Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
The Star Citizen Thread v9
- Thread starter Yaffle
- Start date
Funny you say that, DayZ is a functioning game. SC for gaming, is what Hyperloop is for transportation
I think he is pointing at how people here are gloating. This topic is for ridiculing a game, every setback is welcomed with big cheers. If something goes well, discussion is immediately shifted to other stuff. Kaocraft just says what many, many people have consistently been saying: the way Star Citizen has gotten under people's skin here is every bit as weird, obsessed and quite possibly psychologically unhealthy as 'the Cult' people here like to bash every single day, every single week, every single month, for over half a decade. There isn't a "whole group of people keeps running through the streets telling everyone how great the food in that restaurant is going to be". The overwhelming opinion in gaming culture is that SC is the next Duke Nukem forever. Almost noone follows this project, but its on the periphery as that comical failure. Gamers just ignore it for the rest, because there are many games and there is no real reason to be so obsessed about SC. There are two very small groups of people that actually pay attention: the obsessed 'cult' who believes SC is the next best thing since sliced bread, and the people obsessed with 'the cult'. Both claim to not be obsessed at all, and to bystanders it is just comically absurd.
Yes, it tells you a small group of people here are absolutely obsessed with Star Citizen. [haha]
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Harsh criticisms? Sure.
Ad hominem attacks? Oh there's those too of course. But you're lumping them both into the same basked and say: "See all the terrible things here!"
No. That's not gonna fly. For YEARS the defenders of SC have berated other people. For years every other game was dismissed in a tidal flood of comments by SC supporters.
"Why do you even bother wanting to play Space Game XZY? Haven't you heard of Star Citizen? It's going to wipe the floor with all other games! It's going to be the last game you'll ever need!"
For years we had to endure the that came out of that fountain of promises. Thousands of players in one area! A galactic economy! MMO! But also private servers! Mods! Virtual Reality support! (It's just an easy add-on, remember?)
What's that? Multiplayer isn't in AC at release? Oh you misunderstand, it's there but only few people can play it yet (actually nobody). Oh look, three months later and we're beginning to let the first people play. Oh my it's a flustercluck? Let us patch this for a few years.
What's that? Flying isn't fun? It's just really sophisticated and perfect, so it's perceived as bad! But we're not done yet anyway, let us patch this some more.
What's that? There's some weird kind of autoaim and the game actually aims for you now? That's totally a fidelity feature! Don't hate on this, it's to make the game more playab... I mean fun. More fun.
What's that? Star Marine? Oh silly you, it's already in the game! Oh wait no it isn't. Ok now it is! But you shouldn't worry about that because Star Citizen!
Look at how hyperrealistic Star Citizen is! All planets are 1/6th scale and there's a total 100 stars in the galaxy. Maybe someday, that is.
Elite Dangerous is surely never going to be worth playing. Buy a ship in Star Citizen! Think of the value! Melt your old ships at a loss and upgrade to an even bigger ship! Get LTI while it lasts, final orders! Oops it's gone. Oops it's back again!
No we totally didn't steal all that concept art. Maybe some competitor snook their logo into our art, it wasn't us we swear!
And we're totally not pay 2 win. After all, there's no winning in a game with economy and ship to ship combat anyway, right?
All these things aren't unfair attacks on this mess of a game project. They happened. They're facts. All those chickens now come home to roost. For years SC fans have been among the most toxic and obnoxious on the internet. Now, many years and broken promises later, you are dealing with the backlash.
Which is not to say that ALL is bad. The premise is great and you'll see a lot of ED players wanting to walk around stations and whatnot. There's an allure to that, and for sure SC also has some really great art assets. There's aspects of the latest version that are very promising.
But the execution is terrible and watching Obsidian Ant trying to enjoy this mess was really an experience all prospective buyers should see before spending a dollar on this.
Yeah the negative gloating exists, I'm not gonna deny it. However, it's kinda hard not to with the rather constant stream of ridiculousness coming out of CIG. There's definitely a line between calling a spade a spade, and obsessing about a game's failure. I for one like the concept of multicrew in SC a lot more than in ED, and I'll be the first to criticize ED for stuff that is lackluster and disappointing. I have not been banned from these forums here for ever voicing a critical opinion of the game, which were sometimes quite harsh. Meanwhile in CIG-Land, you have to preface every critical post with a preamble that validates your status as an SC supporter, you have to state that you have great faith in CIG and the game, that you love it with all your heart and that you think it'll be the greatest game ever made - before you are allowed to state your criticism or suggestion for improvement.
For years, whenever this thread got a bit more quiet, it was suddenly attracting sockpuppet accounts that tried to peddle their referral codes, while singing the highest praises and making further unrealistic claims about what the game would do and be. ED fans don't do that in the SC forums because... well, there is no grey market. We have our own problems of course, which SC doesn't have yet because there's no game yet.
I agree that sometimes the jabs could be toned down here. But never the criticism - or the praise, when deserved!
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Star Citizen running on Linux via Wine and DXVK https://www.twitch.tv/videos/326762553
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/9s68vb/star_citizen_running_with_wine_and_dxvk/
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/9s68vb/star_citizen_running_with_wine_and_dxvk/
It's The Great Space Race of its generation.
We got ED running too.
And dxvk is sort of wonder, because in short time they got almost everything running that OpenGL translator can do, especially shader part. It has some performance issues, but considering how new project is...
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...which is by now well deserved because Star Citizen begins to look more and more like a scam rather then an honest development project. And the "tone" didnt degenerate by itself. most of the "harsh" words as you put it are direct reactions to white knights and shills and of course a fair share of trolls coming here to have their fun.
Star Citizen refuses to come to a completion. It refuses to deliver results that would reassure the majority of observers of its capabilities. It continues to be the source for a lot of controversy and comedy.
If by "most" you mean a small part then you would be correct but exaggeration is a thing on the internet
People here disagree on a lot of things but its mostly details surrounding the project because frankly, for a game that claims to be "open development" shamefully little is known when it comes to facts. CiG refuses to make clear statements and instead hides behind 10 minute monologues talking a lot while saying very little. Most people here have come to the conclusion that Star Citizen is already dead and that should be the end of it. But you know...while the thread does calm down on its own in times of spare news we always can rely on random people coming here to initiate yet another round of repetition either by providing fantastical claims, attacking everybody participating in this thread or looking for an angle to refute and initiate dissent.
Maybe it looks like an "obsession" for you but I put that down to your lack of experience or participation on this thread. Obsession certainly plays a role....but I dont see any of it demonstrated by most on here. We rather talk about the obsession that can be observed when it comes to Star Citizen...not quite the same. I mean I admit that I have this thread bookmarked and visit it daily because when it comes to news (and comedy) regarding Star Citizen its a steady source of entertainment. And of course it enables me to share my view and DISCUSS various aspects with people who (usually) dont need to attack me in order to bring their own views across. I wasnt aware that kind of behavior already qualifies as an "obsession" but okay.....
If somebody acts shamefully and in a disrespectful way then it should be "okay" to call that out. Thats not "spitting" on good names as you put it but while you yourself criticize people at large generally with your post you blame people on this thread for doing the things that you show in your own words. I have a negative view on Star Citizen, CiG in general and Cash Roberts. I didnt develop this view because I want to hate on something or just bash people. Rather the actions and results I was able to observe over the years have strengthened my opinion in this matter. And the occasional random attack by people like you does nothing to change my mind. It only shows that the crowd of pro-SC defenders is full of people who are readily willing to ridicule and attack others personally over something like a video game. And usually these people then turn around and cry "haters" when they receive a taste of their own medicine.
I certainly see the Youtube-syndrom floating around a lot. Thats when you watch YT videos then leave a short remark which is usually meant to antagonize or expresses a rather "drastic" view. I get it....youtube really isnt the platform that supports discussions. The tools are lack-luster and the underlying mechanisms prevent me from giving a detailed account...oh its possible but it takes serious effort to write up and then follow such a string of argument. Also YT is mostly unmoderated or so it seems. It does have a rule-set when it comes to behavior but I dont see that rule-set being enforced or reflected in most comment sections I visit.
Theres always that trouble-maker who likes to stir things up by taking an extreme opposite stance or who simply points and laughs instead of sharing his own view.
And of course you have this group of people here as well (trouble-makers....). Posting short and hostile entries usually directed at the participants here rather then the topic. The ones who re-visit often are a source of entertainment as well as information. Nobody here has any answers. Many try to get facts together but even if you come across any you face open delusion in some cases and mostly heavy mind-gymnastics trying to counter obvious facts and truths.
This place is what you make it. "You" being a participant. If you criticize the lack of objectivity and accuse people of making personal attacks then I m sorry to tell you that you really didnt do anything with your post to improve the matter at hands.
And I am sure you realize that there are a select few people out there who have a personal and financial interest to hype Star Citizen and shut up any dissent. Take a guess which group you put yourself in
I agree that occasional posts are gloating but thats part of the internet and you can always decide for yourself if a post is simply that or adds to the discussion. You dont need to judge or condemn everybody in here. Toumal makes a great observation that most of the "gloating" is simply backlash for all the previous poking and irritation caused by some select few. And thats not even the problem....the problem is that these same people are just bad losers and cannot admit anything wrong or past mistakes when it comes to Star Citizen. Moving the goalposts, outright refusing to admit errors, distracting the course of discussion and in some rare cases outright tantrums.
Star Citizen announces best game ever. SC defenders walk around various sites telling people how their own games suck and SC will be the best all or predict massive improvements in the "next patch". CiG fails to provide a result that matches previous announcement or a patch that simply fails at delivering. People react by posting "hey, where is your uber game NOW??"
Obsession? Hate?
I dont think so. But of course if you cannot bring up a valid defense you move the topic.
In the early days I have followed various persons of interest on the internet. One of them was the often-mentioned warlord. Since these humble beginnings I have come to realize that a lot of the stuff coming from that direction is pure gloating or antagonizing instead of valid information or facts. Most of it is well deserved IMO but frankly, its a bit tiresome so I dont visit his site all that much and whenever I read a statement of his I put up my "Warning, has personal beef with CiG" glasses or simply dont care.
I have identified a few trouble-makers on this very forum which I decided to simply ignore instead of reacting to provocations or outright delusions. If you think this forum is a waste of space and caught in a repeating loop of hate and self-reinforcement why do you even read it in the first place? Its not like this subforum and this thread forces itself on you. My point is you can decide to participate and if you opt to only post a one-liner criticizing others while not providing any insight into your own opinion or to the topic at large then thats on you. I ve done this with the RSI and you dont see me going there to poke the hornets nest. Neither do I feel the urge to go there to "shut them up". I simply opt to not visit it at all apart from some select posts which others dig up and provide a link.
Personally I value posts in this place. Many are well-thought opinions and a lot of people go the extra mile digging up links and verifiable information when challenged. Of course many are negative towards Star Citizen but then again...they usually provide context and reasons as to why that is. Most important tho is that this place is frequented by people who simply dont "hate". If you bring up an overall negative or hateful post regardless if directed against satan himself or Star Citizen....you WILL BE called out on it if you cannot provide evidence or proof. Watching many in this thread reminds me constantly to double-check my own words to avoid slipping into rage-mode or force me to re-evaluate my own view on matters.
When it comes to my last question I note that the only thing listed so far is the negative example by CiG on how to NOT run a company or game development. I have given this question serious thought (limited effort I admit) and simply cannot think of anything that would qualify many praises and claims provided by SC defenders. It might be that I refuse to credit CiG for words and announcements alone and require actual proof for any of it....i can see how that makes me a "hater" (.....not). And while latest patches in Star Citizen certainly have been an improvement fact is that these perceived "improvements" are only recognized as such if you compare them against their own abysmal past. Most if not all of them still fall very short on expectations and often belie previously given statements.
None of the technologies used or demonstrated in Star Citizen are in any way remarkable, ground-breaking or genre-defining. The size of the "game" while not small doesnt match the claim of gigantic and remains an example of stark contrast between dream and reality. Worst of all....while I admit that Star Citizen looks good in places I see the current level of visual fidelity as the end cap when it comes to whats possible for CiG. The good looks are not "early days" or "just the beginning". It represents an absolute focused effort by the company which values shine over quality and will probably remain on this level or get worse when the development progresses.
Star Citizen had its moments lately when it seemed like they really start to get their things together and pull the cart into the right direction. But again....all of these tame attempts simply pale when compared to the full-mouthed claims and hype which dominated this topic for years.
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"We aren't obsessed, you just have no real arguments. I have identified some FUDsters who are just here to cause trouble, but I am on to them. And if you really think we are so bad, why do you keep reading this and posting about us? We dont have a problem, you have a problem! Just go away!"
The fun part is that just by looking at these words you just typed I couldn't tell if this was from Spectrum, r/StarCitizen or this topic. [haha]
"Now let me finish another +-2000 word post, one of many hundred such posts, about this game I have only a fleeting interest in. I am not obsessed, I just literally write thousands of pages about a single computer game on a subforum read by a handful of people."
Listen, there is nothing even that wrong with being obsessed about Star Citizen. But this constant "Look at those weird SC-fans!!!!" rhetoric combined with an absolute 100% complete lack of any self-awareness just boggles the mind. But it is an absolute goldmine to a psychologist.
There is, actually. It's inherent in the very word you chose to use.
By the way, could you possibly respond to any of the points he made rather than just resort to various fallacies and implied accusations?
I quoted the part I found most amusing. If you have different parts you want to talk about, you do that. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor inclination to respond to each book he posts on a line-by-line basis. Anyway, I just noticed (as have many others before) how close the rhetoric here is to that you fine folks spend attacking over and over again. If you'd rather ignore that and go after the messenger again, be my guest, but I am not that interested in it to be honest. Just pretend I dont exist, or put me on ignore, if it makes it easier to pretend this is a normal topic, where non-obsessed people talk in a totally different way than 'those weird people'. Whatever you need.
FWIW: I said 'that wrong'. Of course the obsession some have here is wrong on some level, but it isn't that wrong you cant just admit it and be done with it. Most people are obsessed with something to some extent, no need to get upset.
Another promise met ,well done Chris Roberts. If you wait long enough someone else does it.
Community should mod in VR and the rest of the stretch goals soon enough.
So you had no actual response — you just felt obliged to make accusations because… no reason, really.
Well, that's good to know: you're more interested in going after the messenger than the message.
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
Funny you say that, DayZ is a functioning game. SC for gaming, is what Hyperloop is for transportation
I was more referring to the development issues both games had, which also DayZ had plenty off, but yes, you're correct at least DayZ in 0.62 is a playable game.
Ha! You are always perfectly fine if people here post about random people on completely different forums ("Haha, look at Joe blobbers!" "Haha, vertisce is weird!"), but pointing something out about how people right here, right now, in this topic discuss SC is suddenly completely off-limit? Get out of here man.
Interestingly, DayZ was in development since 2012, and for a long time considered to be a game that would definitely never become a playable game. An excellent example that the more certain someone is how the game will unfold before the cards are dealt the less likely they are to have a clear and open mind. Which goes both ways.
Even more interesting is that neither side ever defines the criteria of 'playable game', so ultimately everyone will always be right I guess.
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No. That's just some more nonsense you've invented because you have no argument.
If you're posting here, why not respond to the posts that are… you know… right here, rather than just run some aggressively accusatory meta-commentary? Why are you so incapable of actually engaging in the discussion going on as opposed to just acting as a fallacy showcase — doubly so in this case when the very thing you're complaining about was actually in the post you refused to address?
There's also a third group: the group that keeps reading/posting on this thread to constantly point out how awful/useless/pointless it is, and how other posters are, obviously, obsessed. Sleutelbos, since you're the prominent member of this group, I'll have to point it out: it's tiring how you keep sidetracking this thread to discuss posters as opposed to the game as you argue anyone should. It's always the same thing. You lie low for a while then it's yet another coming out attacking posters. Last time round you were even putting words into people's posts for which you have failed to produce any proof afterwards. Frankly, I'm not quite sure whether your aim is to try and bait people in getting banned or getting this thread locked once and for all. Either way, it's frankly in poor taste.
This thread is what it is. Your social opinions won't change neither people's perception of the game, nor how they feel about it's progress (or lack thereof, depending on where you stand). Yes, failure is amusing to some people in a certain context. If you can't understand that, you need to get out more and meet people. It's... sort of common to laugh at things. Anything. Heck, that's even how some of us cope with real tragedy.
If this thread is really so awful, you may just want to stay clear out of it. Here are a couple alternatives that you may enjoy considering they have a very different tone to this one:
Spectrum official community Hub
Star Citizen subreddit
While I'm not participating in the two above, I browse through them every now and then. They're far from perfect, but there's some good stuff to be found too, you should give it a try.
If, for some reason, you decide to keep sticking around, would it please be possible that you start leading by example and discuss the game rather than the local posters?
This thread is what it is. Your social opinions won't change neither people's perception of the game, nor how they feel about it's progress (or lack thereof, depending on where you stand). Yes, failure is amusing to some people in a certain context. If you can't understand that, you need to get out more and meet people. It's... sort of common to laugh at things. Anything. Heck, that's even how some of us cope with real tragedy.
If this thread is really so awful, you may just want to stay clear out of it. Here are a couple alternatives that you may enjoy considering they have a very different tone to this one:
Spectrum official community Hub
Star Citizen subreddit
While I'm not participating in the two above, I browse through them every now and then. They're far from perfect, but there's some good stuff to be found too, you should give it a try.
If, for some reason, you decide to keep sticking around, would it please be possible that you start leading by example and discuss the game rather than the local posters?
Haven't played it, but watching this video, there's a very accurate comment by one of the players in the group: it feels like Gary's Mod with way less props. The wonky physics, the weird/jumpy character animation, I couldn't quite put a game name to it, but yeah, Gary's mod is probably a good fit. So would be goofing around in ArmA3. It is also striking how little flying spaceships seems to feature. I have a hard time seeing all this getting fixed/smoothed any time soon, it's just... all over the place... That said, it's not to say it can't be fun, I play far wonkier games than that, but the premise of ground breaking immersion/fidelity/whateveryoucallit seems a step too far from where I stand.