State of balancing grandfathered Plasma Accelerators?

[Stigbob]

Feel sorry for you. you very much DID miss out; there's a reason people have kept multiple legacy god-mods installed as the new stuff cannot equal them in many respects.

There's also a reason they gripe about grinding till their eyes bled to get them in the first place and many of them burned out. They didn't have fun doing it and now they cling onto them whilst demanding FDEV remove them.

Min-max paper stats don't always translate well to the game, they definitely don't translate well to enjoying the game as can be seen by the constant "its fundamentally broken" salt from the same people.

Simply being able to switch experimentals on a whim in V2 is worth ditching them for.

 

[Aashenfox]

There's also a reason they gripe about grinding till their eyes bled to get them in the first place and many of them burned out. They didn't have fun doing it and now they cling onto them whilst demanding FDEV remove them.

Min-max paper stats don't always translate well to the game, they definitely don't translate well to enjoying the game as can be seen by the constant "its fundamentally broken" salt from the same people.

Simply being able to switch experimentals on a whim in V2 is worth ditching them for.

I'm afraid this is unlikely to be the view shared by most. There is nothing in the current engineering that can provide equivalent or even remotely equivalent benefit compared to that provided by 60% heat reduction on a focused or long range PA (nor are any of the specials something worth dropping such a huge bonus for), nor is there any way any more to fit a size 5 shield on a cutter, which is a massive advantage. There are also shield boosters with mass secondaries that can't be achieved any more, and lots of other things. Please, I like you stigbob, I love that you don't bite when people insult you, I don't want to get into an argument with you but...if you don't know this stuff, stop muddying the waters by saying the new stuff is just as good, because while it is in general, it's not in the cases that this thread was created to talk about, otherwise why would we bother?

 

[OBYOZ]

All non-core mods should be reset if the ship is destroyed.
Problem solved.
Your welcome.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm afraid this is unlikely to be the view shared by most. There is nothing in the current engineering that can provide equivalent or even remotely equivalent benefit compared to that provided by 60% heat reduction on a focused or long range PA (nor are any of the specials something worth dropping such a huge bonus for), nor is there any way any more to fit a size 5 shield on a cutter, which is a massive advantage. There are also shield boosters with mass secondaries that can't be achieved any more, and lots of other things. Please, I like you stigbob, I love that you don't bite when people insult you, I don't want to get into an argument with you but...if you don't know this stuff, stop muddying the waters by saying the new stuff is just as good, because while it is in general, it's not in the cases that this thread was created to talk about, otherwise why would we bother?

Most never ground them out in the first place. The old (bad) advice that was going around the forum for V1 god rolls was you need a minimum of 200 rolls to do one upgrade, I'm easy come easy go then and now so it was easy for me to ditch them myself.

I did some fairly extensive testing on heat buildup and the biggest deciding factor is time spent on target, if you are not shooting you don't build up the heat. You get more time cooling whilst maneuvering for a shot than you do through engineering.

So while the heat advantage of old PA's in an on paper facetanking competition is considerable, they just don't ever happen in the wild. Alpha strike against someone fleeing a gank is different but I'm not into that so I'm not bothered. Like the supposed advantage of the anaconda over the corvette on firepower it only works on paper because the anaconda's big guns are more tucked underneath where they are less use.

If you have a maneuverability advantage you are (probably) less tanky so your target can ignore you and escape.

If you have equivalent or less maneuverability you spend less time on target so you fire less often and the engineering heat reduction isn't as significant as the fact you are holding your fire to pick your shots.

I don't bite when people insult me because its just a video game that I enjoy so there's never anything to get upset about.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

You need to take the context in context, its not an all or nothing thing.

With all due respect, I'm sorry you're just clueless about this particular issue.
Anyone can see that based on your first post in this thread:

Grandfathered stuff will gradually disappear, you can't switch experimentals on them so they become more hassle than they are worth over time.

That you're so invested in posting in here is really bizarre.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Speaking as a PS4 user, It disappoints me knowing that there are weapons / / shields out there that I'm denied the option of using or even ever had the opportunity to get.
The PS4 was a late comer to the world of elite and all those users through no fault of their own have to settle for weaker less powerful, less usable option's. Come on FDev, level the playing field !

You were too slow or lazy.
I'm on PS4 and have low temp PAs, 2 c5 shield gens that will go in a Cutter and some other legacy mods that can't be replicated or bettered in the new system.

Yes, it sucks that FDev dropped the ball on half of the grandfathering issue.

You didn't miss out the new stuffs easier to get and better.

Please stop making up stuff.
It's not helpful.

 

[Aashenfox]

Most never ground them out in the first place. The old (bad) advice that was going around the forum for V1 god rolls was you need a minimum of 200 rolls to do one upgrade, I'm easy come easy go then and now so it was easy for me to ditch them myself.

I did some fairly extensive testing on heat buildup and the biggest deciding factor is time spent on target, if you are not shooting you don't build up the heat. You get more time cooling whilst maneuvering for a shot than you do through engineering.

So while the heat advantage of old PA's in an on paper facetanking competition is considerable, they just don't ever happen in the wild. Alpha strike against someone fleeing a gank is different but I'm not into that so I'm not bothered. Like the supposed advantage of the anaconda over the corvette on firepower it only works on paper because the anaconda's big guns are more tucked underneath where they are less use.

If you have a maneuverability advantage you are (probably) less tanky so your target can ignore you and escape.

If you have equivalent or less maneuverability you spend less time on target so you fire less often and the engineering heat reduction isn't as significant as the fact you are holding your fire to pick your shots.

I don't bite when people insult me because its just a video game that I enjoy so there's never anything to get upset about.

As someone who can manage my pips, I find heat to be the deciding factor in my PA dps over the length of an engagement. PvPers who take their stuff seriously will hit you each time they have both energy and heat overhead available, these ships can fly in any direction while pointing in any other (such is the secret to exceptional combat performance).

 

[Stigbob]

With all due respect, I'm sorry you're just clueless about this particular issue.
Anyone can see that based on your first post in this thread:

That you're so invested in posting in here is really bizarre.

Its a trivial internet spaceship discussion, the only bizarre thing is that you take any of it seriously.

Please stop making up stuff.
It's not helpful.

Different people have different opinions on things.

As someone who can manage my pips, I find heat to be the deciding factor in my PA dps over the length of an engagement. PvPers who take their stuff seriously will hit you each time they have both energy and heat overhead available, these ships can fly in any direction while pointing in any other (such is the secret to exceptional combat performance).

If and only if the target is still there. Nobody who doesn't want to sticks around in a fight they don't want to have, so this can only be an issue for PVP enthusiasts with their exceptional combat performance skills. Surely PVP'ers who take their stuff that seriously can agree to ditch things amongst themselves, or wake out on anyone who doesn't until they do.

Solution not problem.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Its a trivial internet spaceship discussion, the only bizarre thing is that you take any of it seriously.

I don't know why you think that diversion changes anything.
Pretty weak attempt!

Different people have different opinions on things.

I'm not talking about opinions.
It's objective, like, with numbers and stuff.

You are saying things that are objectively untrue.
Why are you doing that?

 

[Aashenfox]

Its a trivial internet spaceship discussion, the only bizarre thing is that you take any of it seriously.



Different people have different opinions on things.



If and only if the target is still there. Nobody who doesn't want to sticks around in a fight they don't want to have, so this can only be an issue for PVP enthusiasts with their exceptional combat performance skills. Surely PVP'ers who take their stuff that seriously can agree to ditch things amongst themselves, or wake out on anyone who doesn't until they do.

Solution not problem.

Now you're being deliberately obtuse in order to not give ground. Either that or you really don't understand how this stuff works, which I somehow doubt. Conversation over, I'm too busy to be trolled.

 

[Stigbob]

I don't know why you think that diversion changes anything.
Pretty weak attempt!

I'm not talking about opinions.
It's objective, like, with numbers and stuff.

You are saying things that are objectively untrue.
Why are you doing that?

Lets see your proof then.

Now you're being deliberately obtuse in order to not give ground. Either that or you really don't understand how this stuff works, which I somehow doubt. Conversation over, I'm too busy to be trolled.

Knocking over your own king isn't a victory.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

I wish the forums could let me unrep someone. This is 5 pages of sensible discussion followed by 4 pages of obtuse trolling and a few strawman arguments to aid with the trolling.

If the grandfathered stuff wasn't an obviously significant advantage, threads like these wouldn't even exist. Yet here we all are....

 

[Aashenfox]

Lets see your proof then.



Knocking over your own king isn't a victory.

It is in the battle of not getting drawn into a pointless debate for someone else's amusement.

 

[Stigbob]

It is in the battle of not getting drawn into a pointless debate for someone else's amusement.

I accept your surrender.

 

[Aashenfox]

I accept your surrender.

Call it whatever you want, I simply walked away from a discussion that was going nowhere.

 

[Stigbob]

Call it whatever you want, I simply walked away from a discussion that was going nowhere.

Combat logging then.

 

[Aashenfox]

Combat logging then.

I can live with it.

 

[Achilles7]

Now you're being deliberately obtuse in order to not give ground....

Hey, take that back; my good friend Stigbob doesn't have a disingenuous bone in his body - I think you'll find that it's not deliberate!

'Always got your back, Stig mate!

 

[Stigbob]

Hey, take that back; my good friend Stigbob doesn't have a disingenuous bone in his body - I think you'll find that it's not deliberate!

'Always got your back, Stig mate!

Thanks man, I appreciate it.

I especially enjoy it when people go with name calling/personal rubbish for a few pages then start complaining "you've made it all about you" after they did that.

Always nice to have a change.

 

[lenna]

Speaking as a PS4 user, It disappoints me knowing that there are weapons / / shields out there that I'm denied the option of using or even ever had the opportunity to get.
The PS4 was a late comer to the world of elite and all those users through no fault of their own have to settle for weaker less powerful, less usable option's. Come on FDev, level the playing field !

On the PS4 it will be a level playing field because you will never spawn with those that have weapons with an unintended balance advantage.

On the PC, FD should just nerf the older weapons already... but only after fixing the mess they are making of exploration.