∞ probes?

[Nazdakka]

I'm just going to assume that the magic factory in my ship that synthesises useful consumables out of rocks I found on the ground is responsible somehow and then forget about this whole issue.

 

[two quiet suns]

Ever wondered why scanners have so much mass?
Probes are synthesised on demand using fuel (which all explorers refill by scooping stars) and a a couple of grams of material held in the scanners of these huge ships we fly making them unlimited or at least a million probes before you have to replace your Scanners.

This material is replenished as part of the module repair process and your scanner will fail before you run out of usable probe mass.

Thank me later

 

[Lestat]

There are other options people. When David Braben was talking about Steller forge and space dust.

Space.com: What about things the simulation got wrong at first?

Braben: The night sky […] just looked way too bright. And so we then added more and more dust with a distribution where it was quite concentrated on the galactic plane, like a glorified planetary ring. If you look at the Milky Way in the night sky, particularly [the constellation] Sagittarius, you can actually see that the middle section is dimmer than the outer, bright section. You need such a lot of dust to absorb, or reflect, that amount of light. So we've added all that dust. And that's proper empirical science in the sense that we're getting it to match the sky.

I am tossing ideas. Other than the lazy mode.

If we had the right amount of Probe ammo + Space Dust density (Not Materials). Some areas will be less dust. Maybe have Astroid belt help replenish the Probes in less dense areas. This work for Non-Horizon players as well as players who are flying Barebone.

To make thing easier for people who want to do things faster They will need mining laser for either Horizon or Non-Horizon players can use an asteroid field.

For players who are going to be exploring POI on the right planets. They might want to use SRV and just collect from the ground while heading to a POI. Depending on the Planet/Moon should be faster than anything else.

We can also factor in Stars that might produce dust more than light to increase Probe regeneration. Planet or Moons in that system might have more dust to regenerate probes.

Then we also have Gas Giants and such and what do they have. If they had the right stuff for the probes.

Frontier could use different size Surface scanners and such to determine what they pick up. So what we currently have might just use galactic dust. But could be engineered to use for faster regeneration of probes.

At least I am tossing ideas. It might make people go to a planet they might not look at because they are cheap otherwise.

To move it to probes...

Given something NeilF said I have a feeling it might be similar with probes. That at the end of the day most players will drop into a system, scan it and maybe probe one body only, then sod off. Probe use will be really low.

While some extreme explorers, will want to map EVERYTHING, in every single system. Probe use will be very high.

So you can have this situation, where the vast majority of players who it would not effect anyway end up removing a mechanic from the people who might want it and who it would effect. (the hardcore explorers)


It's a shame to think features can be decided by people who aren't effected by a feature.

I think this would only really come out by actually testing the thing for a decent amount of time.

Maybe you should do it look at some people ideas instead of asking for Infinity mode. That seems to easy. A little drama in exploration would kill the Boredom of exploration. I am not asking to have it happen every Few systems. I am asking something to kill the boredom or exploration and yes I am one of those explorers that Explore the whole system. I spent 2 years in the deep. Every system fully explored. I have killed the boredom using a secondary account combat and trading.

 

[NeilF]

We just don't want you guys sneaking one past us. Hey look FD, everybody here wants finite probes. See how loud me and my 4 buddies are. Make the change please.

Who's "you guys?"

I've been on both sides of that fence now, with me leaning back over towards finite now if the mechanics to produce them can be made sensible enough.

 

[Lestat]

Who's "you guys?"

I've been on both sides of that fence now, with me leaning back over towards finite now if the mechanics to produce them can be made sensible enough.

I think the best idea is to point out good ideas. I don't mind hybrid. When both idea mix. With drawbacks, if it easy mode using materials for probe making and Infinity being made as a hard mode. Using common sense for exploration.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I have this theory (it's just a theory!) that (generally) people who wanted delayed ship transfer, are the people who don't use ship transfer.

Then you would be wrong. I wanted timed (not delayed, nothing is delayed) transfer and I use it.

 

[NeilF]

There are other options people. When David Braben was talking about Steller forge and space dust.

I am tossing ideas. Other than the lazy mode.

If we had the right amount of Probe ammo + Space Dust density (Not Materials). Some areas will be less dust. Maybe have Astroid belt help replenish the Probes in less dense areas. This work for Non-Horizon players as well as players who are flying Barebone.

To make thing easier for people who want to do things faster They will need mining laser for either Horizon or Non-Horizon players can use an asteroid field.

For players who are going to be exploring POI on the right planets. They might want to use SRV and just collect from the ground while heading to a POI. Depending on the Planet/Moon should be faster than anything else.

We can also factor in Stars that might produce dust more than light to increase Probe regeneration. Planet or Moons in that system might have more dust to regenerate probes.

Then we also have Gas Giants and such and what do they have. If they had the right stuff for the probes.

Frontier could use different size Surface scanners and such to determine what they pick up. So what we currently have might just use galactic dust. But could be engineered to use for faster regeneration of probes.

At least I am tossing ideas. It might make people go to a planet they might not look at because they are cheap otherwise.

Indeed - This is my question mark at the moment.... How to best generate new probes!

If we assume you can have a stock of ammo of say 200, and each planet on average takes say 8 to 100% cover, then that's 25 worlds that can be fully "probes" without worrying about more ammo.

And we also need to remember - and this has changed my view on the "infinite matter" - that you (seemingly) know exactly which worlds require probes. ie: The FSS tells you which have features that require probing. So you'll only be using significant numbers of problems (IMHO) if you're scanning every world you can (even those without features of interesting) for CRs, or your out exploring for a long time. And I think it's more than fair that these should need to "pay" for more probes.

So then as you mention, we're simply down to the mechanic and balance to create more probes? So here's the ones I'm aware of then (including your ring dust one):-

• Materials/crafting - Using materials found on planet surface (or while mining etc) to synthesize more probes.
• "Fuel scooping" around gas giants to generate/build more probes.
• "Fuel scooping" in particular ring types for dust to generate/build more probes.
• Slow regeneration? - ie: They slowly replenish anyway.

I'm definately more on this side of things at the moment

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Having thought about it more - I'm still perfectly fine with infinite probes and think FDEV should just remove the infinity symbol and just plough ahead with what they've shown for the mapping probes.

 

[Arkadi]

Wow, this topic...

Are there really so many people around who want to complicate things, that this thread keeps going?

Probing a planet will need a finite resource anyway: our time!

Besides probing a planet needs us to spend a good amount of time anyway, do we really need to spend even more time on scooping/scavenging materials to synthesize those probes?

Is this really adding any form of new gameplay? Don't we have enough of this material scavenging gameplay in game already?

I am totally pro infinite probes! Don't unnecessarily complicate things.

 

[NeilF]

Having thought about it more - I'm still perfectly fine with infinite probes and think FDEV should just remove the infinity symbol and just plough ahead with what they've shown for the mapping probes.

I'm fine with it too then, just as long as we're totally honest then about the gameplay so if we then hit the efficiency target/score using our infinite probes, we then get a Nintendo'esqe music hit of some sort

eg: Something like this...

[video=youtube;FvJjWFQvZaM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvJjWFQvZaM[/video]
*joking*

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I'm fine with it too then, just as long as we're totally honest then about the gameplay so if we then hit the efficiency target/score using our infinite probes, we then get a Nintendo'esqe music hit of some sort

eg: Something like this...


*joking*

I'd be all up for that

 

[NeilF]

Wow, this topic...

Are there really so many people around who want to complicate things, that this thread keeps going?

Probing a planet will need a finite resource anyway: our time!

Besides probing a planet needs us to spend a good amount of time anyway, do we really need to spend even more time on scooping/scavenging materials to synthesize those probes?

Is this really adding any form of new gameplay? Don't we have enough of this material scavenging gameplay in game already?

I am totally pro infinite probes! Don't unnecessarily complicate things.

So with that line of thinking we end up with...?

Infinite fuel? - Why complicate things, so let's have infinite fuel? Why put in the choice/decision/balance/effort to consider fuel while travelling?

Infinite ammo? - Why complicate things, so let's have infinite ammo? Why put in the choice/decision/balance/effort to consider ammo while fighting?

Infinite probes? - Why complicate things, so let's have infinite probes? Why put in the choice/decision/balance/effort to consider probes while exploring?

And let's remember, (seemingly) in minutes, you know exactly which planets in a system even need probes used on them. It's entirely likely, you arrive in a new system, and within a minute(s) you know you need not shoot a single probe at any planet in it (as they have no POIs). So the only reason you would, would be to get "discovered by" or exploration CRs. And wouldn't it seem fair if there was just a tiny choice/decision/balance/effort associated with this?

ps: I'm not suggesting a huge amount of effort to replenish probes. But just a simple logical considered nod to it. eg: Having to go and "fuel scoop" in certain types of rings. So it's just a simple consideration to "juggle" while exploring. ie: You spot such a gas giant, so utilise it while there to top up your probe ammo. Done!

 

[Stigbob]

I think the number of players doing that would be tiny enough that they could be handled by support on a case-by-case basis.

If we are going on popularity finite is at 10% so disregard it.

I have this theory (it's just a theory!) that (generally) people who wanted delayed ship transfer, are the people who don't use ship transfer.

The people who do/would use ship transfer are likely in one or more of these groups either, social players, players with very little time on their hands due to real life priorities, people who aren't that focused on realism.

That theory sounds like rubbish to me, possibly because you are just trying to infer things about other people based on flimsy assumptions. Its more likely just a personal preference.

I went with delayed transfer yet I use it frequently it just seemed more fitting to me. I either have a laugh in my jump taxi which is set up for mat gathering, or take the ship I want in the first place. I also set transfers going at the end of a session so its there when I come back. No problem at all.

It also had no effect on ship balance or other players current activities so it was an easy thing to offer up as majority vote with no negative sideeffects.

I don't see an issue there.

Johnny galactic circumnavigation will get updated modules which can launch probes, regardless of whether he has to stop and collect mat's to re-stock his probes.

Unless he suddenly needs mining gear way out in the black and his favorite exploration ship doesn't have any spare slots. In which case he's knackered and FDEV have to pointlessly redo all the ships.

Edit : and all the paintjobs in case the new extra mining laser slot causes tantrums cos the cover doesn't fit perfectly on them all.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

ps: I'm not suggesting a huge amount of effort to replenish probes. But just a simple logical considered nod to it. eg: Having to go and "fuel scoop" in certain types of rings. So it's just a simple consideration to "juggle" while exploring. ie: You spot such a gas giant, so utilise it while there to top up your probe ammo. Done!

I'm fine with "the DSS passively collects material as you fly through space".

 

[NeilF]

I'm fine with "the DSS passively collects material as you fly through space".

Understood. But surely we're after gameplay which rewards good thinking, planning and playing?

The FSS now tells you exactly which planets to probe. You can now go to that exact planet and fire away with probes, which are now infinite in number. None of that sounds particularly tricky or time challenging or time consuming does it? So, the challenges in this gameplay loop would currently seem to be:-
1) Using the FSS efficiently - ie: Being rewarded time wise for knowing how best to use it.
2) Using the probes wisely - ie: Targetting them well to use as few as possible to hit the "Nintendo Efficiency Bonus"

Now consider if we had 200 ammo of probles. Now suddendly using less instantly is a reward! And if you could either synthesize more or fuel scoop more in certain rings (with a fuel scoop) the effort to generate more is minimal as long as it's done wisely/well!

ie: You've now introduced another reward:-
1) Forward planning taking just a few materials with you on a long voyage to synthesize more probes.
2) Spotting and stopping at appropriate rings enroute to "fuel scoop" more probes.

Playing the game well, will mean you have probes when you need them at minimal effort. Playing the game badly will mean potentially running out/low on probes and going out of your way to get more.

ps: I fully understand why some folks can see infinite probe ammo as the sensible solution (I did initially). Personally, I'm coming to the conclusion we just need as many means of rewarding good gameplay, and penalising bad gameplay as possible. And while not significant, infinite probes could be missing such an opportunity IMHO. And yes, it is only a minor thing! I agree!

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

• "Fuel scooping" in particular ring types for dust to generate/build more probes.

I like this!

Let's consider this option too...

So you can collect common materials on planets and also refill probes by flying through rocky/metallic rings (not icy ones) and metallic asteroids belts.
Flying through rings would refill probes in 1 minute but you have to fly at maximum speed (100% throttle) and close to asteroids, making the process more funny, otherwise the refill stops. It's not grindy but still you have to do it. It looks balanced to me...

The ring option would perfectly fit with non-horizons player.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Understood. But surely we're after gameplay which rewards good thinking, planning and playing?

The FSS now tells you exactly which planets to probe. You can now go to that exact planet and fire away with probes, which are now infinite in number. None of that sounds particularly tricky or time challenging or time consuming does it? So, the challenges in this gameplay loop would currently seem to be:-
1) Using the FSS efficiently - ie: Being rewarded time wise for knowing how best to use it.
2) Using the probes wisely - ie: Targetting them well to use as few as possible to hit the "Nintendo Efficiency Bonus"

Now consider if we had 200 ammo of probles. Now suddendly using less instantly is a reward! And if you could either synthesize more or fuel scoop more in certain rings (with a fuel scoop) the effort to generate more is minimal as long as it's done wisely/well!

ie: You've now introduced another reward:-
1) Forward planning taking just a few materials with you on a long voyage to synthesize more probes.
2) Spotting and stopping at appropriate rings enroute to "fuel scoop" more probes.

Playing the game well, will mean you have probes when you need them at minimal effort. Playing the game badly will mean potentially running out/low on probes and going out of your way to get more.

ps: I fully understand why some folks can see infinite probe ammo as the sensible solution (I did initially). Personally, I'm coming to the conclusion we just need as many means of rewarding good gameplay, and penalising bad gameplay as possible. And while not significant, infinite probes could be missing such an opportunity IMHO. And yes, it is only a minor thing! I agree!

I'm fine with not having Yet Another Thing To Micro-mange

Perfectly fine with mats being passively collected by the New Improved DSS. Just remove that infinity symbol. Then let's enjoy the game.

 

[bitstorm]

Maybe you should do it look at some people ideas instead of asking for Infinity mode. That seems to easy. A little drama in exploration would kill the Boredom of exploration. I am not asking to have it happen every Few systems. I am asking something to kill the boredom or exploration and yes I am one of those explorers that Explore the whole system. I spent 2 years in the deep. Every system fully explored. I have killed the boredom using a secondary account combat and trading.

One person accuses me of wanting infinite probes, then a few pages later another person accuses me of wanting finite probes. [ugh]

As I've said many many times I don't know until such time as I've tried it.

I can still discuss the topic without going hard either way and making up my mind as many have.

I am currently leaning to some non-infinite solution though, so it's even weirder your saying I want infinite and I should listen to ideas. :|

 

[NeilF]

I'm fine with not having Yet Another Thing To Micro-mange

Perfectly fine with mats being passively collected by the New Improved DSS. Just remove that infinity symbol. Then let's enjoy the game.

Fine... I'd personally have game loops that reward good game choices... And penlise bad ones...

 

[bitstorm]

Then you would be wrong. I wanted timed (not delayed, nothing is delayed) transfer and I use it.

Eh? What is the difference.

You're just trying to argue semantics?