Beyond is great but please let the next updates focus on combat and PvP

[varonica]

PvP has had the majority of updates? Are you serious? Name one PvP update this year, name one!

Lets turn that around.

Lets put it this way, this has been the single major exploration update since I started playing, not just this year, but since horizons, and no plopping a few features on a planet or moon or extending the route plotter is not a major update. So, if this is the only major exploration update we have had since 2015, what have all the rest been? Tell us please, we await with bated breath. Irregardless of how many PvP updates have been put out this year for the minoroity of players who actually do genuine PvP, exploration should get a good two years of major updates to make up for everything that has been missed. I fully expect the next major update next year to be atmospheric planets, another boon to explorers, tell you what you can make a head start and commence complaining now, that'll save a bit of time.

 

[AP Birdman]

Lets turn that around.

Lets put it this way, this has been the single major exploration update since I started playing, not just this year, but since horizons, and no plopping a few features on a planet or moon or extending the route plotter is not a major update. So, if this is the only major exploration update we have had since 2015, what have all the rest been? Tell us please, we await with bated breath. Irregardless of how many PvP updates have been put out this year for the minoroity of players who actually do genuine PvP, exploration should get a good two years of major updates to make up for everything that has been missed. I fully expect the next major update next year to be atmospheric planets, another boon to explorers, tell you what you can make a head start and commence complaining now, that'll save a bit of time.

I'm not saying exploration should get no more updates. Even though I don't explore I can definitely see that exploration has been criminally under touched but PvP even more so.

Also, like I said before, I think open would be a lot less "toxic" if pvpers had something to do.

Another thing is that everyones focusing on PvP in this discussion but combat missions still SUCK! They're boring as hell and their payouts are garbage compared to ever other kind mission.

I'm not asking for every update to be combat based but I really hope that they do something this next year to add to it in some way. I don't see how asking for one update to focus on combat is too much to ask.

 

[Screemonster]

You used to be able to sit in an instance and farm cops for BGS numbers. Causing lockdowns. You could easily do this for hours on end with specific builds.

So the ATR counters this. It also gives people the time to still be stopped in other peoples systems, while giving the trader a little back up over time. The higher the notoriety the quicker and more harsh the response is.

So this is a built in defense for the single trader if properly engineered. And it also covers the "PVEer" Farming someones cops in a system without having to work for it. They cant idly sit by and grind against someone else.

The ATR is perfectly balanced. As it should be. In all modes. They really nailed that one IMO.

The only issue with the ATR imo is that the counter instantly resets if you high wake, so it pretty much only slows you down for a minute or so while you turn around and jump back. Which is fine for saving some trader from being murdered at a CG. I'm still of the opinion that the way to balance cop-farming would have been to just make only one murder per instance count for the BGS (ie. put it on the same terms as bounty-hunting) so "cops show up" is an incentive to get whatever you were doing done and then leave rather than "oh goody more targets".

 

[Guest193293]

Read the whole thread and I still don't understand what the people who play PVP want.

 

[AP Birdman]

Read the whole thread and I still don't understand what the people who play PVP want.

One simple thing would be some kind of reward. Some way of rewarding consensual pvp. Right now the only thing you get from pvp is a rebuy screen.

Beyond that, giving some kind of meaning to powerplay. A way to organize pvpers to get rid of this "I got shot in open for no reason".

 

[mant3z]

I think one simple change could make a huge difference.
CQC Arena where you can organise tournaments, 1v1 or wing fights with own ships and do not loose CR when fighting to death.
HOST player should decide if it's allowed to use Eng ships and define class of ships.

Or why just not unlock all ships, modules and eng upgrades for all, at least there will be a place where you can test whatever you want and have a lot of fun with PvP.

This game is so huge that actually you could have arena fight in Open Play, programmers know what's best solution

 

[Morbad]

I'm still of the opinion that the way to balance cop-farming would have been to just make only one murder per instance count for the BGS (ie. put it on the same terms as bounty-hunting) so "cops show up" is an incentive to get whatever you were doing done and then leave rather than "oh goody more targets".

I'd rather the concept of transaction be junked entirely and look at the actual effects of the actions in question; population lost, destroyed vessel costs, cargo tonnage lost, value of data/bonds/vouchers, etc.

 

[Mohrgan]

I'd rather the concept of transaction be junked entirely and look at the actual effects of the actions in question; population lost, destroyed vessel costs, cargo tonnage lost, value of data/bonds/vouchers, etc.

In effect, that whole calculation would be reduced to a transaction by a computer program. i.e. An Eagle loss would equal X, and a Viper III loss would equal Y, and so on.

 

[Screemonster]

I'd rather the concept of transaction be junked entirely and look at the actual effects of the actions in question; population lost, destroyed vessel costs, cargo tonnage lost, value of data/bonds/vouchers, etc.

That'd make sense but I'd worry that it'd make the problem of AFK-grinding even worse. Sitting in a high-res with a turretboat carrying a small amount of gold would let you rack up bounty vouchers at a stupendous rate - not to mention that sites with good farming spots like haz-res sites and compromised nav beacons would end up leading to massive amounts of inf disruption from people that are just bounty-farming. The one positive side of the transactional system is that everyone, even new players in their sideys, can have an effect without it getting swamped by that one guy in his cutter dumping millions of credits worth of bonds.
(if bounty spawns dropped in systems where the controlling faction had a high security rating that'd be interesting, but oh lord the salt that would happen when people lost their farming spots through overfishing. Maybe if bounty hunting had less inf effect if the system is already in civil liberty?)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

One simple thing would be some kind of reward. Some way of rewarding consensual pvp. Right now the only thing you get from pvp is a rebuy screen.

Beyond that, giving some kind of meaning to powerplay. A way to organize pvpers to get rid of this "I got shot in open for no reason".

There are so many basic fixes to this, I get your frustration. A mats drop would be a start, followed up by a constant bounty on anyone with a powerplay affiliation (amount based on combat rank). I also agree with those that say that powerplay should be open only and more PvP focused, even though I play solo myself. Isn't that what it's for?

As I have said before though, to update combat missions and PvP completely would need to be a focused update, which will annoy people, but a half job won't be any improvement here. I'm not sure if this is the right time given that there's still other things in a worse state.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I don't have any axe to grind, PvP is a legitimate part of this game, as is being able to 'kill' any other CMDR if the fancy takes you.
Someone earlier in the thread suggested a PvP flag, nothing wrong with the idea, that would enable the PvE players to do what they want also.

As for making PvP a 'profession' any suggestion how it is supposed to be implemented among 'consensual' players would be welcome...

That said, I'll keep on playing solo, thanks, as PvP is about as interesting to me as watching paint dry

 

[Havvk]

Dismissing a point, out of hand, because you perceive anti-PvP bias is completely counter productive. Examine the notion that what you are describing is a kind of petty extortion. "Give me what I want, or I'll have no option but to take stuff from you". How will that kind of argument encourage a closer look into the plight of Combat, and indeed PvP? All this sort of argument attains is a widening or hardening of the gap between the two points.

A boss of mine opened my eyes by saying to me: "Don't bring me problems, bring me suggestions". Suggest a way to integrate PvP into the game. Suggest a way to make PvP meaningful. Rather than expecting others to solve your problems. Your ideas may not gain immediate acceptance, but allow for debate and refinement. The refrain "I want" is often responded to with a "So what?".

PvP has had the majority of updates? Are you serious? Name one PvP update this year, name one!
And NO, ships that are capable of combat are NOT pvp updates.
PvP still has zero rewards and zero reason.

The reason players are getting blown up in their cargo ships so much in open is because pvpers are bored and have nothing better to do with their uber pvp ships. If pvp got a meaningful upgrade in the way that mining just got upgraded, a lot of pvpers would leave your cargo ship alone. Not all but many would stop griefing helpless ships if they had something meaningful to do.

It is in all players interest to give pvpers more to do. The more they're focused on something else the less they'll focus on the rest of you.

Also, if Fdev added some kind of meaningful pvp a lot more players would be willing to try it because right now there are zero incentives to give it a shot. The only thing you're guaranteed is a rebuy screen.

Hey Birdman, are you going to ignore that post Morhgan made directed at you? Or are you going to answer and provide good ideas on how to make PvP meaningful?



We are not going to do it for you, after all. You gotta pull your weight in this kind of stuff, or get left behind.

 

[Krash]

One simple thing would be some kind of reward. Some way of rewarding consensual pvp. Right now the only thing you get from pvp is a rebuy screen.

Beyond that, giving some kind of meaning to powerplay. A way to organize pvpers to get rid of this "I got shot in open for no reason".

I think your point is there's no way to pay the bills by PvP alone, compared to other professions. PvPers have to be well rounded players with a wide range of skills. As a PvPer, I spend a considerable amount of time merit farming (PvE), bounty hunting (PvE), pirate hunting (PvE), CZ massacre missions (PvE), and wing trade missions. This gives me the "free" time to go PvPing with my friends and afford the rebuys. I can't imagine any other way tbh.

 

[AP Birdman]

Hey Birdman, are you going to ignore that post Morhgan made directed at you? Or are you going to answer and provide good ideas on how to make PvP meaningful?



We are not going to do it for you, after all. You gotta pull your weight in this kind of stuff, or get left behind.

I must have missed it. Which one are you referring to?

Edit: oh, yeah. I'm not gonna waste my time with these "gimme what I want or else" posts. Nothing in my posts are attempting to demand anything and people who think like this are just pathetic and not worth my finger strength to argue with. Anything I say will just be twisted in the most negative possible way anyways. I've made my stance perfectly clear, there's no point in repeating myself over and over again.

I'll continue discussing with reasonable people but I'm just ignoring these absurd posts.

He has a point though which is why I've changed my tone from trying to argue with the nasty and absurd people on this forum and I'm focusing on moving the conversation forward instead.

 

[DukeIronHand]

I'd rather the concept of transaction be junked entirely and look at the actual effects of the actions in question; population lost, destroyed vessel costs, cargo tonnage lost, value of data/bonds/vouchers, etc.

Huzzah.

 

[Havvk]

I must have missed it. Which one are you referring to?

Edit: oh, yeah. I'm not gonna waste my time with these "gimme what I want or else" posts. Nothing in my posts are attempting to demand anything and people who think like this are just pathetic and not worth my finger strength to argue with. Anything I say will just be twisted in the most negative possible way anyways. I've made my stance perfectly clear, there's no point in repeating myself over and over again.

I'll continue discussing with reasonable people but I'm just ignoring these absurd posts.

Well you're right one one thing, you did make your stance perfectly clear.


That's why many disagree with you

 

[AP Birdman]

Well you're right one one thing, you did make your stance perfectly clear.


That's why many disagree with you

Well duh. I would be utterly shocked if everyone on this forum agreed with me.

There's no doubt that this game has a very large player base that wants nothing to do with combat. Thats kinda why I love it so much. There's no other game that I've ever played that has such diverse play styles.
There's players that have never fired a weapon in game before, left the bubble in their aspx and have never been back since. Then there are players (like myself) that have literally only done as much exploring as the game forces you to (5k ly for Palin) and do nothing but run around and shoot stuff.
That's utterly amazing to me.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Well duh. I would be utterly shocked if everyone on this forum agreed with me.

So, what does 'improved PvP' mean? What is it that you want to see? What new gameplay do you seek?

(Please link any previous posts where you feel you've already explained this.)

 

[AP Birdman]

So, what does 'improved PvP' mean? What is it that you want to see? What new gameplay do you seek?

(Please link any previous posts where you feel you've already explained this.)

This was on the previous page:


One simple thing would be some kind of reward. Some way of rewarding consensual pvp. Right now the only thing you get from pvp is a rebuy screen.

Beyond that, giving some kind of meaning to powerplay. A way to organize pvpers to get rid of this "I got shot in open for no reason".

Also the second half of my OP has an idea of an arena type system they could add.

 

[Mohrgan]

I must have missed it. Which one are you referring to?

Edit: oh, yeah. I'm not gonna waste my time with these "gimme what I want or else" posts. Nothing in my posts are attempting to demand anything and people who think like this are just pathetic and not worth my finger strength to argue with. Anything I say will just be twisted in the most negative possible way anyways. I've made my stance perfectly clear, there's no point in repeating myself over and over again.

I'll continue discussing with reasonable people but I'm just ignoring these absurd posts.

He has a point though which is why I've changed my tone from trying to argue with the nasty and absurd people on this forum and I'm focusing on moving the conversation forward instead.

I suggested that your position, that Griefers (something you have self identified as) arise because there is no systematic use for PvP. This type decides that since their goals and desire aren't perfectly met, you will simply have to take it on others, because they are bored. I call this petty extortion, and go onto describe that idea with a short sentence in the voice of someone taking that stand. I have no trouble describing this attitude as childish play ground behavior.

I asked that you take a moment to reflect on that notion. But more to the point of this discussion I asked that you take the effort to make some real, actionable suggestions as to what would accomplish what you want. This all seems too much for you, as you'd prefer to just dismiss ideas that don;t suit you. I can live with that.

I have suggested, repeatedly, a voucher system, that would reward all involved in PvP encounters, would offer influence over the BGS and PP thus bringing meaning and impact to PvP. What do I get? Crickets... It could be argued, that I have done more for your cause than you have, yet you feel the need to dismiss my calls for a positive debate. I can live with that as well. I can only hope that someone takes up the mantle of suggestion and negotiation to help bring about some improvement to the current situation.

o7