I min/max everything, I just try not to over specialize.
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I min/max everything, I just try not to over specialize.
Bob Lighthouse
Banned
You understand
This is a special moment Bob, treasure it.
You being a fool is hardly a special moment.
Are you sure about that ?
Survavibility is common to every activity in this game that take place in a cut throat galaxy. You can't do anything if you are stuck in rebuy screen because you don't kept yourself safe.
So yeah, if there was a trading only mode, a min/maxed trader loadout would be shieldless. But ED has more than a specific activity only.
With Min/maxing you are maximising aspects you need while minimizing those you don't according to game rules and mechanics. Do you need to survive as a trader or not ?
Also, Min-maxing the jump range does not mean you are in an exploration ship. It can be a taxi ship (without SRV/scanner etc) or a combat ship or any kind of ship. Same goes for survavibility through defensive modules as it is not restricted to combat.
A shieldless trader is a poorly outfit when you look to the game as a whole.
Play your own way within the framework of the game rules and mechanics that allow other players to play a different one.
Nonconsensual PvP does not exist in the PvP environment provided by Open (note : it does not mean it is PvP only).
...and that's why PvP player has all the advantage in the world - he is maxing on one activity only.
The fact that one can trade shieldless save for the threat of human intervention is pretty revolting, too, to be honest. It's my firm belief that catering to this low skill, low ability, lazy crowd of unmotivated players has more or less ruined PvE play. It's why we can't have engineered NPC's, for example, and why the Thargoid "invasion" is so laughably pathetic that it can quite literally be ignored, just for a couple examples.
Why wouldn't more highly skilled players (such as PvPers by definition) want to club everyone they see flying without a shield, or a particularly terrible build? Those guys are ruining the game, after all.
Oh I'm sorry that my playstyle that has nothing to do with you is actively and intentionally ruining the entire game for you
It's ruining the game for anyone who seeks to play with some skill, not just me. That's ok man, you play how you want to play though, and I'll play how I want to play
How am I ruining your gameplay when I am likely doing something that doesn't affect you at all in any way?It's ruining the game for anyone who seeks to play with some skill, not just me. That's ok man, you play how you want to play though, and I'll play how I want to play
How wasn't I clear enough in my post? Fdev made a choice to cater to people who refuse to adapt and become skilled, in other words "dumbing down" the PvE content to make it possible for players such as yourself to fly unshielded or otherwise properly equipped. Right? You can avoid the players who make your preferred gameplay style impractical by being in another mode, but the NPC's are everywhere, and in order for them to be a non-threat so players like you can stay in your comfort zone fdev had to nerf them across the board for everybody.
All jokes aside, this was a big BIG reason why I migrated over to PvP in the first place.
I'm going to leave the non-consensual thing aside. It's the OP's word not mine, and you clearly understand (but disagree) that it can be both interpreted in different ways and in some ways (perhaps to you) considered insulting. Freeform, or spontaneous, or rare & meaningful is where any contention lies - someone is attacked 'for no reason' and complains, someone flies a less robust ship and is mocked regardless of whether they planned to act as a distraction or just wanted to see if it could be done & learned something.
As I've mentioned several times now, I play in open, but I'm more of a thinker than a fighter, I think my way around challenges like how to get past a blockade and go there when it's quiet for example, or go in a ship that doesn't stand out as an obvious target. Usually I succeed, sometimes I fail but I always have fun.
It's not something I personally do but in normal day-to-day activities I could go for weeks without meeting an antagonistic player, and I can beat an interdiction attempt from an NPC. So I could take a shieldless T-9 with no extra hull armour, maximising it's jump range & cargo capacity (and therefore profit), and print money. It's rebuy would be something like 6mCr I think, I can cover than in less than an hour no problem.
So as an exercise in outfitting for a purpose, it works. I meet these players, I don't help them but I may use them to my advantage (ie as bait or a distraction so I can get through at their expense).
They earn more money, but are taking risks I choose not to take. Neither of us complain about the other.
The complaints that you see from these trader types are from a minority, just as a tiny minority of PvP players are hopelessly aggressive to the point of being obnoxious. I don't really want to be in the same instance or read the chat from these players any more than I do from the whiny shieldless trader. Nobody does.
Personally I have a minimum viability spec for Open, which the T-9 just about meets. It's based on my own experience, and I wouldn't take my T-9 (with about 1100 hull & around 300 shields IIRC) into a CG, but there are others that do. I'm much more likely to be found in a Cobra or some other small, fast, anonymous ship. Not min maxed, not unbeatable, and certainly not with massive shields.
If a player is more sociable and generally hangs around busier areas, there is more chance that they could meet a 'baddie'. And I suppose the more sociable player might be more likely to tell others they were just blown up by a baddie, which in turn is more likely to be interpreted as complaining about PvP, then the salt farmers I mentioned in my first post in this thread (post #3) just try to create as much of a divide as they can for the lulz. There's your problem. Not the shieldless trader or the gank squad
imo.
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I am morally obligated to agree with you, the NPC's are far too weak.
Yes. I'm not sure why you think this video proves something different.
I'm not flying shieldless (I even upgraded my shield recently - ha!), but I can understand why someone might. If you're going to be destroyed anyway, then you might just remove the shield and focus on something else - cargo and evading. If you're able to trade more, when you're finally destroyed, rebuy will not make much difference and you'll be still making profit.
edit:which is pretty much what Riverside just posted^^)
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You are very good at playing a PEGI7 game. Well done
I can understand the frustration that others are not as good as you at something you find relatively easy. I don't see why that has to be a bad thing. Be proud of how good you are after playing for thousands of hours
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A PvP player is min/maxing for an environment where hostile encounters with other CMDRs is possible or likely.
If this player is trading, they are min/maxing for trade, which demands enough protection to survive the trip to their destination.
If this player is exploring, they are min/maxing for exploration, which usually means they'll want to be able to keep their ship intact long enough to sell some exploration data.
...etc and so forth.
Only if there are no credible threats does min/maxing for a task involve neglecting defense.
I have never lost a non-combat ship in a fight I didn't start.
"Min-maxing is the character-building strategy of maximizing a specific desirable ability, skill, or other power of a character and minimizing everything else, seen as undesirable. The result is a character who is excessively powerful in one particular way, but exceedingly weak in others." - https://www.giantbomb.com/min-maxing/3015-128/
I can post other sources if needed
Quick side note - hearing from beta players that the new Thargoid Incursion scenarios are pretty nasty. Bring your A game or get ready to eat it bad.
Considering the effects such incursions can have on the BGS it may end up being a very interesting year.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
This whole conversation makes me want to dish out some non consensual PVP.
Just because people refuse to understand it.
Id rather exploit their feelings at this point because their brains aren't smart enough to click another mode.
G1 Feelings for G5 Tears.
Just because people refuse to understand it.
Id rather exploit their feelings at this point because their brains aren't smart enough to click another mode.
G1 Feelings for G5 Tears.
You are very good at playing a PEGI7 game. Well done
I can understand the frustration that others are not as good as you at something you find relatively easy. I don't see what that has to be a bad thing. Be proud of how good you are after playing for thousands of hours
Wouldn't be a proper Riverside post without at least 2x smart , passive aggressive comments buried within, eh? I'm not sure that the average player needs "thousands of hours" to run into the deficiencies of the average NPC, but as for me, I'm a slow learner.
How many different ways do I have to explain it? Catering to these people I'm talking about has directly and explicitly lead to a PvE experience that I find woefully substandard, regardless of how many hours it took for me to figure that out.
Not sure where you think that source, or any other vaguely credible one, is disagreeing with my statements.
If you are min/maxing a trader when you are trading in potentially dangerous space, you do not build a ship that is easily destroyed. You remove extras that are not conducive to hauling cargo or ship defense, like docking computers, or discovery scanners, or stupid gizmos like KWS. You take cargo racks in your big internals, HRPs and MRPs in your small ones. PDTs and heatsinks in your utilities and you make sure your core modules have some sort of integrity.
A min/maxed trader gets the the cargo to it's destination with the downsides that it's not going to be able to explore, bounty hunt, mine, or refuel people along the way.
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