Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!

[Stigbob]

It seems pretty clear that you either don't live in the U.S., or you are completely ignorant of the cost discrepancies that exist in the U.S. between being male, or female.

It is expensive to be female in this county, Stigbob, and I'm not referring to a Diva or Princess - just a normal woman. As a simple example, her basic haircut probably costs 3 times what yours does. That's not styling (yes, they might have to pay for that, men generally do not), or coloring, just the cut. Women here get unfairly gouged on their products and services, those that are needed, and those that are just wanted.

As a male, if you have a woman in your life, she costs money that you would otherwise not likely be spending, and that will hit your bank account, one way or the other. Those costs add up, and quickly. You can continue to look at it through the narrow microscope of just shared living expenses, if you like, but that would be foolish.

This is not to bash women, by the way - they are pretty awesome, actually. It's just the simple fact of the matter, and it doesn't matter if your money is completely separate. Those extra expenses still hit your bottom line too.

Get on with the merge, Frontier, so we can move forward on a unified platform.

Riôt

Living expenses cost a heck of a lot more than even Mrs Stigbobs hairdresser. We both earn so I base it on that. I have had partners who simply expected me to finance everything but thats no basis for a relationship and I binned them.

I also have hair clippers, which reduce my hair costs.

 

[amigacooke]

This seems to be a very emotive subject. Does anyone know or can guesstimate what percentage of active players (i.e. those that have at least played in the last couple of months or so) are non-Horizon players (please disregard Mac players, that is a different issue)?

macOS players have already been disregarded and dispossessed.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Having a life partner (of whatever flavour) vastly decreases the cost of living in every way.

Proof postive if any were ever needed you don't live in the real world, and your opinions thereof are flawed in every way.

Ever had a holiday where it was CHEAPER for two people and LESS THAN the cost of ONE person?

What about a meal in a restaurant?

Paying for TWO cars instead of one because you and the partner work in different places?

Clothes - shoes - medical care - the list goes on, and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.....

of how your statement is false in every way.

I'd call you out as trolling but in the four years we've been sparring on the forum I know you're being 100% genuine with that ridiculous statement.

There was also no need for the clarification "of whatever flavor" as that just makes you look like you are trying to hard to look like a liberal in much the same way as the phrase "I'm not racist, I have black** friends" shows that you DO make a distinction of colour, compared to actual liberals who just call them "friends", not "black friends".

** Same goes for gay, trans, gender fluid, white, indian, asian, french or german.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Useless post of the day goes to..........
CALIBER!!!

COME ON DOWN AND GET YOUR PRIZE!

Sorry no - that prize goes to:

OP Did you ever wondered that your (invalid) opinion and ideas are useless and unimportant ?

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...OR-EVERYONE!?p=7302327&viewfull=1#post7302327

 

[Stigbob]

macOS players have already been disregarded and dispossessed.

By apple not FDEV.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

This seems to be a very emotive subject. Does anyone know or can guesstimate what percentage of active players (i.e. those that have at least played in the last couple of months or so) are non-Horizon players (please disregard Mac players, that is a different issue)?

I guess what I am asking are we getting all upset over 10% of the active player base, or 5% or 2% or 0.0001% or actually zero percent. Maybe FD looked at the data and made the decision not to include Horizons into the base game because the need wasn't there or if the percentage is high, because they want to encourage players to upgrade.

M00ka - the need for base game owners to get Horizons happened the moment they added engineered NPC's with NO OPTION to roll back to the previous NPC version - and others as well as me have rightly pointed out a base game owner is at a severe disadvantage fighting engineered NPCs without engineered gear.

Encouraging players to PAY to upgrade so they have an equal chance to compete with undesired content is called a "cash grab" by any other name.

This is EXACTLY the basis behind for P2W microtrans game models.

At least call it what it is, eh?

 

[Stealthie]

No sarcasm. The current version of the game (Horizons+Beyond) offers nothing you can buy to gain an advantage over those who don't buy it. Everything purchasable is cosmetic.

As has already been pointed out, buying Horizons provides players with exactly that advantage.

 

[CMDR Beltane]

Fair for everyone? Haha, right - totally fair to let others pay so you can take advantage of it later for free? Interesting view on the term of "fair". Just buy it for a few bucks by now and done. Or don't, if its not that important to you.

 

[The Chairmaker]

Horizons was originally launched combined with the base game. THose who already had the base game got a discount on horizons purchase.

The player base went mental and demanded it be a separate dlc as they felt they were having to pay twice for something they had already bought. Frontier therefore listened and since then we have had the base game and horizons sold as distinct packages.

Frontier were actually thinking ahead with their original sales policy, however the buying public at large could not understand this strategy.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

oOoOo I Hope it is a good one. I never win anything.. Oh BTW you get the second prize for useless post.

Caliber

Its a Pie

And I also don't win anything ^_^ Happy days!

(just poking at you btw no harm meant )

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

This seems to be a very emotive subject. Does anyone know or can guesstimate what percentage of active players (i.e. those that have at least played in the last couple of months or so) are non-Horizon players (please disregard Mac players, that is a different issue)?

I guess what I am asking are we getting all upset over 10% of the active player base, or 5% or 2% or 0.0001% or actually zero percent. Maybe FD looked at the data and made the decision not to include Horizons into the base game because the need wasn't there or if the percentage is high, because they want to encourage players to upgrade.

you know you might be correct. I guess just that I have ran into several Non Horizons Cmdrs and so I (possably wrongly assumed) that there was more. You might be quite correct in that its a VERY low amount of cmdrs and then it really would not be a issue.

Horizons was originally launched combined with the base game. THose who already had the base game got a discount on horizons purchase.

The player base went mental and demanded it be a separate dlc as they felt they were having to pay twice for something they had already bought. Frontier therefore listened and since then we have had the base game and horizons sold as distinct packages.

Frontier were actually thinking ahead with their original sales policy, however the buying public at large could not understand this strategy.

I did not know this how interesting!

 

[Kaocraft]

Horizons was originally launched combined with the base game. THose who already had the base game got a discount on horizons purchase.

The player base went mental and demanded it be a separate dlc as they felt they were having to pay twice for something they had already bought. Frontier therefore listened and since then we have had the base game and horizons sold as distinct packages.

Frontier were actually thinking ahead with their original sales policy, however the buying public at large could not understand this strategy.

Yes this is true. However the way they explained it was super confusing and counterintuitive. Also the plan was always to STILL keep the "base game" on the market alongside Horizons, thus ensuring that every customer, new and old, would always be confused or annoyed at all times.

Interestingly, this is also how the Cobra IV was lost to most players, being relegated to a limited time preorder-only bonus. David Braben said anyone who owned both Vanilla Elite and Horizons would get the Cobra IV, even going so far as to suggest that any new players who bought the (then standalone and complete) Horizons game, could always go and purchase Vanilla Elite on top of that, just to unlock the Cobra IV.

edit: worth noting also that the playerbase "went mental" because of the price. There was no big push or demand for Frontier to turn Horizons into DLC; people just wanted them to give it to existing owners for free or at a much deeper discount than what was offered. Switching Horizons over to DLC was done less to appease the playerbase and more to avoid future confusion and fit better into the Steam ecosystem. (I think at one point Horizons was also briefly sold as an early access standalone product, though I might have dreamt that one)

 

[Siobhan]

It seems pretty clear that you either don't live in the U.S., or you are completely ignorant of the cost discrepancies that exist in the U.S. between being male, or female.

It is expensive to be female in this county, Stigbob, and I'm not referring to a Diva or Princess - just a normal woman. As a simple example, her basic haircut probably costs 3 times what yours does. That's not styling (yes, they might have to pay for that, men generally do not), or coloring, just the cut. Women here get unfairly gouged on their products and services, those that are needed, and those that are just wanted.

As a male, if you have a woman in your life, she costs money that you would otherwise not likely be spending, and that will hit your bank account, one way or the other. Those costs add up, and quickly. You can continue to look at it through the narrow microscope of just shared living expenses, if you like, but that would be foolish.

This is not to bash women, by the way - they are pretty awesome, actually. It's just the simple fact of the matter, and it doesn't matter if your money is completely separate. Those extra expenses still hit your bottom line too.

Get on with the merge, Frontier, so we can move forward on a unified platform.

Riôt

Quite aware of the costs of being female, dear.
But I don't live in the USA no, and have no desire to either.

 

[Vedmo]

As has already been pointed out, buying Horizons provides players with exactly that advantage.

I understand your viewpoint, I just don't agree. I look at it as you aren't buying an advantage over the playing field, but rather a new playing field.

There was a previous WoW analogy, and it was a good one. I was actually a hold out on buying Burning Crusade (the first expansion, as i had a very well geared level 60 and was still enjoying the first version of the game), but I never once thought of those who payed to continue the game with its new offerings as paying to win. I seriously can't think of a single video game I've ever played that offered an expansion that did not make pre-expansion charcters/gear/whatever obsolete, if anything I'd say Frontier has done a good job up until now of keeping basic accounts viable. It's the nature of the beast. You can live in the past if you want, but the future should keep on moving with or without.

 

[bitstorm]

edit: nm =p

 

[Riverside]

you know you might be correct. I guess just that I have ran into several Non Horizons Cmdrs and so I (possably wrongly assumed) that there was more. You might be quite correct in that its a VERY low amount of cmdrs and then it really would not be a issue.



I did not know this how interesting!

Whether the base game is included with Horizons or not isn't a factor - if someone buys horizons they must own the base game one way or another. It was always (and still is) possible to buy only the base game.

As Mooka rightly points out though, the actual number of active non-horizons players is unknown & may be very small.

For opt-in content (where you go to it like a CZ or wing mission rather than it coming to you like an interdicting pirate) I think it's fine to have the difficulty scale way up. Some players are better than others, and some players like to play closer to the edge than others. This content is for them.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

It seems pretty clear that you either don't live in the U.S., or you are completely ignorant of the cost discrepancies that exist in the U.S. between being male, or female.

It is expensive to be female in this county, Stigbob, and I'm not referring to a Diva or Princess - just a normal woman. As a simple example, her basic haircut probably costs 3 times what yours does. That's not styling (yes, they might have to pay for that, men generally do not), or coloring, just the cut. Women here get unfairly gouged on their products and services, those that are needed, and those that are just wanted.

As a male, if you have a woman in your life, she costs money that you would otherwise not likely be spending, and that will hit your bank account, one way or the other. Those costs add up, and quickly. You can continue to look at it through the narrow microscope of just shared living expenses, if you like, but that would be foolish.

This is not to bash women, by the way - they are pretty awesome, actually. It's just the simple fact of the matter, and it doesn't matter if your money is completely separate. Those extra expenses still hit your bottom line too.

Get on with the merge, Frontier, so we can move forward on a unified platform.

Riôt

Quite aware of the costs of being female, dear.
But I don't live in the USA no, and have no desire to either.

I don't think this pertains to the topic at hand.




think I am going to have this thread locked before it slows into topics that don't matter in elite. I think everyone understands whats was going on and its all now a mute point

 

[Kaocraft]

Having a life partner (of whatever flavour) vastly decreases the cost of living in every way.

I think you meant to say "room mate"?

 

[MrFailfactory]

Whether the base game is included with Horizons or not isn't a factor - if someone buys horizons they must own the base game one way or another. It was always (and still is) possible to buy only the base game.

As Mooka rightly points out though, the actual number of active non-horizons players is unknown & may be very small.

For opt-in content (where you go to it like a CZ or wing mission rather than it coming to you like an interdicting pirate) I think it's fine to have the difficulty scale way up. Some players are better than others, and some players like to play closer to the edge than others. This content is for them.

Bolded portion: I think it got overlooked, and that's my own fault, but I did already mention that Frontier has stated that they will be contacting base game owners some time after Beyond to discuss options. That leads me to believe that the number isn't that large, but it's good on Frontier to reach out to that group anyway, and try to take care of them. Due to this, Horizons being the only version of the game going into the next paid DLC is almost certain. I honestly hope that Frontier just upgrades those folks for free, at this point. No reason to charge them money, just send them an email with the code, and good instructions (including Steam-specific instructions) for how to upgrade properly.

Riôt

 

[Rafe Zetter]

TRUTH.

Not being funny guys but if you can't afford Horizons after THREE YEARS, you may need to get your finances sorted.

Even I can afford AAA games & high-end gaming devices with just a bit of informed decision making IRL, and I'm on benefits.

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Does everyone really not know that there are people living in what we consider third world countries with access to a computer and the internet? Who may decide the one small luxury they can afford in an otherwise bland life is to occasionally play internet spaceships, because being in space is what they dream about, on a 10 year old 3rd hand "spare parts" machine.


Can EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, STOP with the "it's only £5 / $7" whatever. You should all be so lucky to be so blase about money.

oh PS - glad my taxes are helping you stay at home and play games with "high -end devices" instead of doing something more socially productive unik0rn. No your personal circumstances are not a good enough reason to brag about it (yes I know what they are to a degree, you've mentioned it several times). Lucky for you, you live in a country where you get given money for free - without having to do anything for it.

Not everyone is as fortunate, so maybe you should be a bit more thankful and a bit less judgemental on a persons financial abilites eh?

You earned both barrels of that mate**, because you've been taking that free money you get for granted for many many years. Should have kept quiet.

** as in "give to him, both barrels" a euphamism for blowing someone away with a shotgun.

And yes I've been that poor, I've been homeless and slept rough until a kind person gave me a room for a few months - I've been so broke I was picking up pennies dropped on the street to buy a loaf of bread to eat "as is" - I'd recommend that experience to everyone - money looks VERY different after that.

*Shakes head* you really are so clueless, all of you, so clueless of just how priviledged you are.