Planetary landings

[EAGLE 5]

Finally got posted

well that's you. i want to explore a galaxy and the cities itself.. and the cities i'm talking about 2 of them size of gta maps that are hand crafted with little procedural generation in the city itself, where you can spend hours in. that would literally be a space gta. the whole point of the "gta" aspect is something for everyone not just you. some people bought gta 5 to fly, some bought it to race, other to shoot stuff and of course everyone bought it so they can do all that. that's why its the highest selling video game in history....it made a billion off of 150 million dollar development...... so obviously making a space gta is business worthy. and if ellite doesn't make it someone will. because there is a huge demand for it.
and they have been working on the planet part of it for some while now. and david braden is way better than no mans sky.....

I finally got one of the images I was referring to earlier.

I think (not sure) i may have also seen a bigger version of it but the sketch was meant to show how you could imagine cities be laid out for the different factions.

 

[sinsro]

....but yes, I think Elite's cities and people will look much more like GTA's as the point of the game isn't to wander through peoples houses individually but to see everything at a distance as we take off and land in our spaceships, and eventually walk around specific space port areas.

No way! The city of GTA V was hand modeled by a huge number of artists, at great expense. There is no way a procedurally made city can match that. It will be repetitive, with limited textures and detail.

And keep in mind Elite is not just going to make one city on Earth in one age of time, it has to make all cities in all continents on Earth, plus the billion other planets out there with their unique civilizations, nature, atmosphere and so on.

I am guessing we will see some fairly generic graphics, which will look OK when you fly through at high speed, but a bit repetitive and bland if examined in detail.

 

[ykza5]

What about the way of landing? I mean de Anaconda seems like a pretty heavy ship for those small vertical thrusters. I think it would be cool for the large ships like a Conda or a type 9 (or any of the other heavies that come with release) to include a smaller more admospheric friendly ship that we can take down to the admosphere. After all we do see this a lot in movies and tv shows

 

[Gorodd]

dude.. sorry to burst your bubble but I think your expectations are way.. way.. WAY out of proportion

GTA V cost 250+ $ million to make, don´t you think they would have been so smart to use the "magic wand tool procedural generation" to create the whole game with a snip of a finger?

I mean seriously, tone down your expectations or the disappointment will hit you like a 100 ton brick wall

Just not sure if you can draw a direct correlation between how much is invested in a development vs. productivity and quality of outcome - this in my opinion (and I am an experienced development manager having led large teams of developers).

In a nutshell, if you can get together a relatively small but experienced group of people who know the same development/delivery methodologies and development processes - give them great leadership and vision (i.e. David Braben) - great place to work and inspired (i.e. team and inidividual commitment to quality and delivery to deadlines of work is above industry norms) then you are pretty much able to ignore the norms on cost to large degree.

Example: note SC's delivery record and their according budget relative to Frontiers on ED.

David Braben is a super geek, he knows what he is doing, he knows intuitively where he wants this game to go - if anyone can do this for far less, I believe, it is he.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

And keep in mind Elite is not just going to make one city on Earth in one age of time, it has to make all cities in all continents on Earth, plus the billion other planets out there with their unique civilizations, nature, atmosphere and so on.

Earth will almost certainly be handcrafted to a point anyway, with cities (future) and land masses approximate to what we have now (circa 3300).

Same will go for the other planets in our Solar System.

After that the majority (99.9%) of the rest of the galaxy will be procedural, with maybe a few landmark planets (Empire capital etc) that are hand crafted.

 

[Tinman]

No way! The city of GTA V was hand modeled by a huge number of artists, at great expense. There is no way a procedurally made city can match that. It will be repetitive, with limited textures and detail.

And keep in mind Elite is not just going to make one city on Earth in one age of time, it has to make all cities in all continents on Earth, plus the billion other planets out there with their unique civilizations, nature, atmosphere and so on.

I am guessing we will see some fairly generic graphics, which will look OK when you fly through at high speed, but a bit repetitive and bland if examined in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnWUp9JnLyc

 

[Armour]

Turn down the Braben hype machine! You don't have to glorify him before the fact, only to crucify him when it turns out that impossible puzzles don't have answers. He's not a politician.

I think he's a clever chap, who has recruited a lot of equally clever chaps (and chapesses). I think he/they will probably have some neat answers to deal with problems that a dummy like me would struggle with. But he's not going to beat mathematics. He's not Neo.

To me, the problem seems simple: either you artificially restrict the number of pilots that can visit any one planet simultaneously to reduce the multiplayer-related headaches, or you run out of resources (either bandwidth/memory/CPU). There's no getting around that whilst offering a consistent model to all participants, unless magic.

Instances in such circumstances are a problem - how about if I kill an NPC in one instance that someone else is communicating with in another? Should they be invulnerable in mine until the other guy leaves the scene in his version? Should the NPC simply drop dead mid-sentence in front of the other guy? Neither solution is acceptable.

They could make it law that all pilots must leave their armaments at the space port, and/or make the police omnipotent and omniscient, so that such problems go away. I would guess that such a solution would leave the FPS crowd up in arms (pun intended) that they weren't able to go all COD in the fish market or drive their tank across the schoolyard.

You can't win. I just hope that FD stick to whatever vision they have of first person gameplay, and make that fun, rewarding, and suitably complex. To try and please those people that haven't really considered what is possible, well that way lies ruin.

 

[NeilF]

Turn down the Braben hype machine! You don't have to glorify him before the fact, only to crucify him when it turns out that impossible puzzles don't have answers. He's not a politician.

I think he's a clever chap, who has recruited a lot of equally clever chaps (and chapesses). I think he/they will probably have some neat answers to deal with problems that a dummy like me would struggle with. But he's not going to beat mathematics. He's not Neo.

To me, the problem seems simple: either you artificially restrict the number of pilots that can visit any one planet simultaneously to reduce the multiplayer-related headaches, or you run out of resources (either bandwidth/memory/CPU). There's no getting around that whilst offering a consistent model to all participants, unless magic.

Instances in such circumstances are a problem - how about if I kill an NPC in one instance that someone else is communication with in another? Should they be invulnerable in mine until the other guy leaves the scene in his version? Should the NPC simply drop dead mid-sentence in front of the other guy? Neither solution is acceptable.

I don't see why NPCs and instances are different on a planet or in space. ie: Why not just have different instances on a planet's surface? A 100 players could be there, but only certain groups exist in the same instance?

 

[Armour]

I don't see why NPCs and instances are different on a planet or in space. ie: Why not just have different instances on a planet's surface? A 100 players could be there, but only certain groups exist in the same instance?

On a planet you will have a lot more people, relationships, and structures in place. If a random NPC pilot shows up in separate instances and gets killed in one but escapes in another, it doesn't affect the rest of the game, because nobody knows them, or cares, or is reliant upon them for anything. That dynamic will have to change when loads of them are together in settlements of varying sizes, or it will seem very odd. Actions will have ripple effects. When that begins to happen, do you keep the ripples consistent between instances or not? If not, I would argue that there is no real persistence going on.

 

[NeilF]

On a planet you will have a lot more people, relationships, and structures in place. If a random NPC pilot shows up in separate instances and gets killed in one but escapes in another, it doesn't affect the rest of the game, because nobody knows them, or cares, or is reliant upon them for anything. That dynamic will have to change when loads of them are together in settlements of varying sizes, or it will seem very odd. Actions will have ripple effects. When that begins to happen, do you keep the ripples consistent between instances or not? If not, I would argue that there is no real persistence going on.

Again, how is that any different to space combat (missions)?

I can kill the NPC ship right now and the same issue exists. And I suspect in (future) missions, you'll need to assasinate specific people/ships/pirates, so again, the same issue exists.

 

[Ruskodisco]

On a planet you will have a lot more people, relationships, and structures in place. If a random NPC pilot shows up in separate instances and gets killed in one but escapes in another, it doesn't affect the rest of the game, because nobody knows them, or cares, or is reliant upon them for anything. That dynamic will have to change when loads of them are together in settlements of varying sizes, or it will seem very odd. Actions will have ripple effects. When that begins to happen, do you keep the ripples consistent between instances or not? If not, I would argue that there is no real persistence going on.

i think you're taking the persistence to far. because honestly i appreciate the changing market, the changing and string like effect with missions. but you're talking about a random npc pilot...who cares? it's a random npc pilot.
and bro persistent universe doesnt always mean mulitplayer i mean it makes the game amazing but i sure hope it's not a big concern for ED development staff because i would rather have a better game than a better multiplayer.

I don't see why NPCs and instances are different on a planet or in space. ie: Why not just have different instances on a planet's surface? A 100 players could be there, but only certain groups exist in the same instance?

100 players is way too much for a planet because not only are you flying, but you have, ships, buildings, npcs that are flying driving, walking, and doing other things. and multiplayer is not the whole point of this game, its very fun but i don't really care about it other than sometimes with my friends or having dog fights with other people.
remember the whole point is to be able to fly your ship into the atmosphere and land onto a city then exit and go drive some vehicle....that is the ultimate space game...may even be he ultimate game......
but multiplayer in it really would'nt be that much of a step up for a good amount of people unless they actually want it...
and persistent universe doesn't mean always mean multiplayer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnWUp9JnLyc

dude if they did that. then went in and put in detail. and other hand crafted elements.....
omg..

Earth will almost certainly be handcrafted to a point anyway, with cities (future) and land masses approximate to what we have now (circa 3300).

Same will go for the other planets in our Solar System.

After that the majority (99.9%) of the rest of the galaxy will be procedural, with maybe a few landmark planets (Empire capital etc) that are hand crafted.

it's very possible to make a huge detailed procedural generated planet with handcrafted elements that would make it beyond amazing. and well worth a 60$ expansion.
would you not agree?

Just not sure if you can draw a direct correlation between how much is invested in a development vs. productivity and quality of outcome - this in my opinion (and I am an experienced development manager having led large teams of developers).

In a nutshell, if you can get together a relatively small but experienced group of people who know the same development/delivery methodologies and development processes - give them great leadership and vision (i.e. David Braben) - great place to work and inspired (i.e. team and inidividual commitment to quality and delivery to deadlines of work is above industry norms) then you are pretty much able to ignore the norms on cost to large degree.

Example: note SC's delivery record and their according budget relative to Frontiers on ED.

David Braben is a super geek, he knows what he is doing, he knows intuitively where he wants this game to go - if anyone can do this for far less, I believe, it is he.

that's what i'm saying!!
that and there is a HUGE demand for "space-gta"

What about the way of landing? I mean de Anaconda seems like a pretty heavy ship for those small vertical thrusters. I think it would be cool for the large ships like a Conda or a type 9 (or any of the other heavies that come with release) to include a smaller more admospheric friendly ship that we can take down to the admosphere. After all we do see this a lot in movies and tv shows

actually if you read the new newsletter it talks about a new star port that is this big sphere with a ring looking thing and its really expansive and you can put engines on it and move it....so maybe and i'm really throwing it out there you can maybe....fly it.... and they were talking about way bigger ships ones that you can put smaller craft like sidewinder, and eagle and all those ones in it....
so i think the anaconda is fine

No way! The city of GTA V was hand modeled by a huge number of artists, at great expense. There is no way a procedurally made city can match that. It will be repetitive, with limited textures and detail.

And keep in mind Elite is not just going to make one city on Earth in one age of time, it has to make all cities in all continents on Earth, plus the billion other planets out there with their unique civilizations, nature, atmosphere and so on.

I am guessing we will see some fairly generic graphics, which will look OK when you fly through at high speed, but a bit repetitive and bland if examined in detail.

i hope you give me alittle more credit than that brother
of course i know what went into that game but here is the thing....there is a huge demand for "space-gta" one that you can fly your ship into the atmosphere and land on a city.
and we have the technology. and people are willing to spend alot of money on this kind of game.
and i would say millions of people.
because would'nt you buy a expansion that costs 60$ of a detailed hand crafted and procedural generated city. that is on par with gta quality like city?

oh and about those other planets with different atmospheres watch this video, it's about procedural generated planets and space.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M

so that game is going to be sold at 60$ one time. and maybe have updates to stamp out bugs.

elite will be always updating and running as long as we buy expansions.
so you will have beyond plenty of planets to explore.
and along with a beautifully hand crafted and partly procedural generated tool you will be able to spend hours on these cities if you so wish.....