Beyond convoluted.

The point I'm making is that 'we' brought this on ourselves. After four years of development, ED is looking very much like what interested and engaged players have suggested it should be. You and I are among that choir! :D

See, this is part of the "problem", IMO.

When mat' traders were first proposed, there was a stampede of people who, apparently, just like the idea of reducing the mat' grind and just went "Hellz Yeah!!!".
Meanwhile, I was thinking "Really? That's all it's going to take to satisfy you?"
So, we got mat' traders and that's that problem "solved".
Yay!

Similar thing now, with mining.

Everybody's so caught up in mining their void-opals with 6 ablation-blasters to get multiple chunks, and getting more credits than they'll ever be able to spend for their efforts, that they don't really seem to be interested that it is, basically, rendering every other means of earning credits in the game redundant.
But hey, that doesn't matter cos "BOOOOOOOMMMMMM! CREDITS!!!!!!"

[sad]
 
Indeed.

The specific activities certainly have been "fleshed out" (with varying degrees of success) but they've had very little actually added to them.

To use exploration as an example, to me a "fleshed out" version of exploration should involve there being a bunch of new things to do, see, accomplish and interact with.
Simply pressing more buttons to achieve the same things isn't "fleshed out".
It's "padded".

Ah, you've been doing what my wife calls 'man looking' then :)
 
In reply to my own query - I have now blown up 4 asteroids ..... not in "hotspots".... so I'm thinking unless you really are in the middle of nowehere then the whole hotspots thing is probably not worth bothering with - just drop into a likely ring and get on with it.
 
See, I guess that's where it depends what you're hoping for.

There are a handful of extra things floating around in space and that's great, as far as it goes.
When I said "see, do, accomplish and interact with", I guess that fulfills the "see" part but not much else.

To me, a worthy update for exploration would have included a variety of new modules, new activities and new opportunities all related to exploring.
Right now, the only new things to see, do, accomplish and interact with are related to the extra "padding" they've put into the process of doing all the same stuff we could do before.

In regard to exploring, I'm a little worried that FDev have stuck so doggedly to the intention to not introduce anything that could hamper or neglect those already out exploring.
It's a worthy consideration for minor updates but Beyond was a year in the making and there was plenty of opportunity for explorers who wanted to take advantage of the new features to get back to the bubble for a re-fit.

If FDev are always going to adhere to this principle, it means every update to exploration is only ever going to be "sprinkles" and we're never going to get any fundamental improvements to the activity.
I guess I’m lost. I still don’t understand what could have been added to exploration which you would have considered anything other than “padding”. Did you want a full galmap reset, “fog of war” for unvisited systems, and manually deployed nav beacons which would be required for plotting to any star that isn’t one jump away? Hyperspace misjumps? Parallel dimensions? Derelict spaceships you can actually repair and add to your fleet? Player-deployable satellites, listening posts, etc? Or would these things also essentially be “padding” to you too?

I’m not trying to play the “you can never be pleased Frontier can’t win” game with you, it’s just confusing to me. Is this really primarily about modules?
 
I’m not trying to play the “you can never be pleased Frontier can’t win” game with you, it’s just confusing to me. Is this really primarily about modules?

Spacecat's "Rube Goldberg" reference is quite apt, for those who're familiar with the guy's work.

You can flick a switch to turn a light on.
Or, you can press a button that causes a ball to roll down a ramp, which knocks over a candle, which sets fire to a piece of string, which causes the string to snap, which allows a weight to fall, which pushes on a bellows and inflates a rubber glove which presses on the light switch and turns the light on.

Either way, you're still just carrying out one action, which results in one outcome.
The only difference is the complexity of the process involved in achieving that outcome.
That's "padding".

For me, actually "fleshing out" exploration in a meaningful way would involve a whole variety of different things.

I've said the same things before but, before I launch into a big sales-pitch, have you ever played KSP?
In that, you start off with one scratchy rocket, an equally scratchy command module and a couple of extra parts.
You get given simple missions (launch a rocket to an altitude of 5km, test a decoupler at a speed >300m/sec, take a temperature reading at an altitude of 10km etc) and if you successfully complete them you gain access to more parts, you get more challenging missions and you get a more diverse selection of methods to complete them.

I would like to see that sort of ethos introduced into ED - and not just for exploration but for all the main "careers".
There could be factions that specialise in each activity, they provide missions of a specific type and completing them unlocks different modules that give you more choices for doing more things of the same type.

That's actually kind of beside the point, though - although I'm happy to chat about it.
The point of this thread was really just to express my disappointment at the way we're just getting the same stuff "re-imagined" rather than getting properly new stuff, and see if anybody else felt the same way.

I'm also a little concerned about the idea of "core gameplay" vs "expansions" too.
Given that paid-expansions are likely to have to focus on things that are distinct from the core game (so that the core game can remain viable for anybody who doesn't buy a given expansion) it's a little bit disappointing to think that we're only ever likely to get "Rube Goldberg" updates to the core game in future, if Beyond is any indication of intent.
 
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But... there are a bunch of new things to do, see and interact with.

Like what? Seriously, educate us all with a detailed description of the new (gameplay) "bunch of things to do, see and interact with"... aside from time wasting mouse click additions to existing gameplay.
 
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Like what? Seriously, educate us all with a detailed description of the new (gameplay) "bunch of things to do, see and interact with"... aside from time wasting mouse click additions to existing gameplay.

For exploration
Geological Features is the obvious one. Very good for collecting materials without going to Dav, or driving around in your buggy for ever. In the FSS keep an eye out for geological features, with the materials you want. It breaks up long trips in a more constructive way. Ok, I admit I also use CQC for this. These were in the gam before, the System map would give you a clue in the Volcano section what geology there was in a planet, but finding them was another thing.

For Closer to the Bubble
New Scenarios in USS,
Moving Megahips taking the turrets out is a fun one.
Revamped CZs, although tey need another patch to work properly, still useable now.

There is a lot more, if you want detail why not read the patch notes.
Horse to Water cannot make it drink.

Cheers
Simon
 
I have little doubt that what has been done will be further expanded upon, and there will be more and new things to do and see and all that - just not for free.
 
Like what? Seriously, educate us all with a detailed description of the new (gameplay) "bunch of things to do, see and interact with"... aside from time wasting mouse click additions to existing gameplay.

Do you honestly believe I still waste my time with you? It's pointless to discuss something because you are unable to accept other people's opinions.
 
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I guess I’m lost. I still don’t understand what could have been added to exploration which you would have considered anything other than “padding”. Did you want a full galmap reset, “fog of war” for unvisited systems, and manually deployed nav beacons which would be required for plotting to any star that isn’t one jump away? Hyperspace misjumps? Parallel dimensions? Derelict spaceships you can actually repair and add to your fleet? Player-deployable satellites, listening posts, etc? Or would these things also essentially be “padding” to you too?

I’m not trying to play the “you can never be pleased Frontier can’t win” game with you, it’s just confusing to me. Is this really primarily about modules?

New things to discover. New ways to interact with those discoveries. More than just a lousy, fiddly, tedious 2D mini game.
 
I like the new c&p. It simple and you can actually pay off fines and bounties so you dont have NPCs chasing you all over the galaxy to collect your bounty. No more sucidewinders.
Notoriety is simple enough, just hang out somewhere else for a while and then pay your fines.
 
And C&P is laughably bad. Hot modules? Really? Put the bounty back on the pilot like so. For player kills:

If you kill a player in non-anarchy systems you pay their rebuy, plus another 25% of it, as a fine. Up to and including forfeiting your own stuff to afford it.

There. Griefing over. And Anarchy stays dangerous.

I like this sort of post. "Frontier should do {C&P thing that's considerably less punishing than the current system} and this will permanently solve griefing"

1) At Notoriety 10 - which a habitual killer will have, we're not talking "speeding offence" territory here - the murder bounty is quite substantial and can be well over "victim's rebuy + 25%" already.
2) The closing of the suicidewinder exploit in 3.0 meant that you have to pay off that bounty somehow, and being unable to refit your ship without "hot module" tax means it may even get paid off prior to destruction.

But also, consider the obvious problem with "killer pays proportional to rebuy of victim".
- someone blowing up Noobwinders in Eravate pays maybe a few hundred credits per kill. Deterrent!
- a trade-fit stripped down T-9? Even with 25% added on that's only about 7.5 million credits. Still less than one easy trade mission to recoup, or 5 void opals. (Shame about the T-9's cargo, which was worth way more than that)
- a fully armoured and armed T-9 that should be able to defend itself ... those you pay perhaps 25 million if they stand and fight. Now we're getting into "maybe I shouldn't shoot at that", perhaps.
The result: pick on things way smaller than you. Combat equipment is generally the expensive bits, so that shouldn't be tricky.

Frontier thought of this, of course: as of 3.0 you pay according to the *difference* between your rebuys. Blow up a Freewinder in an A-rated Cutter? 50 million credits onto your bounty and stop picking on the new players. Blow up an A-rated Cutter in your Freewinder? Minor bounty because it was their own fault for losing a Cutter to a Freewinder. Attackers are encouraged not to fight things considerably smaller than them.
 
I like this sort of post. "Frontier should do {C&P thing that's considerably less punishing than the current system} and this will permanently solve griefing"

1) At Notoriety 10 - which a habitual killer will have, we're not talking "speeding offence" territory here - the murder bounty is quite substantial and can be well over "victim's rebuy + 25%" already.
2) The closing of the suicidewinder exploit in 3.0 meant that you have to pay off that bounty somehow, and being unable to refit your ship without "hot module" tax means it may even get paid off prior to destruction.

But also, consider the obvious problem with "killer pays proportional to rebuy of victim".
- someone blowing up Noobwinders in Eravate pays maybe a few hundred credits per kill. Deterrent!
- a trade-fit stripped down T-9? Even with 25% added on that's only about 7.5 million credits. Still less than one easy trade mission to recoup, or 5 void opals. (Shame about the T-9's cargo, which was worth way more than that)
- a fully armoured and armed T-9 that should be able to defend itself ... those you pay perhaps 25 million if they stand and fight. Now we're getting into "maybe I shouldn't shoot at that", perhaps.
The result: pick on things way smaller than you. Combat equipment is generally the expensive bits, so that shouldn't be tricky.

Frontier thought of this, of course: as of 3.0 you pay according to the *difference* between your rebuys. Blow up a Freewinder in an A-rated Cutter? 50 million credits onto your bounty and stop picking on the new players. Blow up an A-rated Cutter in your Freewinder? Minor bounty because it was their own fault for losing a Cutter to a Freewinder. Attackers are encouraged not to fight things considerably smaller than them.

I never said pays proportionately. I said they psybthe rebuy itself. Hard to grief, when the victim isnt losing anything.
 
I see nothing convoluted about the updates. And the OP forgot about the trade tools update which are also good.

The only one I don't like is the crime and punishment. Bounty shiuld be on the player and not the ship. But even then the C&P update is pretty easy to understand.
 
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