AP Birdman
Banned
Sweet!
Beyond is great but please let the next updates focus on combat and PvP
- Thread starter AP Birdman
- Start date
Sweet!
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As someone that flies a Cobra MK3 fairly often (and clearly not a PvP build), i'm still seeing CMDRs that want to sealclub in godships. CQC still dead? So yeah meme is still good.
With squadron names showing, it'll be interesting if being labelled "Fuel Rat" slows them down at all (when we're on a case only, obviously), but I doubt it.
As for topic: I disagree, there's been a large number of combat updates yet so many non-combat areas still need improvement, and are barely better than the launch game. Combat (PvE and PvP) isn't perfect, yet they've had so many attempts now it must at least be in a place where they feel happy enough.
Finish off squadrons; fleet carriers, non-combat module review (engineering for say fuel scoops, limpet controllers desperately need something done), small pad only outposts and small ship content, etc
That would be because it seems to fit the observed facts.
CQC is arranged PvP with prefabbed loadouts. I am not looking for fixed builds and arranged PvP, but for open PvP where the start of an encounter is unsure and you need to be vigilant. Sadly the combat changes catered toward PvE and vocal wing PvP. There is no fun in having builds that overcompensate Pilot error with resilience and healing potions. There is no skill in hardcounters and in PvP most items have become subpar, thus lacking diversity and sparked disparity between playstyles yielding so called godships and meta.
PB was free of that garbage and it was enjoyable but got butchered to make the game as boring and easy as it is now. Encounters in the multiple minute length without disengagements and just war of attrition kill any sense of dynamic combat and meaning to PvP.
To give PvP meaning it needs to be connected to the game by tieing it into the BGS as squadrons seem to Start doing with minor faction pledge, additionally as suggested in long threads make player encounters and states generate USS.
PB was free of that garbage and it was enjoyable but got butchered to make the game as boring and easy as it is now. Encounters in the multiple minute length without disengagements and just war of attrition kill any sense of dynamic combat and meaning to PvP.
To give PvP meaning it needs to be connected to the game by tieing it into the BGS as squadrons seem to Start doing with minor faction pledge, additionally as suggested in long threads make player encounters and states generate USS.
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PvP will only ever have as much "meaning" as the players engaged in it give it. Adding some additional game mechanics to it like potential Squadron wars, and BGS effects would be nice. But seeing the PowerPlay fiasco (in terms of emergent gameplay and PvP), I wouldn't hold my hopes up.
As you described, pre-engineers (I assume PB means Pre-Beta), the game was hardly balanced but the maximum ceiling for "module power" was well defined and not locked behind hundreds of hours of grinding for RNG materials (besides the base credit grind).
Post-Engineers, PvP has become an Engineering Arms-race, where you can only ever dream of being able to compete in, not only after grinding to buy the ship + modules (which is already substantial), but also behind even more grinding for the Engineering (from my experience, grinding for Eng mats is at least 10x more time consuming than the credit grind to obtain the initial ship + modules).
Player skill has now very little to do with winning actual PvP fights (although I'm not discounting the amount of training needed to become proficient at FA-off / using fixed weapons / general piloting finesse).
You could strap the best PvP pilot in an unegineered A-rated FDL, and they wouldn't stand a chance against a mediocre pilot in an uber-engineered-meta-pvp-godship FDL. It's the sad reality that many refuse to acknowledge, and has driven a lot of skilled pilots out of PvP (and even out of the game) due to the sheer amount of time needed to grind for mats in order to become competitive in PvP.
Obviously the PvP players that remain, will staunchly defend their godships since they depend on them to be able to win (and have dedicated hundreds of hours at engineering them into uber-meta-godships).
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So you don't like CQC prefabbed loadouts, but the Open meta is lacking diversity, essentially meaning loadouts are prefabbed. Or do you wish having imbalanced fights.
Genuine questions for you though: when you see an obviously not-PvP ship, what goes through your mind? Do you still attack them, even if they're an explorer (no cargo racks, maybe one small pulse laser)? Is such PvP enjoyable for you?
But i'm not sure what people would want in a combat update. Engineering is not going away, so the choice is rebalancing (good luck with that), power-creep (eg more Guardian weapons), or possibly some serious nerfs to meta items (salty tears).
I just don't see much return on investment for FDev, whereas more non-combat updates may generate returning players, new players, and more microtransactions.
What's going to make money for them? Space legs and landable planets would be the big earners: more Holo-me dressing up; new purchasable SRVs; ship interiors (paint, decorations, wall art etc).
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So true. FDEV will hardly see much ROI from combat changes (besides adding new content like they did with the new CZs). They cannot possibly undo the damage Engineering has done without either further unbalancing the game or invoking the salty tears of many (by reducing / adjusting the effect Engineering has).
They have some many underdeveloped areas of the game, and so much low-hanging fruit in terms of improvements. Combat is the last thing they want to touch.
Ahh the good ole beta times, I'm with you on that. Especially the time BEFORE the SCB ruined the fine balance between aggressor and defender; have fine memories of my first attack on a T9 and running with my tail between my legs.
They wont turn back the clock, so they can keep the joke pvp in ED has become, I now play other games for that. Who the hell thought 20+ mins TTK was 'fun'? Idiots who listened to wing pvp and then pve farmers advice that's who.
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I do agree that the cost/benefit ratio of streamlining and rebalancing combat mechanisms is probably unfavorable to just pushing out more 'content', but that may not always be the case. If ED ever gets any competition, the core mechanisms are going to be reevaluated with a critical eye, and tuning them is far easier than more superficial alterations to the game that require new assets to be created.
Sounds like an argument for more relevant choices when it comes to the core game's outfitting options than a desire for imbalanced fights.
Honestly, I feel CQC has a better outfitting system than the rest of the game; nearly all options are trade-offs, with very few being broadly inflationary. This is what Engineers should have been, not inflation with handful of effects that were clearly more potent and more broadly applicable than others.
Something that combines the ostensibly broad spectrum of choices possible with the main game's outfitting and Engineering combinations with the balance maintaining trade-offs of the CQC (or pre-release weapon module) system would have been ideal.
Sounds like an argument for more relevant choices when it comes to the core game's outfitting options than a desire for imbalanced fights.
Honestly, I feel CQC has a better outfitting system than the rest of the game; nearly all options are trade-offs, with very few being broadly inflationary. This is what Engineers should have been, not inflation with handful of effects that were clearly more potent and more broadly applicable than others.
Something that combines the ostensibly broad spectrum of choices possible with the main game's outfitting and Engineering combinations with the balance maintaining trade-offs of the CQC (or pre-release weapon module) system would have been ideal.
Good times. My full frag ASP trader gave some well deserved slaps in the face of wanabe pirates.
Different times now. The gap between a "civilian" ship and a PvP monster has never been larger. When engineers got introduced, I expected 10% bonuses for anything combat related... how wrong was I, with the +500% effective shields being a thing...
I wish for all modules being a viable choice by the removal of the hitpoint related module cancer.
I am a pirate, i interdict what looks like it has cargo, scan it and then evaluate.
If it is hostile i will blast it to bits if that investment means profit, or run if outgunned.
We currently only have imbalanced fights, before the whole mess started with SCBs and then snowballing down, turreted ships were a suitable detriment to assailants, but also small ships like an eagle were viable as large ship hunters. The field was an interesting one even without engineering.
New piracy modifications ... in line with other upgrades so far.
- Enter supercruise.
- Switch to Analysis Mode.
- Activate Victim-Scanner.
- Once you have found potential victims, choose one and, in combat mode, move to interdict.
- If the interdiction is successful, switch back to Analysis mode and launch cargo and module probes, these should tell you whether the victim has what you want.
- If so, switch back to combat mode and issue demands.
- Exchange fire as necessary.
- Switch back to Analysis mode and launch limpets for hatch breaking, collection etc. Please note that hatch breakers are not available in Combat mode.
- Return to start.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
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Very true.
However, I do think Frontier could add features to add to the PvP, which has been mentioned earlier to make the PvP crowd a bit happier at least. I doubt it will bring back many of the old players, but it could at least keep some of the ones still here and maybe make it enticing enough for new players who want PvP.
But overall, I agree with you that the real money-makers will most likely be other features, legs, atmos, and such. But combat (PvE combat) could be improved with more useful NPC crew and NPC wings, but that would ruin PvP even more, I'm sure.
AP Birdman
Banned
Actually all of what you said is what I'd like to see in next years updates.
I'd really like to see powerplay actually become something that interests players as well and hopefully go open only. Atmospheric landings, something more for cargo (no clue what though) something for explorers and more interesting and engaging pve missions. I personally could care less about space legs but that's just me.
I would love to see Fdev tone down fully engineered ships in an attempt to reduce TTK but they seem to be incapable of even balancing the mamba properly so I'm not very hopeful they would be able to pull it off.
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I did! Oh well, you caught it.