What do you think about notoriety?

[johnliem]

Hello Commanders


What do you think about notoriety?

when someone kill another player like when they are in open, okay I can understand because you have done something wrong you got the notoriety,

but when we are in combat like in Conflict zone or in HAZ this kind of thing happend that we accindently shoot a clean vessel , I think the notoriety in those 2 area is really annoying, because we have to wait to play about 1 hour or 2 hours, to be able pay the fine,
just to go to station is already annoying, so what do you think commanders? do we need this in conflict zone or in HAZ.

 

[Para Handy]

................
Murderers should be executed.

 

[johnliem]

Yes in open, but not in conflict zone and Haz ;-)

 

[Ethaidan]

It's fine as it is.

You don't get notoriety unless someone dies. Stop shooting the wrong people, cmdr/npc makes no difference.

You don't need to 'wait to play', just move to a different system and carry on.

 

[Chaparral]

It's sort of a weird "time out" mechanic. You were bad, so your ship should sit in the corner. You really don't have to, but your ship does. Oh and you can park yourself on a pad, let the game run in the background (or go solo) while your timer counts down and go play something else.

It's a weak and convoluted response to the need for an OPEN PVE server.

 

[Ethaidan]

It's sort of a weird "time out" mechanic. You were bad, so your ship should sit in the corner. You really don't have to, but your ship does. Oh and you can park yourself on a pad, let the game run in the background (or go solo) while your timer counts down and go play something else.

It's a weak and convoluted response to the need for an OPEN PVE server.

I disagree. The C&P changes were explicitly not about PvP, rather about addressing the complete lack of punishment for criminal actions ingame. One of the most abused of which was the unfettered ability to commit murder (vs NPCs) in an effort to quickly affect a systems BGS. Given that, any PvE server would need the same system - to prevent a PvE exploit, nothing to do with PvP.

 

[Speedcuffs]

It's fine as it is.

You don't get notoriety unless someone dies. Stop shooting the wrong people, cmdr/npc makes no difference.

You don't need to 'wait to play', just move to a different system and carry on.

Don't have any problem with it.
Previously been suggested that Criminals with notoriety should be visible on Galmap. Which would be nice.[up]

 

[Factabulous]

but when we are in combat like in Conflict zone or in HAZ this kind of thing happend that we accindently shoot a clean vessel TO DEATH

FTFY

 

[Siobhan]

Don't have any problem with it.
Previously been suggested that Criminals with notoriety should be visible on Galmap. Which would be nice.[up]

With the shiptypes and ranks of their last 5 player kills... We'd soon see who the sealclubbers really are.

 

[Chaparral]

I disagree. The C&P changes were explicitly not about PvP, rather about addressing the complete lack of punishment for criminal actions ingame. One of the most abused of which was the unfettered ability to commit murder (vs NPCs) in an effort to quickly affect a systems BGS. Given that, any PvE server would need the same system - to prevent a PvE exploit, nothing to do with PvP.

You are absolutely spot on that there is a whole BGS dimension to npc murder that the C&P addresses. I imagine serial murder of NPC cops can be effectively deterred through the C&P system. However, it would be ignoring the elephant in the room to assume that C&P was not intended to curtail PK behavior as well. With respect to PK behavior, I don't believe the C&P system is effective.

I agree with Speedcuffs that notorious criminals should have a marker on the open map. Not for the whole bubble, but a 50ly radius would be nice.

 

[Siobhan]

that we accindently shoot a clean vessel ,

Ever heard of "trigger discipline"?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Yeah, it's annoying as hell especially when you can't pay your fines or bounties because of it. I dislike even more the anonymous access to a station.

 

[Brrokk]

It's good. Don't commit crime and it isn't a problem.

Since it was introduced I have the impression that the game has been "cleaned up" a lot. There are hardly any "I was ganked" threads compared to the situation before.

 

[Ethaidan]

You are absolutely spot on that there is a whole BGS dimension to npc murder that the C&P addresses. I imagine serial murder of NPC cops can be effectively deterred through the C&P system.

Yes... Notoriety! Great deterrent for people exploiting the BGS.

However, it would be ignoring the elephant in the room to assume that C&P was not intended to curtail PK behavior as well. With respect to PK behavior, I don't believe the C&P system is effective.

Not ignoring anything - PvP simply wasn't the target behaviour - because 'PvP' is such a broad spectrum, but some try to dumb it all down and pretend all PvP is the same and want severe draconian measures for any PvP activity. Bounties & Notoriety, unfortunately, are pretty much meaningless to many PvPers - Whether PP, BGS, piracy, or the dreaded gankers/seal-clubbers.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Speedcuffs that notorious criminals should have a marker on the open map. Not for the whole bubble, but a 50ly radius would be nice.

So do I, and I expect many others - something based on notoriety - that way sloppy shooters will not get caught up.

 

[Stealthie]

Hello Commanders


What do you think about notoriety?

I don't.

I have, literally, only noticed I've had it a couple of times when I happened to look at my stat's for some other reason, and then I've carried on doing exactly what I was doing.

Never worried about it, never been concerned that it'll impede what I'm doing or wondered about how long it'll take to decay.

 

[Stealthie]

Not ignoring anything - PvP simply wasn't the target behaviour - because 'PvP' is such a broad spectrum, but some try to dumb it all down and pretend all PvP is the same and want severe draconian measures for any PvP activity. Bounties & Notoriety, unfortunately, are pretty much meaningless to many PvPers - Whether PP, BGS, piracy, or the dreaded gankers/seal-clubbers.

See, this is just utter cobblers.

The only reason I ever saw for wanting a "C&P" system was as a deterrent to frivolous, non-consentual PvP - to create consequences for players who commit criminal acts.

Seriously, show me a thread where people are asking for a C&P system in order to regulate BGS/PP related stuff.
I have genuinely NEVER seen one.
The ONLY reason people ever asked for a C&P system is to deter criminal PvP actions.

And now we have a C&P system that doesn't do what people wanted, you're saying that wasn't it's intended purpose in the first place?

Maybe I need to hammer nails into my head until that starts to make sense, or something?

 

[iFred]

Remember the whole process - C&P was discussed in the forums for weeks. And nobody was talking - at any time - about notoriety.

The community was like wt…? as it was introduced.

Therefore: Notoriety = unlucky design decision and Major B/S.

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

See, this is just utter cobblers.

The only reason I ever saw for wanting a "C&P" system was as a deterrent to frivolous, non-consentual PvP - to create consequences for players who commit criminal acts.

Seriously, show me a thread where people are asking for a C&P system in order to regulate BGS/PP related stuff.
I have genuinely NEVER seen one.
The ONLY reason people ever asked for a C&P system is to deter criminal PvP actions.

And now we have a C&P system that doesn't do what people wanted, you're saying that wasn't it's intended purpose in the first place?

Maybe I need to hammer nails into my head until that starts to make sense, or something?

This is pretty much my thoughts on it also , any time i ever seen C&P mentioned it was in regards to player killers. I dont believe i ever saw any single mention of it being released to limit BGS manipulation from criminal activity.

Then again it was the PvP guys who said the only ones who will be effected by these changes will be PvE players and never a truer word has been said.

 

[bladebss]

If you accidentally shoot some one, its assault. If you then go on to kill them your a murderer.

If you get an assault bounty, you pack up your guns and get out of there. Go pay the bounty with IF like a good citizen and go back to what you were doing, and hopfully a bit more carfuly for the experiance.


The great sandro him self, said on multiple ocasions that the CnP changes were not intended to stop PVP or criminal activity but to provide more meaningfull consaquences.

The ATR were introduced to cartell exessive criminal behaviour buy chasing off (under threat of destruction), such offending individuals.

Players and npcs are not following different laws in the game and why would they? The pilots federation is not above the law.

Seeing how its sOOoo awful for people to get a fine of bounty even with out notoriety coming into play it seems the CnP works. Dont do the crime if you cant pay the time...


Now the CnP isnt perfect i will give you that, and notoriety can be troublesome at times i some times feel the cool down is a bit much especialy as it often means i cant seek revenge on my attacker as they are witing for there notoriety to blow over. But i can live with this.

Would be nice if criminal behaviour was more rewarding however.

 

[PeLucheuh]

See, this is just utter cobblers.

The only reason I ever saw for wanting a "C&P" system was as a deterrent to frivolous, non-consentual PvP - to create consequences for players who commit criminal acts.

Seriously, show me a thread where people are asking for a C&P system in order to regulate BGS/PP related stuff.
I have genuinely NEVER seen one.
The ONLY reason people ever asked for a C&P system is to deter criminal PvP actions.

And now we have a C&P system that doesn't do what people wanted, you're saying that wasn't it's intended purpose in the first place?

Maybe I need to hammer nails into my head until that starts to make sense, or something?

You are just biased regarding your expectations.

It is ok though, i will remind you some stuff. Go look back on the forum when 2.4 was about to drop (you can use the search function on the forum)
What was the reaction of a many people regarding fixing the "suicidewinder exploit" only for PvP and not for PvE ?

When 3.0 was discussed and C&P Forum feedback as well :
Many people wanted (FDev included as you can watch it here) the C&P to be applied on criminal activities in general, not toward a specific aspect of the game only. A lot of thread have been made in the FFF section.

The C&P system is exactly what people wanted : that players face consequences for their crimes.

The ONLY people who are not satisfied are those who were expecting the C&P to affect a specific part of the game only because they can't accept that anyone other than themself can play the game the way he wants within the framework of its rules and mechanics.