Congratulations. In all my time at the forums I have never seen a post of reasonable size that manages such a level of complete and utter incoherence.
Beyond is great but please let the next updates focus on combat and PvP
- Thread starter AP Birdman
- Start date
Congratulations. In all my time at the forums I have never seen a post of reasonable size that manages such a level of complete and utter incoherence.
I don't know, man. I can understand it pretty well myself.
AP Birdman
Banned
I think it just goes to show what kind of player base ED has. You have some players that scoff at the mere mention of combat and have to make sure everyone knows it.
It's also pretty ridiculous how many people you can obviously tell that they just read the title and had to post their opinion that they hate combat in this game. But regardless of all that there has been some genuine discussions and a lot of great ideas thrown around.
Even with all the nasty and empty headed posts in this thread, the fact that its gone on as long as it has just goes to show that pve-ers and pvpers are hungry for more. It is unfortunate though that so much of the discussion has focused on pvp because I feel like pve needs just as much focus. I come for pvp but stay for pve and right now pve just sucks. It's way too easy and most of the rewards are trash.
Also, I really wanted to discuss time to kill and balancing of modules but apparently no one cares, they'd rather just try to convince everyone that a ship capable of combat is a combat upgrade.
I would just ignore Sterling MH by the way. All his posts are just nasty, negative and he never has anything positive to say.
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Thing is PvE should be the easy part: provide a strong range of difficulty with at least some correlation in reward ideally.
I cannot think of a reasonable objection to difficult NPCs existing, even if not imposed on you. Hell I'd take a new RES level that has wings of highly engineered death machines just for the challenge and practice, and damn the monetary reward. It'd be nice to go fighting as a wing and experience combat as something more than a cash flow exercise.
As it stands they don't exist even if you want to go looking for it. The closest you get is thargs, and they are tbh the most monotonous of all combat instances: if you can kill it once, you can do it again on repeat - with no dynamics.
![[Diplomacy] Carnegie](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/123/123809.jpg?1553527149){kind=avatar}
AP Birdman
Banned
Oh I feel for explorers as well but they did just get quite a massive upgrade. FSS aside, the amount of "things to find" was more of an upgrade than pvpers have ever got.
Oh, that was a nice Deja-Vu watching your video! This is stuff I have been thinking about too, and your suggested solutions are the same stuff I too would see.
And I love your ship building suggestion!
AP Birdman
Banned
Couldn't agree more.
I don't understand why missions don't have a difficulty choice like almost every other MMO out there.
I understand there are players that just want to use turrets and make no attempt at improving their skills in the game but there are still many, many players that want more difficulty and want to be challenged. I have 7 friends that have completely left the game because of how easy Fdev made wing assassination missions after 3.0.
THERE WAS NO REASON WHY WING ASSIGNATION MISSIONS NEEDED TO BE NERFED!
It ruined the game for so many players and for what!? So some carebears could do them with all turrets with garbage ship builds?
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This
EDIT: Ew, I agreed with IBirdman. I need a shower, a hot acid shower in Ammonia
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Just make sure to explain to FDev that you don't want them to fix the TTK problem by them replacing all weapons with a one-shot-kill cannon thst you can only activate by playing a roubd of Candy Crush.
AP Birdman
Banned
We obviously disagree on a lot of pvp related issues but I bet we agree on a lot of pve issues.
Touche. I would still like to see TTK cut in half though.
Also a buff to medium and small hardpoints to make small ships more of a viable combat choice would be fantastic.
Finally. After 469 posts.
G-D Carebears. Ruin everything eh? Should have figured it their fault. And the fact there is 3 modes for them to hide in.
FYI Ammonia isn't an acid
AP Birdman
Banned
Lol. Sorry, I couldn't hold it in any longer. Wing assassination missions are a really sore subject for me. All of my pve gaming buddies left because Fdev nerfed them.
Actually, I don't blame the carebears though. I blame Fdev for catering to one kind of player when their game attracts so many different kinds. Instead if nerfing missions why don't they put in multiple difficulties with better rewards for higher difficulties? It makes no sense.
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I'm a full-on PVE-player and I fully support bringing back the old, good, wing assassinations. "an FDL and 2-4 vultures" every single time is boring.
And you're damn right about choosing mission difficulty. Yes, difficulty scales with the player's elite ranking and so on, but... if I'm hopping into my cobra for some nostaglia about my first couple of months playing, then I'm not looking for the same sorts of things to come after me as if I was flying, say, my corvette or FDL. Just because I can solo an elite conda in my courier doesn't mean that's what I want thrown at me every single time just because that's what my combat rank happens to say I should be fighting. If I'm out in my exploration ship then it doesn't matter what my combat rank is, so why scale the NPCs to rank?
At the other end of the scale, if I'm loaded for bear then give me some bears to shoot. And don't nerf the bears just because some nimrod decided to show up with birdshot and complained about it being hard.
Drop the base.
Facts:
Certain heavy hitting weapons are frequently used in PvP and have become standard and meta like plasmas, frags, railguns and weapons with experimental effects that are hardcounters.
A lot of commonly used non ammo based weapons like lasers, especially those which deliver a low burst DMG, are less common, along with most weapons being fixed, except those which spread anyway like frags, due to DPS advantages.
PvP encounters take multiple minutes without disengaging in between, due to huge HP pools and recharging consumables unless a counterbuild performs optimally against the primary target of the build.
Perma boosting is a key element of PvP and often FA Off is used in conjunction.
NPC design changed, as can be seen in CZ scenarios, by having them engineered and have for players unreachable subsystem HP pools, like engines on a scenario Commander eating a complete ordnance load of high cap modded packhounds, contrary to players who are left with engines shot out after a full volley. Another example is Thargoid combat, which is locked behind special weapons and an artificial limit of 4 experimental guns, aswell as ATR.
NPC difficulty perception greatly differs when flying the same ship with huge HP pools and without.
Non combat fit ships have a huge disadvantage when fighting a combat fit ship, due to lacking resilience and survivability -> fitting disparity.
Small ships without a specialized counter loadout have a very hard time against larger ships, with more emphasis on loadout than piloting competence.
I remember PB times when that was not the case and the game to me was more enjoyable without a big safety casing around the player. Also piloting was more important than plain sniping skill.
Is the current combat especially PVP fun for me? Nope.
It was fun in PB.
Certain heavy hitting weapons are frequently used in PvP and have become standard and meta like plasmas, frags, railguns and weapons with experimental effects that are hardcounters.
A lot of commonly used non ammo based weapons like lasers, especially those which deliver a low burst DMG, are less common, along with most weapons being fixed, except those which spread anyway like frags, due to DPS advantages.
PvP encounters take multiple minutes without disengaging in between, due to huge HP pools and recharging consumables unless a counterbuild performs optimally against the primary target of the build.
Perma boosting is a key element of PvP and often FA Off is used in conjunction.
NPC design changed, as can be seen in CZ scenarios, by having them engineered and have for players unreachable subsystem HP pools, like engines on a scenario Commander eating a complete ordnance load of high cap modded packhounds, contrary to players who are left with engines shot out after a full volley. Another example is Thargoid combat, which is locked behind special weapons and an artificial limit of 4 experimental guns, aswell as ATR.
NPC difficulty perception greatly differs when flying the same ship with huge HP pools and without.
Non combat fit ships have a huge disadvantage when fighting a combat fit ship, due to lacking resilience and survivability -> fitting disparity.
Small ships without a specialized counter loadout have a very hard time against larger ships, with more emphasis on loadout than piloting competence.
I remember PB times when that was not the case and the game to me was more enjoyable without a big safety casing around the player. Also piloting was more important than plain sniping skill.
Is the current combat especially PVP fun for me? Nope.
It was fun in PB.
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A lot of neat stuff has been added since those times, but a wide variety of terrible balance choices and a handful of bad design choices have slowly but surely completely undermined my ability to enjoy the game. I don't see myself ever firing the game up again beyond possibly just taking a peak at some stuff until FDev at least shows that they WANT to improve these debilitating issues. So far they have just kept making them worse though, so I'm not confident that will ever happen.
For instance, they have a very fun flight model with a clever and critical component: the blue zone. You have to choose between speed or maneuverability. Makes for exciting and cinematic fights. You can TEMPORARILY ignore the blue zone mechanic with a boost to pull off some cool maneuvers, but you have to choose wisely when to do it and manage your energy carefully.
Then engineering is introduced that allows you to boost constantly, thus ignoring the flight model nearly constantly. Combined with FA-off you can ignore it basicallycompletely. That "stall" you occasionally see people talking about with the FDL (which hurts my soul a little every time I see it)? Yeah. That's the FDL having to ever-so-briefly ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE SUBJECT TO THE FLIGHT MODEL. So what does FDev do to fix this problem? Introduce ships that don't really have to worry about the blue zone even when NOT boosting, make engineering even stronger, and introduce ships that can permaboost even WITHOUT engineering.
Stackable defense modules created a huge rift between combat (especially PvP) focused ships and everything else, stifling organic encounters, dividing the community, and making difficulty balancing extremely, well, difficult. What does FDev do? Introduce engineering that hugely exacerbates the disparity, add in several MORE stackable defensive modules, and add in several more non-combat modules that are basically required for their associated non-combat task, thus making the disparity even more crushingly huge.
Sterling MH
Banned
Go ask a combat flight sim about turning circles and their importance in a dogfight. If I can turn inside your boost turn radius I cannot lose the turning circle fight. And it's very likely that I will win it and make a bead on you. Something that makes going for gimballed weapons nothing like a "scrub" choice: there's tactical use for firing off-boresight, usually in a dogfight. Better boosting is still a great advantage because you can either engage or disengage on your terms, if you can permaboost faster or they can't boost all the time.
Dropping the game because it doesn't fit the way you play is a very bad reason to leave a game. Sure, it's only a game so you don't NEED a reason to stop. But that doesn't stop it being a bad reason.
ED has a problem with situational awareness, though I daresay that familiarity will lessen the gap. I frequently boost turn to try to get bead on a big ship (always an anaconda, small ships this never happens with) and then find I've just flipped right round to their front guns. Better radar or a HUD element for an off-screen target with range and relative heading would do for me. But its lack doesn't make me not play.
Dropping the game because it doesn't fit the way you play is a very bad reason to leave a game. Sure, it's only a game so you don't NEED a reason to stop. But that doesn't stop it being a bad reason.
ED has a problem with situational awareness, though I daresay that familiarity will lessen the gap. I frequently boost turn to try to get bead on a big ship (always an anaconda, small ships this never happens with) and then find I've just flipped right round to their front guns. Better radar or a HUD element for an off-screen target with range and relative heading would do for me. But its lack doesn't make me not play.