Why is Combat still a Low Paying High-Risk activity?

[Dillon Fallon]

As a player that has acquired his 10 ships through a combat focus, I have found no trouble paying my way. Admittedly, I have no interest in the large pad ships, but I can have any ship I want. My experience shows me that combat ships, on the whole are less expensive with respect to 'hull' costs. I can make pockets full of credits on a 3 to 3.5 mil credit re-buy. I don;t see much risk at all.

At this stage, I agree, there is no risk now. I need to be flying an unengineered ship to have a npc drop my shields. When you're coming up the ranks however, it is going to be quicker and easier to buy, outfit and engineer a Python that can haul 180t of cargo and not do much else than to have an effective combat ship to do assassination missions against a Corvette.

The other point is, whilst you're happy with the money you make I could use a trade Python to earn 10 million far quicker and easier than I could doing any form of combat.

 

[fus roh potato]

The risk in any of the professions will work along the same curve. The more experienced you are in trading, the less risk you see, but you trade in higher values of cargo, and ship. And, I did qualify my point as being related to an established Commander, but you can't remove the risk of making a misjudgement or mistake in any profession. I just don;t think combat Commanders have a greater economic, nor material risk in E|D.

Yeah we get it. You think you're some kind of combat pro and don't see what the risk is about.

Yet you're not strong with reason my friend. You're blatantly ignoring the obvious differences in risk and effort required. In the time you earned your 10 ships through combat (lol), I could have built a fleet of 50 A-rated Cutters through hauling alone without ever learning a single nuance of combat. A PvP veteran on the other hand will not need to learn anything to perform hauling.

 

[fus roh potato]

i think they don't wanna say as it points out a huge issue with the game, that managed to survie the last attack... shield

My guess would be,
- build a shield tank Imperial Cutter
- give it some cargo
- go to a haz res...
- park it up and get into a fighter, and hide out of range in cold mode (as many models off as you can)... then go afk

add a power-play benefit/ mission on there was well, free money.

added, i know it works, when they didn't agree to nerf the shield, i made a shield tank anaconda and did the same in combat zone (bad me, but had to test it)

That kind of combat will pay very little and isn't the type anyone is trying to promote. Further it's not possible to do in a CZ. Your SLF would die rather quickly. No need to make stuff up.

 

[Arkadi]

Ehm, if you subscribe to the military you usually don't expect to get very rich very fast. You might be happy to get paid and survive another day...

Sillyness aside,

I have the impression that in Elite you have two currencies. One is credits, the other is fun. You just can't have both at the same time.

But maybe this is even more silly. Seems to late for me to be serious. I am not sorry.

 

[Mohrgan]

The problem isn't the money, it's how the pay is compared to the other activities. Factoring in Risk, Cost to outfit, Rebuy and Knowledge.

You might not have a problem and I'm not saying that you should. I'm only pointing out the inconsistent error in payout for professions in the game. The math doesn't make sense to me.

Can we agree that Combat is on the lower tier of the paid activities in the game compared to the rest? That's my issue.

Combat is also on the lower tier for cost of entry, and re-buy. The price of ammo is negligible, especially when compared to cargo/fines. This subject was opened as a 'risk v reward' dilemma, I'm not convinced. Even considering an absolute value comparison, I think it fails due to combat's lower cost of entry/re-buy. We combat pilots can easily make our way concentrating on fighting.

 

[pato]

i just post to see if my sig works

 

[Mohrgan]

i just post to see if my sig works

It looks great.

 

[Sooden]

That kind of combat will pay very little and isn't the type anyone is trying to promote. Further it's not possible to do in a CZ. Your SLF would die rather quickly. No need to make stuff up.

Not making it up... make it worth my while, and when i get back to the bubble, i will make a video. takes time to upload videos and i would have to do it 15 min segment. As you are sure i'm making it up, i say, 1 billion in cargo if i prove you wrong? after all what you gotta lose? if i'm making it up.

Although doing it in CZ is no longer a good way to make money, since changes in mission, i wonder if it still is in RES areas...SO i'm not sure what cash you get for it, or the best area for it, but i know it can be done, as i have done it.

I will guess you have got the wrong end of the stick. You don't let the SLF do the work, you let an NPC run your big ship (engage at will)... maybe glance back at the screen now and again to see all is okay, or have the sound up.

before you try and bend your words... you said ''Further it's not possible to do in a CZ. Your SLF would die rather quickly.'' This relates to it not being possible because the fighter would die in a CZ... before you try to say the argument was about profitability.

So if you wanna take me up on the offer. I will show myself using a shielded anaconda (and its not 100% max) but good enough.. setting it up in the CZ, move my ship a good distance away and stick back (a.f.k - away from keyboard - not having to take action for the progress i am making.. sure the SLF may get blown up now and again, just mean setting it up again...sometimes it can go hours with no interaction needed)

or maybe you just worried that im attacking the topic of sheilds.... I don't like being called a lair (''No need to make stuff up''= telling a lie) and happy to prove i'm not

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Combat is also on the lower tier for cost of entry, and re-buy. The price of ammo is negligible, especially when compared to cargo/fines. This subject was opened as a 'risk v reward' dilemma, I'm not convinced. Even considering an absolute value comparison, I think it fails due to combat's lower cost of entry/re-buy. We combat pilots can easily make our way concentrating on fighting.

I will disagree with you on that one. BIG TIME! There is a WIDE WIDE Gap in costs for combat, trading and mining. (not including exploration as I'm lazy.)

Trade Cutter
7A Framshift
6A Shields
2 size 8 Cargo racks
7D power plant
7D Power distributer
7D Life support
7D Thrusters
7D Sensors
2 size 6E Cargo Racks
6C Fuel Tank
5E Cargo Rack
4E Cargo Rack
Cost: $283,145,935

Mining Cutter
7A Framshift
6A Shields
2 size 8 Cargo racks
8C power plant
7A Power distributer
7D Life support
7D Thrusters
7D Sensors
2 size 6E Cargo Racks
6C Fuel Tank
5A Limpet
5A Limpet
4E Cargo Rack
1 huge Pulse
2 Large Pulse
4 Medium Mining Lasers
Cost 314,047,030

Combat Cutter
Everything A rated
Mirrored Armor
Class 8 Shields
Class 6 Fighter
8 Shields boosters
Not even being done with this we're already over $1,000,000,000 in credits and over 67,000,000 in rebuy...

And it doesn't matter what YOU personally build, I'm giving you numbers based on what Elite prices things and what the Devs expect players to buy and build...

Combat Players are not getting 1 billion ANY TIME soon compared with the other activites in the game. They'll get there, yeah, but I would believe with the prices of some of the combat oriented internals in the game, they need to get there just as quick/quicker than some of the other ones as the other ones don't need as much credits to build their ships.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Combat Players are not getting 1 billion ANY TIME soon compared with the other activites in the game. They'll get there, yeah, but I would believe with the prices of some of the combat oriented internals in the game, they need to get there just as quick/quicker than some of the other ones as they don't need as much credits to build their ships.

Tunnel vision, mate. I just told you I was pulling in about 2 billion a day this week. But you're all like la la la I can't hear you.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Tunnel vision, mate. I just told you I was pulling in about 2 billion a day this week. But you're all like la la la I can't hear you.

I already said it's not about how much you made or make. It's about how much you make compared to the other activites in the game. I heard you. I heard you clearly, but I don't think you fully understand me as I've said this over and over.

Be happy with your two billion, but again, there are other low-risk activites that require cheaper built ships that can make 2 billion faster and easier. That's my point and it should be balanced.

 

[Sooden]

I already said it's not about how much you made or make. It's about how much you make compared to the other activites in the game. I heard you. I heard you clearly, but I don't think you fully understand me as I've said this over and over.

Be happy with your two billion, but again, there are other low-risk activites that require cheaper built ships that can make 2 billion faster and easier. That's my point and it should be balanced.

like, getting in your sidewinder, and now with its inbuilt scanner... right off the bat, millions from exploring?

 

[Deadlock-3000]

I already said it's not about how much you made or make. It's about how much you make compared to the other activites in the game. I heard you. I heard you clearly, but I don't think you fully understand me as I've said this over and over.

Be happy with your two billion, but again, there are other low-risk activites that require cheaper built ships that can make 2 billion faster and easier. That's my point and it should be balanced.

Christ on a bike. No, there aren't. It took those Hutton miner guys "several evenings and nights" with four players in a wing working flat out to break the record single transaction of 1.3 billion, and only one of them got that transaction, the others got a few millions each. I made the same money as them in my combat wing in about 3 hours, and so did the other members of the wing.

At some point you are going to have to admit to yourself that you've missed a trick.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

like, getting in your sidewinder, and now with its inbuilt scanner... right off the bat, millions from exploring?

didn't even think of that... but yeah. once you get a good FSD and a Fuel Scoop, you're off...

Combat in a sidey? you're going to have to submit to the other activities in order to get money as combat in a sidewinder is going to take a much longer while to get money to outfit with better internals...

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hmmm...

Just a wild theory of mine, but consider this :

- there's established price tags on Materials/Data, as given by Mission Reward choices (choosing i.e. 5x Grade5 Mats of a Mission will have a very constant and notable impact on Credits paid on top; this gives Mats a distinct Credit price)

-> Combat drops a ton of Materials of destroyed NPCs and adds some Data Scans as well, which might be intended as an integral part of the Combat Reward (even if their pickup is purely Optional)

Only missing key here is the lack of Options (can't forfeit scooping Mats to maximize Credits after all).

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Christ on a bike. No, there aren't. It took those Hutton miner guys "several evenings and nights" with four players in a wing working flat out to break the record single transaction of 1.3 billion, and only one of them got that transaction, the others got a few millions each. I made the same money as them in my combat wing in about 3 hours, and so did the other members of the wing.

At some point you are going to have to admit to yourself that you've missed a trick.

Well, in my Original Post, I said that the only way that a new combat player can make decent money is in a wing... didn't think it applied to experienced ones as well. This only more solidifies my point...

But even with that being said, I can't take YOUR experience as the experience of every Combat Pilot. Every Pilot doesn't have the skill, knowledge, and friends like you do so you're a special case and I have to leave it at that.
I can only use hard facts with numbers that are static across the board with situations that every pilot can experience by themselves.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Cutter

LOL

A bunch of combat veterans come in and disagree with your premise then you start arguing about costs using the Cutter as a baseline.

Some people don't agree with you. It's ok. Really, it is. But I for one am done taking your post seriously.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Well, in my Original Post, I said that the only way that a new combat player can make decent money is in a wing... didn't think it applied to experienced ones as well. This only more solidifies my point...

But even with that being said, I can't take YOUR experience as the experience of every Combat Pilot. Every Pilot doesn't have the skill, knowledge, and friends like you do so you're a special case and I have to leave it at that.
I can only use hard facts with numbers that are static across the board with situations that every pilot can experience by themselves.

Translation: I'm going to cherry pick my facts so as to support my argument in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Enjoy being poor.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

LOL

A bunch of combat veterans come in and disagree with your premise then you start arguing about costs using the Cutter as a baseline.

Some people don't agree with you. It's ok. Really, it is. But I for one am done taking your post seriously.

Not really using the Cutter as "THE" combat ship. Again, I was lazy and only wanted to use one ship. The cutter is pretty good at doing everything, but I mainly used it to show the gap in price for different builds. Plus on Xbox One, Cutters are used ALL the time in the PVP clips I see, I guess I'm misinformed on it's popularity.

Anyway, I'm doing PVE builds as PVP serves no purpose in the game except for might and roleplay.

If that doesn't make sense then, oh well. I'll stand by my evidence. Combat Builds are the most expensive in general (that's a fact), Combat is high-risk due to the rebuy cost (that's a fact), and it should pay as much as some of the other lower-risk activities in the game for these reasons (my opinion backed with facts).

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Translation: I'm going to cherry pick my facts so as to support my argument in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Enjoy being poor.

... okay... I would like some evidence to show that I was. If you can, I will admit fault... if not, that's okay. I'll just enjoy being poor..?