∞ probes?

[CMDR Redcrest]

Anything that involves synthesis even including infinite basic, synthesized better probes is not a solution. For non-Horizon players this would effectively turn planetary scans into a pay to win mechanic on the same level as Candy Crush & Co.

"Oh, you want to scan this planet faster, but all you have are the basic probes? Buy the 12$ Addon now to get instant access to the premium probes for 50% faster scanning!"

Is this REALLY what you want to turn ED in to?

I don't understand why anybody who has the base game hasn't bought Horizons.
If I'd bought a game, was enjoying it and saw an expansion for 10-15 quid in a sale I'd jump right on that!
Yes Horizons should become the base game whe the next paid update lands but are people really so parsimonious as to wait for that to happen?

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I wouldn't consider myself "happy" about synthesizing upgraded probes, but if it's not forced on me (and if like upgraded ammo, it wouldn't be), then I'm totally "cool" with it as a gesture of compromise. People don't mess with my gameplay, and I won't mess with theirs



Well I have an easy solution - INFINITE SRVs!! Now let's start a dozen threads and five polls on this new topic [haha]

imagine if SRV salvage was a thing... now that would be cool..... SRV blows up, gives a POI on planet surface that we can visit in our ship, fly down to planet, hover over SRV and then grapple and then pull into our hold. we could then use collected stuff to repair.

personally i would be fine if a mining laser became essential gear for all exploration builds, and as a 1 off on initial log in give all players the option to have a mining laser on their ship (and if all weapon slots are full then the weapon it replaces goes into storage)

way beyond the scope of this discussion however.

 

[Old Duck]

Seriously, SLFs can be synthesized (even Guardian ones) but SRVs not, what about that. :|

Oh I hear ya, and as someone else pointed out, SRVs cannot be refueled from our own ship's fuel tank, but probes are infinite. I could make us an entire list of contradictions in Elite Dangerous... Supposedly Frontier has a thick book on the Thargoids, yet they don't seem to even have a simple chart to reference when adding new things to the actual game. ED has the internal consistency diarrhea in the rain

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

Yeah, what is that all about?!? Why not refuel the SRV from the ship?

And why, upon ship destruction, do you lose your cartographic data, but not your materials?

I think that sometimes Fdev contort themselves into implausible situations because it wants to keep the game easily playable. That is a bad move. It is Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: Easy Does It or Elite: Chillout Session. The player should be confronted with real choices, that have real trade-offs, and scenarios where mistakes have real consequences. IRL space is dangerous; beauty and death are constant companions. A slight oversight or mistake can result in catastrophe. ED should give some feel of that.

I have a lot of materials that I have spent a LOT of time gathering losing them every time my ship is destroyed would be a tedious irritation not gameplay.
What next? Every time your ship is destroyed back to the freewinder?
I would suggest that such things would put so many people off the game that it would no longer be supported and then you don't get to play your way because the game would be dead.

 

[bitstorm]

Oh I hear ya, and as someone else pointed out, SRVs cannot be refueled from our own ship's fuel tank, but probes are infinite. I could make us an entire list of contradictions in Elite Dangerous... Supposedly Frontier has an entire book on the Thargoids, yet they don't seem to even have a simple chart to reference when adding new things to the actual game. ED has the internal consistency diarrhea in the rain

It's more they look at a feature, SRVs, and added that.

Then a year or two later SLF's come along and they added that.

The mechanics for SLF have changed because they're better than SRV mechanics. Frontier looked at it and opted for what they felt was the best solution in the context of other elements of the game.

The question is do they now go back and rework SRVs? At the end of the day SRVs work fine so why would they? Would SRVs be made better by making them like SLFs?

Is there really a great need to make SRVs like SLFs, or should Frontier work on something else.

 

[NeilF]

I wonder if a concession would be the option to synthesize probe ammo for a period/number of shots which say had improved coverage?

 

[Nutter]

Not bothered either way, unlimited, or pick up mats from roids or surface. As long as I do not have to refill often! 5,000 stock would mean I could do a fair few systems before having to hunt for a roid or Planet with the required mats. One set of mats should make at least 500 probes.

That said, I'm happy for my ship to create them as a by product of burning fuel, which will mean I have unlimited probes as long as I have fuel.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

It's more they look at a feature, SRVs, and added that.

Then a year or two later SLF's come along and they added that.

The mechanics for SLF have changed because they're better than SRV mechanics. Frontier looked at it and opted for what they felt was the best solution in the context of other elements of the game.

The question is do they now go back and rework SRVs? At the end of the day SRVs work fine so why would they? Would SRVs be made better by making them like SLFs?

Is there really a great need to make SRVs like SLFs, or should Frontier work on something else.

The main concern with SRV's is that there's not a lot to do with them at the moment during exploration. There's no real need to land on a planet so no real need to use them. Out of the Exploration context, also Planetary Scan Missions can be done with the ship only..
I wished to see more gameplay related to SRV in Q4 and then more SRV types of course....

 

[Tharrn]

Yeah, what is that all about?!? Why not refuel the SRV from the ship?

And why, upon ship destruction, do you lose your cartographic data, but not your materials?

I think that sometimes Fdev contort themselves into implausible situations because it wants to keep the game easily playable. That is a bad move. It is Elite: Dangerous, not Elite: Easy Does It or Elite: Chillout Session. The player should be confronted with real choices, that have real trade-offs, and scenarios where mistakes have real consequences. IRL space is dangerous; beauty and death are constant companions. A slight oversight or mistake can result in catastrophe. ED should give some feel of that.

Can't blame them for factoring in that they need actual PLAYERS to sustain the development of the game. A handfull of hardcore nerds won't do. Welcome to reality.

 

[bitstorm]

The main concern with SRV's is that there's not a lot to do with them at the moment during exploration. There's no real need to land on a planet so no real need to use them. Out of the Exploration context, also Planetary Scan Missions can be done with the ship only..
I wished to see more gameplay related to SRV in Q4 and then more SRV types of course....

You will though.

That's why we are getting a mapping mechanic, so there are reasons to go down.

For me the biggest issue with SRVs is they make you want to throw up.

 

[Stigbob]

Can't blame them for factoring in that they need actual PLAYERS to sustain the development of the game. A handfull of hardcore nerds won't do. Welcome to reality.

Calling anyone a nerd in a video gaming forum is a little self defeating.

 

[iFred]

Infinite probes is a big logic fail and it breaks - as so often - the Simulation part of the game. I would like to see scoopable material (e.g. from certain star types) or something similar. And it should be implemented before beta release. or make them 3d-printable from the fuel tank. No fuel, no probes. Doesnt make sense, but stops Breaking Immersion.

 

[Old Duck]

Is there really a great need to make SRVs like SLFs, or should Frontier work on something else.

If people get their way and make probes finite again, then limited SRVs will likely become the next hot topic... Making SRVs 3D printable like SLFs would take one developer an afternoon, but then the larger bays would become obsolete.

Now personally, I'm not a fan synthesis, and that includes synthesized SLFs. It's all magic and handwavium and counter to the supposed "scientific vision" of David Braben. But the game is what it is for the very reasons you state - it's a Frankenstein monster made over time from various parts coming from different developers with different philosophies... C'est la vie!

 

[Stigbob]

Infinite probes is a big logic fail and it breaks - as so often - the Simulation part of the game. I would like to see scoopable material (e.g. from certain star types) or something similar. And it should be implemented before beta release. or make them 3d-printable from the fuel tank. No fuel, no probes. Doesnt make sense, but stops Breaking Immersion.

Immersion isn't very important to a lot of players.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Immersion isn't very important to a lot of players.

indeed... but it is for a lot as well..... maybe i am woefully naive but i like to think that well thought out design can cater to both, immersive and internally consistent but at the same time "fun" as well. of course fun is subjective (so is immersion) so not all people will ever be happy.

TBH this is a done deal, i think it is all well and good chatting about this stuff for interest whilst we wait but i get the feeling FDs minds are made up, and on top of that there does appear to be a majority who want unlimited, so FD are on safe ground here.

honestly if i had my way the probes would be limited and NOT be synthesisable either.... but on the fringes of the known bubble there would be mobile depots where we can restock them (and other exploration gear), and sell back the UC data. The BGS would also offer missions to re-supply such mobile depots to keep them supplied with probes for the explorers, then as the known universe expands the mobile depots move out... (they could also supply exploration missions to pad out the systems which got missed and were unscanned....

also it would be at these points where would would download "new" UC data which had been uploaded by players.... this data would not be available until connecting to UC at either a starport OR one of these mobile depots.

what this would have done would be to slow down the expansion of the known galaxy.

but it aint my game, i am just putting this out there for hyotheitical chit chat.

 

[bitstorm]

Immersion isn't very important to a lot of players.

Immersion is also defined by players differently, there isn't one standard "immersion".

 

[Old Duck]

Immersion isn't very important to a lot of players.

If this is the case (it is not, assuming we are talking about ED players), then Frontier wasted their time with the Stellar Forge. They should have just "cheated" like No Man's Sky

I never expected StigBOT to become a fan of NMS, must be a bug in his programming! [haha]

 

[Stigbob]

indeed... but it is for a lot as well..... maybe i am woefully naive but i like to think that well thought out design can cater to both, immersive and internally consistent but at the same time "fun" as well. of course fun is subjective (so is immersion) so not all people will ever be happy.

TBH this is a done deal, i think it is all well and good chatting about this stuff for interest whilst we wait but i get the feeling FDs minds are made up, and on top of that there does appear to be a majority who want unlimited, so FD are on safe ground here.

honestly if i had my way the probes would be limited and NOT be synthesisable either.... but on the fringes of the known bubble there would be mobile depots where we can restock them, and sell back the UC data the BGS would also offer missions to re-supply such mobile depots to keep them supplied with probes for the explorers, then as the known universe expands the mobile depots move out... (they could also supply exploration missions to pad out the systems which got missed and were unscanned....

also it would be at these points where would would download "new" UC data which had been uploaded by players.... this data would not be available until connecting to UC at either a starport OR one of these mobile depots.

what this would have done would be to slow down the expansion of the known galaxy.

but it aint my game, i am just putting this out there for hyotheitical chit chat.

I can see both sides of it.

With probes I think infinite is only sensible though. Ship internal restrictions, non-horizons players and grind avoidance. Its just too messy to go any other way.

 

[Stigbob]

If this is the case (it is not, assuming we are talking about ED players), then Frontier wasted their time with the Stellar Forge. They should have just "cheated" like NMS

Its complicated by existing mechanics in this instance, and immersion is less important than fun to a lot of people. ED/NMS differences don't come into it.

You seem to have taken me off ignore again six or seventh time IIRC is this a conversation that's actually worth starting ?.

 

[Enderby]

I’m glad that FD have opted to go for unlimited probes.