AP Birdman
Banned
WTH I'm not insulting anyone. There's nothing wrong with having disabilities or lacking confidence in your abilities. Quit being so sensitive to every little thing I say.
Modes I know I'm beating a dead horse, but we need official PvE servers
- Thread starter Aardwolfz
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WTH I'm not insulting anyone. There's nothing wrong with having disabilities or lacking confidence in your abilities. Quit being so sensitive to every little thing I say.
AP Birdman
Banned
Yes and no. Think about this logically, if Fdev added a pve open server, everyone would run their missions in in the pve server leaving nothing but pvpers in the normal open server and because there are currently ZERO incentives for PvP in Elite Dangerous, no one would be incentivized to play in the normal open server and the game would just die for pvpers.
If I'm wrong, why hasn't Fdev included a pve server by now? They know just as well as I do that it would divide the player base (which is already divided enough as it is) to the point of ruining the game.
Im curious what makes anyone think that if players had the option of a pve open server and a pvp open server why anyone would ever run their missions in the pvp server? I know I wouldn't and I can handle pvp situations just fine. Although if Fdev added a pve open server I would never play ED again.
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FDEV haven't put together a pve open server because they do not have the technical expertise to execute it.
The real test would be if they removed the pg cap and let the Mobius pgs merge without restriction. I'm sure that plenty of people would still opt for pvp open - maybe not people that wanted a strictly pve experience. That wouldn't bother you right? Only playing with people that were tolerant of and willing to participate in pvp?
You're not one of those predatory misanthropes that steals Halloween candy from little kids, or steals packages from doorsteps, or drowns puppies right? You wouldn't put a cricket in a microwave, pour salt on a snail, or puke in a friend's car right? Your not that guy that smokes in a no smoking hotel room, or spits in the customer's food at the fast food restaurant where you work right? You're not that guy Birdman. You're an empathetic bloke that can absolutely place yourself in the other person's shoes and have the ability to project what they might want out of the interaction. Like everyone else, you want positive social interaction.
Clearly I'm joking about here. PVE servers won't happen. If private groups currently exist as a game feature, placing a cap on them restricts their functionality - especially in the context of offering a non-pvp space. You're not opposed to this game having pg's right?
AP Birdman
Banned
Im not opposed to the game having PG but I do wish there was some way the game could be open only. I understand that in the games current state, open only isn't feasible but do wish there was a way for us all to get along in the same game mode.
So for me, I would prefer for Fdev to figure out a way for us all to play together instead of spending time separating us.
BTW, what is the pg cap at?
I fully disagree with you, and find it myopic that you would label others in such a way.
Not sure if that is just a projection on your part (says more about you than others) or if its just cynicism ( a malady of the times maybe).
People who play in open right now fall into many different groups, a PvE server, while not needed in my opinion, would only affect the group that has no interest in PvP at all, and many of them are already doing their mission running etc in either solo or pg. While some of that group might leave for a different server certainly the players who enjoy the encounters that happen in Open would not leave.
Or are you saying there is nothing in open that is worth the rebuy screen, if that is so why do you play in open at the moment, there must be some reason, and would a PvE server remove that reason?
I dont think one will happen, and I do think there are other things that should be addressed first, but I do not see a PvE mode as the death of open.
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I really don't know where the cap is right now. I know that I tried to join Mobius with my second account, and at the time I believe it was around 40k. So with the second account I joined the Mobius PVE PG. With my third account, I tried to join Mobius and Mobius PVE and had to join Mobius PVE America. So I know there is a cap, and I know that a fair number of people have joined. I honestly appreciate the generosity of the founders to offer the PGs - imo they are doing FDEV an enormous service.
I think we've had parts of this conversation before. I know you know I want PVP and WVW in game within insurance free scenario-based environments, and you want full pvp (not sure what your stance is on insurance).
I think the FDEV solution with full open pvp and pgs is a very cheap alternative to all of the pvp pve solutions that are out there. I honestly believe they thought the players would police themselves, but the gank focused PP and engineered special effects coupled with p2p and combat logging truly make that an unlikely ecological outcome.
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AP Birdman
Banned
That's exactly what I'm saying. Why would anyone risk a rebuy while running missions in open when they could just run their missions, risk free, in a pve server with no repercussions? I've said in other posts that if they did make a pve open server they would have to make some kind of incentive for the normal open mode, like double rewards for missions or something.
I play in open because I'm a pvper to the bone. There's nothing I love more in ED than player interactions even if it means getting my butt kicked but even I do the Robigo run in solo because why risk it in open? And that's my point, if I can be in a social server and run my missions with zero risk than why would I ever run missions in a PvP open server?
The only time I would ever play in the normal open server would be to PvP with people and because there are currently ZERO rewards and ZERO incentives for pvp other than self gratification, I believe the server would eventually just die.
To further divide an already dwindling player base would only ruin the game in my opinion. Not saying that ED is near death or anything but it doesn't have enough of a player base to divide it even further in my opinion.
And like I said before, I would much rather Fdev spend their time figuring out a way to bring us together instead of driving us apart.
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This is outright rubbish (no offence).
People have the option of doing that now with Solo and PGs and the majority of players play in Open (according to Frontier).
So an Open PvE mode would only make it a bit easier on folks new to the game as well as give PvE old timers a bit of security should Mobius ever quit.
This whole trying to force people into staying in Open all the time or not letting them know Open PvP is optional is disgusting.
And the cap is 20,000.
The Mobius Group did hit 25,000 before the cap and it broke the server, for 3 days people couldn't join, be kicked or leave the group.
So some PvP'ers who were in the group used it as a way to harass and kill CMDRs in the group, knowing they couldn't be kicked.
That's why there is now more than one Mobius Group.
AP Birdman
Banned
I respectfully disagree with you. If it's such a rubbish opinion than why didn't Fdev include a pve open server from the get go?
Because they were foolish. They thought that THEY had The MMO Holy Grail and their vision of "rare and meaningful PVP" would become reality.
They thought they could achieve what no other game designers had achieved. And failed.
But now their ego is preventing them from fixing it. To fix the failure they would need to create Open PVE, to UNITE people, not divide. Because as it is, players are badly divided. If you are not members of same PG, you cannot meet other PvE-only player. It divides essential part of playerbase. Which hurts the game badly.
But if Fdev fixed their failure, they would have to admit the failure. Own up their inability to predict something easily predicted. And that is bitter and hard thing to swallow. So instead there are attempts to "fix" game without doing the only thing that could truly fix it.
WorldsGreatestForumDad
Banned
Let me just fix this whole argument with 1 post. Its goes like this.
[video=youtube;0cgbZqR2AGI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cgbZqR2AGI[/video]
[video=youtube;0cgbZqR2AGI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cgbZqR2AGI[/video]
Could have very easily done it in the beginning. And it would be the PVE mode because you wouldn't PVP in it.. Just because you can do both in Open doesn't mean if the mode existed it wouldn't be the PVE mode
you mean all those people in OPEN who play fully in OPEN though they could play in solo or PGs? So you are claiming that you fear that Open would be a wasteland because PVE is the only reason to be there?
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The PG cap is set at a hard 20k because it was found out that when you go past that the PG gets extremely unstable and locks people from logging in and such. So since FDev were not sure how to fix it they capped it
Given that my post addresses the modes, including the freedom to choose who you want to play with, and is in the modes section of Elite Dangerous forums, I think you might have missed something.
"In the absence of..."
I've been playing this game since the Alpha, mostly in Open, and it's hardly a "full time PvP experience." At worst it's a blue-moon PvP experience, and at best it's a once or twice a year unless you go deliberately seek it out experience.
There's major three reasons why I think Elite: Dangerous doesn't have the player base other MMOs do:
1) It wasn't primarily designed as an MMO, and it shows. Between the peer-to-peer networking solution, the rather odd placement of the chat, window, "guild" support only now getting added to the game, and a host of other issues, it's not surprising that its player base is smaller than traditional MMOs.
2) It has a steep learning curve. In nearly all MMOs, the controls are the same as a bog standard FPS. Elite: Dangerous is different. It doesn't play like a FPS or a traditional MMO. It plays like a flight simulator, which is a rather niche game genre. As one famous wit put it:
3) It's a space game. Space games have always been kind of niche.
While invoking steam charts hardly proves anything, it's the only information we have about concurrent players of most games. When you compare Elite: Dangerous to the other space MMOs on Steam, Eve Online and Star Trek Online, its player base is generally more than the other two games combined, and frequently by a large margin at that. Keep in mind that the former is genuinely a "full time PvP experience," while the latter is a more traditional MMO, requiring explicit consent to engage in PvP.
I'm personally of the opinion that Frontier went the route it did to minimize operating costs. This game has no on-call game-master support in the game itself, which is needed for the type of shenanigans that can happen in pure PvE environments. Add in the programming chores that a PvE mode would require, I simply don't see that happening. If Frontier had wanted a PvE mode, they would've done the work when the mode system was being created, not years after the fact.
I have to agree here.
As for the "If Open PvE existed Open as we know it would die!!!" assertion it's nothing short of complete fallacy. People can already go to Solo/PG's to do whatever they like- not "without consequence" but without being ganked by those whose interest lies mainly in PvP.
And I do believe Tiwaz's statement wholeheartedly... it's the exact same crap Bethesda tried with Fallout 76 at present... a "marriage" of PvE and PvP and trying to give everyone a little something they want gives everyone nothing they want. Very few are actually satisfied by such a "solution". PvPer's are wholly upset to the gills because in order to initiate PvP activity, they have to use a ridiculous "love tap" mechanic. And PvEr's are left scratching their heads asking "Why bother in the first place? Why not have just made a separate mode?" And that's exactly what Bethesda is planning on doing now.
Every company out there tries to find this "Holy Grail", because it would be quite lucrative from a business perspective to corner the market with a monopoly where you've got some unique mechanic or gimmick that brings everyone together and we can all sing Kumbaya by the campfire. Only it never does- it always fails, because PvP and PvE are mutually exclusive... always have been, always will be. You might have players that consist of both types of activity they enjoy- sure. But that doesn't mean the two activities themselves aren't mutually exclusive.
I like mustard sometimes
I like Cool Whip sometimes
But mix the two together and it's probably THE most revolting combination you have
This utter fallacy that "everyone's a bit of something therefore PvE must take place in PvP territory" is nothing but absolute SPIN and always has been. You wanna go fly around with a bunch of pre-pubescent giggles because they wanna see "BaySplosionz" in space while others are trying to achieve a bit more meaning from their experience? Go right ahead. More power to ya! You can already do that.
Shoehorning PvErs into PvP arenas by force achieves not one iota of a "mutual" solution, it's only a means to serve PvP players their own solution. It's not "symbiotic" it's "asymmetrical", and the latter is exactly what some want because they're simply quite afraid to face others of better caliber than themselves. "Ooooh look, a trader without shields! Let me 'teach' them a lesson!" What condescending hogwash.
Every developer will try- and they will all fail. In at least 30+ years of trying not one of them has found the "Holy Grail of Video Gaming".
Because it's a myth.
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Personally? Because that's essentially what we have now. I'm of the opinion that the traditional MMO solution to the PvP problem pretty much ignored that the majority of players falls between the extremes of the PvP to PvE spectrum, forcing them to choose to be one or the other.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
You know you have it bad even when the OP realizes in the title he/she should have opened this thread.
To those wanting a PVE mode - I am also a defensive player, but you have plenty of tool to avoid PVPer: vigilance, appropriate outfitting of your ship, learning the basics how to successfully evade 90+% of the attacks and finally avoid CG and other high traffic systems when you can.
This actually enriches your gameplay and the challenge this game presents.
To those wanting a PVE mode - I am also a defensive player, but you have plenty of tool to avoid PVPer: vigilance, appropriate outfitting of your ship, learning the basics how to successfully evade 90+% of the attacks and finally avoid CG and other high traffic systems when you can.
This actually enriches your gameplay and the challenge this game presents.
Not really, it means (in Open and to an extent in a PG) that I have to make ship capable of avoiding (if not actually fighting) a PVP meta-build, I need to spend my game keeping an eye on the radar for hollow blips, and over all increases stress levels when I could Iif we had a proper PVE mode) be well you know, playing the game my way.
Yes it does, as the game is heavily instanced reducing the odds of seeing others outside of hubs and you can still block anyone you don't want to play with anyway, meaning you can severely limit the chance of PvP in Open.
Consider them NPCs that actually pose a threat. If you stress out by playing a game that has very limited threat in open... Why play a game at all?
Btw you can leave an attacker in 15 secs, you don't need superheavy build. Unless your FSD is taken out, that is when you lose.
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