". I'd much rather they fixed the headlamps so that their brightness isn't affected by how dark it is.

And then they showed the FSS.

I really can't put my finger on it, but I started to feel depressed watching this. Adam was sitting there showing off his knowledge predicting what was in the system, but it just left me cold. I really didn't understand what was going on and nothing I saw was giving me much incentive to learn. It all seemed a bit of a faff. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this is exactly what a lot of you have been crying out for, but it really didn't seem to be something that's for me: worse, it might put me off exploration altogether. This is unfortunate, and I am fervently hoping that trying it for myself in the Beta will change my mind.

At the risk of alienating myself from the majority of the community, the praise I'm seeing on this thread is bordering on the Pavlovian. I'm having trouble reconciling it with my reaction, which is one of reserved pessimism.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[dreampage]

I didn't really understand how this new exploration mechanic worked. I was watching, trying to understand what Adam is talking about, how he "predicts" what planets there are by looking at some vertical lines on the horizontal line. Honestly, I don't want to learn wave codes again. Also, I didn't really understand why you had to "tune" the scanner into various phases, why was it not enough to just turn the camera. I don't know how it will be all mapped to a console controller. Also, what if a planet is covered by the main star because it's directly behind it? Will we have to exit exploration mode, circle around the star then back to scanning? Also, if the given system is already scanned, does that mean the "honk" will not generate any money anymore? Since the planets are already there, albeit unexplored. The presentation was fine, I just had as many new questions as answers.

The mapping system with the probes seems to be fun but only for a while. I'm afraid it will get really boring after the 10-12th planet (see Mass Effect 2 for reference). I don't see the incentive and the content behind it.

 

[wstephenson]

I didn't really understand how this new exploration mechanic worked. I was watching, trying to understand what Adam is talking about, how he "predicts" what planets there are by looking at some vertical lines on the horizontal line. Honestly, I don't want to learn wave codes again. Also, I didn't really understand why you had to "tune" the scanner into various phases, why was it not enough to just turn the camera. I don't know how it will be all mapped to a console controller.

The tuning mechanic, and the energy spectrum, are used to allow the player to select certain classes of body they are interested in, and also to allow them to locate candidates in a 360 degree sphere relative to the much smaller viewport. Without it, you would have to fish around yourself blindly guessing which blurry blob might have an ELW under it, much like a five year old turns over cards in a game of memory looking for a match.

The horizontal line provided by honking is some kind of spectrum. Each class of body has a certain position in the spectrum. So icy bodies appear somewhere in the middle, asteroid clusters about a third of the way from the left and gas giants most of the way to the right. The height of the mark on the spectrum shows the total mass of the bodies in that class in the system.

Then you have the 'tuning' mechanic. You may be old enough to remember an analogue radio tuner . If so, this should be intuitive. Having 'tuned' your scanning reticle into a particular planet class' frequency, some groups of caret marks appear above the tuner bar, and radially around the scanning reticle. These indicate where to steer the scanning reticle to (also shown as an anonymous blurry blob on the skybox). The placement and symmetry of the caret marks around your reticle indicates when you have a good aim.

Having positioned the scanning reticle correctly, you zoom in and are rewarded with a pixelated view of the distant body, and its statistics (and further information about any surface PoIs). Found bodies increase the completion percentage and are removed from the original honk spectrum.

As far as gamepad controls go, they are shown towards the bottom of the FSS screen in the video. You'll need an X and Y axis to shift the reticle, another X axis to move the tuner bar, and a zoom button.

Also, what if a planet is covered by the main star because it's directly behind it? Will we have to exit exploration mode, circle around the star then back to scanning?

I would also like to know this. I hope occlusion does work like this!

Also, if the given system is already scanned, does that mean the "honk" will not generate any money anymore? Since the planets are already there, albeit unexplored.

Not sure about the honk, but scanning bodies again will still net money if the earlier player has scanned and handed in, just no first discovery bonus.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

The tuning mechanic, and the energy spectrum, are used to allow the player to select certain classes of body they are interested in, and also to allow them to locate candidates in a 360 degree sphere relative to the much smaller viewport. Without it, you would have to fish around yourself blindly guessing which blurry blob might have an ELW under it, much like a five year old turns over cards in a game of memory looking for a match.

The horizontal line provided by honking is some kind of spectrum. Each class of body has a certain position in the spectrum. So icy bodies appear somewhere in the middle, asteroid clusters about a third of the way from the left and gas giants most of the way to the right. The height of the mark on the spectrum shows the total mass of the bodies in that class in the system.

Then you have the 'tuning' mechanic. You may be old enough to remember an analogue radio tuner . If so, this should be intuitive. Having 'tuned' your scanning reticle into a particular planet class' frequency, some groups of caret marks appear above the tuner bar, and radially around the scanning reticle. These indicate where to steer the scanning reticle to (also shown as an anonymous blurry blob on the skybox). The placement and symmetry of the caret marks around your reticle indicates when you have a good aim.

Having positioned the scanning reticle correctly, you zoom in and are rewarded with a pixelated view of the distant body, and its statistics (and further information about any surface PoIs). Found bodies increase the completion percentage and are removed from the original honk spectrum.

As far as gamepad controls go, they are shown towards the bottom of the FSS screen in the video. You'll need an X and Y axis to shift the reticle, another X axis to move the tuner bar, and a zoom button.



I would also like to know this. I hope occlusion does work like this!



Not sure about the honk, but scanning bodies again will still net money if the earlier player has scanned and handed in, just no first discovery bonus.

sooo... basically, everyone trying to learn this in the bubble is dead. because it sounds like, especially for consoles and pc gamers like me who fly using a controller, that a hostile npc even will have killed you before you can back out of this complicated separate mode. also, you had better not do it while in supercruise aimed at the primary, or you'll wind up yanked out with damage. and taking heat damage.

but then again im not someone who thought exploration should take 50 times more of your time. im someone who will be put off exploring using this complex and time wasting mechanic entirely. and since exploring was tedious but still a little fun, just already took too long... im not sure this system will help explorers. everyone else who benefits, but not explorers. it nbasically makes exploration take so long, that nobody wants to spend the time doing it to earn enough to make it worthwhile - unless rewards go up at least tenfold even for previously explored systems.

and if a bug does wipe out my current scans, they cant be recovered, i may as well blow up my ship to teleport to the bubble and then see if mining is less fun too. i can see this making the game more combat focussed if so - because a lot of off explorers will be turning to that to vent frustration.

also if the ADS honk basically does EFF all now, why not dispense with it entirely? I can think of a lot of modules i would rather take than a costly, worthless piece of excrement just there to make a loud noise and do basically EFF all.