Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!

CMDR Plexus Ironrot

CMDR Plexus Ironrot
Hey guys I want to tell y’all thankyou for such informative discussion about this topic! But let’s remember we are all in this together and we all get to play this awesome game that frontiers made for us to enjoy! Lets stay respectful. You guys are the best! :D



Now that you are forcing Engineered NPC's in Combat Zones and Wing Missions its time to make Horizons the base game or add some kind of Engineering lite for them.. You have made this game comparatively UNPLAYABLE from horizons to non horizons players. Its bad enough that this game does not balance pass alot but now the disparities are just to great. Try to fight in a CZ in a unengineered ship or even do a wing assassination mission..

OH DID I MENTION THEY ARE LOCKED OUT OF THARGOID COMBAT??? YEAH good luck fighting a thargoid in a unengineered ship with Human AX weapons

I love you guys you make a fun game (abiet buggy now D: )but this last ditch cash grab is bad. Just drop the 30 dollar one and just sell elite for 50-60 bucks USD or maybe just 45 bucks... I have bought the horizons pass for so many commanders over the year just so they can enjoy elite to the fullest..

Cheers
Plexus

TLDR
Just Sell Elite with horizons. For the advertised price.

I payed 60bucks for this game (best god dam 60 bucks i ever spent) and I have bought (with my own money) horizons for several cmdrs so they could play elite.. all of elite. I love this game that much. Please don't think i want them to give away stuff for free. Just saying its time to drop the "base game" and sell to all new CMDRS Horizons so they can play all of FDEVS hard work.
 
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Villeruff

V
Comparatively unplayable? Yes, compared to Horizons owners, base game owners cannot play Horizons content. It's because they didn't pay for Horizons. Locked out of Thargoid combat? Yeah, because they didn't pay for Horizons, Thargoids came in 2.4 The Return, which was the last part of Horizons.

We were all just given a year's worth of content for free, now you demanding more? In caps? If you think Fdev do good work, and want access to the Horizons gameplay, then pay Fdev for their work. A cash grab is selling a low/no value product under the pretense it is a high value product. Fdev do no such thing. In fact, they even lowered the prices of all their cosmetics recently. I'm no great fan of capitalism, but Fdev are fair and decent business people.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
He's got a point - and a pretty glaring one at that - having NPC's with Horizons assets in the base NON HORIZONS game is a pretty stupid (and sloppy) oversight.

Plenty of other games where new expansion assets didn't overlap with the previous version - FDev just didn't take the time (no surprise there) to ensure it (or don't know how)

FDev must get sick of all the "FDev bashing" and tbh I get sick of myself for doing it**, but when this sort of thing is implemented by FDev, what exactly do they expect?

** but someone has to.
 

MrFailfactory

MrFailfactory
At this point, I'm having a hard time understanding how someone could play this game for any length of time, and not purchase Horizons. I have even less understanding for anyone who had the base game, and has played since then, but never upgraded to Horizons.

That just seems silly, and you say that you have purchased Horizons for *so many* others?

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with your position because Horizons has years under its belt, and has been on sale a number of times - they need to pony up if they don't want to be left behind.

More paid content is coming in 2019, which will undoubtedly put them further behind than they already are.

Riôt
 

Bortas

Bortas
CMDR Plexus Ironrot said:
I love you guys you make a fun game (abiet buggy now D: )but this last ditch cash grab is bad. Just drop the 30 dollar one and just sell elite for 50-60 bucks USD or maybe just 45 bucks... I have bought the horizons pass for so many commanders over the year just so they can enjoy elite to the fullest..
Click to expand...

Check the store, mate. Horizons is currently $7,20 and the ED Deluxe Edition (Base game + horizons + paint jobs) $14,40.

That's about the amount you pay for a single month subsciption for WoW or other MMOs.
Sorry, but if someone doesn't want to spend that amount on a game they can play for years without additional cost, they are probably not really interested in it anyway thus I couldn't care less if they can't access Horizon content.
 
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Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
Villeruff said:
Comparatively unplayable? Yes, compared to Horizons owners, base game owners cannot play Horizons content. It's because they didn't pay for Horizons. Locked out of Thargoid combat? Yeah, because they didn't pay for Horizons, Thargoids came in 2.4 The Return, which was the last part of Horizons.

We were all just given a year's worth of content for free, now you demanding more? In caps? If you think Fdev do good work, and want access to the Horizons gameplay, then pay Fdev for their work. A cash grab is selling a low/no value product under the pretense it is a high value product. Fdev do no such thing. In fact, they even lowered the prices of all their cosmetics recently. I'm no great fan of capitalism, but Fdev are fair and decent business people.
Click to expand...

Listen, you are not getting what he's saying - it's quite simple if you took a breath for just a moment from that rant and thought about it.

He's playing the version of Elite where the only thing available is bows and arrows and basic leather armour from 2000 years ago - figuratively - yet all the NPC's he's being FORCED (yes FORCED, as there's no other option available) to interact with all have Modern Kevlar armour with armour piercing ammunition.

Tell you what - lets have a fight - you get a knife and I'll bring a Magnum .45 - sounds fair right? (I'm being rhetorical mods, pretty obvious but just to be sure)

Regardless of whether you think the OP is right or wrong about not buying the Horizons expansion - there should be NO OVERLAP OF ASSETS. PERIOD.

It IS possible if you pay attention to the code - anyone who's played older multiplayer games with different code versions would know this.

Also having a go at the OP because you don't have ANY CLUE about his financial restrictions or ability is in pretty poor taste and you owe him an apology.

And don't even get me started on FDev's policy regarding the "value as sold" of thier products or you and I are going to have a real problem, because ED as it stands today is still missing HUGE chunks of content sold in the KS with no ETA being given as to WHEN - or even IF - it will arrive.

@Bortas and the rest who are saying "just buy it" - each of you put in a dollar and he can have it - otherwise ask a question: "WHY hasn't he got Horizons" and consider there may just be a very valid reason that you in your 2 car garage house and "3.9 Earths lifestyle" are forgetting.

such arrogance.
 
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valbarr

V
Bortas said:
Check the store, mate. Horizons is currently $7,20 and the ED Deluxe Edition (Base game + horizons + paint jobs) $14,40.

That's about the amount you pay for a single month subsciption for WoW or other MMOs.
Sorry, but if someone doesn't want to spend that amount on a game they can play for years without additional cost, they are probably not really interested in it anyway thus I couldn't care less if they can't access Horizon content.
Click to expand...

totally agree. i love this game, i just wish they would give us more content, so i can give them more money to make more content etc etc.
 

CMDR Plexus Ironrot

CMDR Plexus Ironrot
Bortas said:
Check the store, mate. Horizons is currently $7,20 and the ED Deluxe Edition (Base game + horizons + paint jobs) $14,40.

That's about the amount you pay for a single month subsciption for WoW or other MMOs.
Sorry, but if someone doesn't want to spend that amount on a game they can play for years without additional cost, they are probably not really interested in it anyway thus I couldn't care less if they can't access Horizon content.
Click to expand...

Yes I know just bought horizons for someone ^_^ and yes I get that "OH THEY DONT LIKE IT SHOVE IT" mentality that I hear all the time from people on this forum but I admit its odd when I have to explain to people that are used to what DLC's are that really when you buy the base game you only get like 25% of it and you really need horizons to enjoy it.. Kinda why I just gift it to them..

Villeruff said:
Comparatively unplayable? Yes, compared to Horizons owners, base game owners cannot play Horizons content. It's because they didn't pay for Horizons. Locked out of Thargoid combat? Yeah, because they didn't pay for Horizons, Thargoids came in 2.4 The Return, which was the last part of Horizons.

We were all just given a year's worth of content for free, now you demanding more? In caps? If you think Fdev do good work, and want access to the Horizons gameplay, then pay Fdev for their work. A cash grab is selling a low/no value product under the pretense it is a high value product. Fdev do no such thing. In fact, they even lowered the prices of all their cosmetics recently. I'm no great fan of capitalism, but Fdev are fair and decent business people.
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Yes but do you know how many new CMDRS get frustrated when they quickly realized that they bought a game then they have to buy another DLC just to get the full game. not saying to give it away saying just stop offering "BASE" Game.. its just silly. just sell it as one package deal now. TBH Horizons is what elite should be.

Its just a very strange business practice.
 
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Villeruff

V
CMDR Plexus Ironrot said:
Yes I know just bought horizons for someone ^_^ and yes I get that "OH THEY DONT LIKE IT SHOVE IT" mentality that I hear all the time from people on this forum but I admit its odd when I have to explain to people that are used to what DLC's are that really when you buy the base game you only get like 25% of it and you really need horizons to enjoy it.. Kinda why I just gift it to them..



Yes but do you know how many new CMDRS get frustrated when they quickly realized that they bought a game then they have to buy another DLC just to get the full game. not saying to give it away saying just stop offering "BASE" Game.. its just silly. just sell it as one package deal now. TBH Horizons is what elite should be.

Its just a very strange business practice.
Click to expand...

That I agree with. DLC selling practices get pretty silly.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
While making a sandwich I had a few thoughts - so I'm going to lay them out for those struggling with the base point of the OP's post.

Horizons is an EXPANSION, to put it another way it's a DLC.

Expansions and DLC's for almost all other games ever made are OPTIONAL.

They have to be by their very nature, because some will buy them and some won't.

So, the player has a choice to either experience that extra content provided by the expansion or DLC - or not.

Just to reiterate, the point the OP is making is that NPC's in the BASE GAME - are using UPGRADED EXPANSION / DLC ASSETS IN THE BASE GAME, making the whole experience very difficult. It could not be made any clearer.

Now the whole "why don't you take yo po' broke a** to the store and buy it" is a matter of financial ability and nothing to do with how the game is implemented.

I could say the same "if you play anything for any period of time it's expected you pay money upgrade that experience" to you the reader about using a sub standard GPU or monitor or HOTAS setup - or take that further and ask why you drive that POS car, and live in that neighborhood - etc etc etc - EVERYTHING is relative.

One could very well make a solid argument that the OP's problem is a P2W situation. The NPC's have better DLC assets that he is finding it diffucult to compete against using BASE GAME assets.

Almost all gamers everywhere know what competing in a P2W environment is like and "get yo' po' broke a** down the store and go buy it fo' yo'self" often just isn't an option.

This isn't a financial argument, gentlemen (and ladies, helloo ladies) - this is about how the code has been written to allow NPC's to use DLC assets against NON DLC OWNERS.

The moment DLC assets are hardcoded to get used in a base game environment BY NPC'S - the DLC assets by definition are NOT OPTIONAL CONTENT, BECAUSE THE PLAYERS HAVE NO CHOICE IN THIS.

The moment the choice of whether to experience the DLC assets (or not) is removed - they can no longer be considered DLC's and thus MUST be part of the base game, otherwise it's imbalanced.

This is just general common practise in all MMO style games with several expansions - a new one comes out and it includes ALL PREVIOUS expansions to maintain continuity.

FDev have included DLC assets to the base game NPC's without giving that same option to base game players - part of this is down to how Beyond has been badly implemented.

Or the cynical will say it's an attempt by FDev to FORCE the player into buying Horizons just so they can compete against NPC's on a level playing field - and is then a pretty blatent "cash grab" which the OP felt it was, and on that basis, he's NOT WRONG.


Sloppy (again). Very sloppy.

So to repeat myself again, if all you "go buy it's" are so incensed by his lack of ownership of Horizons, be nice and buy it for him, after all it's only a few dollars, right? (or a dollar each if you get together). Only a very few will actually understand the point I'm making with that statement.
 
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Bravador

Bravador
Villeruff said:
That I agree with. DLC selling practices get pretty silly.
Click to expand...

No. Frontier also needs money to continue developing the game, which is why there are extensions and a cosmetics shop. This is not strange, it is on the contrary very light for capitalism. Frontier is exemplary on this issue. The price of the game and the expansion are very low, and they are regularly on sale. Currently, Horizon is at 6 €, given the incredible work that they have provided for this extension, I really find that you abuse to request the content for free, when it is at this price. Make an effort, or do not complain, that's enough.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/441340/Elite_Dangerous_Horizons_Season_Pass/
 
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CMDR Plexus Ironrot

CMDR Plexus Ironrot
Bravador said:


No. Frontier also needs money to continue developing the game, which is why there are extensions and a cosmetics shop. This is not strange, it is on the contrary very light for capitalism. Frontier is exemplary on this issue. The price of the game and the expansion are very low, and they are regularly on sale. Currently, Horizon is at 6 €, given the incredible work that they have provided for this extension, I really find that you abuse to request the content for free, when it is at this price. Make an effort, or do not complain, that's enough.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/441340/Elite_Dangerous_Horizons_Season_Pass/
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Wow you don't read do you... No where did I say give it for free...read man read!!!.I did not just buy this game today...I have played elite for a LONG TIME okay.. I just have bought horizons for a few new cmdrs and I get to hear the SAME FING rant about how its stupid that its sold this way. . also no it wont be that price forever either...SO please make a effort to read the post sir thankyou


TLDR
STOP OFFERING THE BASE GAME Just SELL the game with horizons included. Or offer a LITE version of engineering.
 

CMDR Plexus Ironrot

CMDR Plexus Ironrot
Bortas said:
Well, that's indeed true. I've rarely seen such an exceptionally user-friendly business model, as ED's. No subscription, no pay-to-win... what else can one ask for?
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Completely out of context and i am not talking about that i am saying it is odd that you have a base game that only gives you 25% of the game then they sell you a dlc that has the rest of the game.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Rafe Zetter
CMDR Plexus Ironrot said:
Yes but do you know how many new CMDRS get frustrated when they quickly realized that they bought a game then they have to buy another DLC just to get the full game. not saying to give it away saying just stop offering "BASE" Game.. its just silly. just sell it as one package deal now. TBH Horizons is what elite should be.

Its just a very strange business practice.
Click to expand...

See? This Cmdr gets it.

Shame so few of the rest of you do - maybe if more of you did, things would be better around here and the game.

StuartGT said:
Agreed: only Horizons (so basegame owners can upgrade) and CMDR Deluxe (for new players) should be available.
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StuartGT - we disagree on most things but I'm going to rep you for that.
 
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