Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!

[MrFailfactory]

@Siobahn - having a woman in your life costs money. A lot of it. Regardless of whether or not she expects it, asks for it, or whether or not you have children together. This is not sexist, it is a fact.

@Rafe - When I went to sleep last night, you had zero posts in this thread in the first couple of pages. I wake up this morning, and there you are, inserted multiple times. Lifted ban of some sort?

@Everyone - I don't have the quote, but Frontier did state that they were going to be contacting base game holders individually via email some time after Beyond to discuss options. The merge is almost certainly coming, and I honestly don't care if they just get upgraded for free at this point in the game. Just get everyone on the same platform, the entitled of the LEP'er camp will have their cry, and we can all move forward.

Electronic gaming is an expensive hobby - there is an initial cost for hardware, plus ongoing costs to continue playing (especially online), the cost of the software, and there is also the opportunity cost of doing it in the first place. My point earlier was that if $30 (let alone $8) is something you have to scrape over time to save, then you should not be gaming. You, quite simply, cannot afford the luxury, and should be putting that money elsewhere. What you want doesn't matter - facts don't care about feelings, and if the fact of the matter is that gaming is something you cannot afford, then you should not be doing it, and the rest of the community should not be held back by it. End of story.

Riôt

 

[Stigbob]

@Siobahn - having a woman in your life costs money. A lot of it. Regardless of whether or not she expects it, asks for it, or whether or not you have children together. This is not sexist, it is a fact.

Having a life partner (of whatever flavour) vastly decreases the cost of living in every way.

 

[xondk]

@Siobahn - having a woman in your life costs money. A lot of it. Regardless of whether or not she expects it, asks for it, or whether or not you have children together. This is not sexist, it is a fact.

@Rafe - When I went to sleep last night, you had zero posts in this thread in the first couple of pages. I wake up this morning, and there you are, inserted multiple times. Lifted ban of some sort?

@Everyone - I don't have the quote, but Frontier did state that they were going to be contacting base game holders individually via email some time after Beyond to discuss options. The merge is almost certainly coming, and I honestly don't care if they just get upgraded for free at this point in the game. Just get everyone on the same platform, the entitled of the LEP'er camp will have their cry, and we can all move forward.

Electronic gaming is an expensive hobby - there is an initial cost for hardware, plus ongoing costs to continue playing (especially online), the cost of the software, and there is also the opportunity cost of doing it in the first place. My point earlier was that if $30 (let alone $8) is something you have to scrape over time to save, then you should not be gaming. You, quite simply, cannot afford the luxury, and should be putting that money elsewhere. What you want doesn't matter - facts don't care about feelings, and if the fact of the matter is that gaming is something you cannot afford, then you should not be doing it, and the rest of the community should not be held back by it. End of story.

Riôt

Definitely but unfortunately, being 'left out' is a gigantic pressure on many, because as generally those that have things look down on those that do not, so people will do whatever they can to be part of those that can do things even if they cannot afford it.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

For the game to run around it needs to create money, how would they fund expansions if not buy the fact that people buy them?

As for you being elevated, you are not, you are on the same level as all horizon players, and the none horizon players are on the same level as those that haven't bought horizon.

Comparing one to the other makes no sense, you might as well be saying that since you have a 2 year old tv, and someone else buys a new tv this year, you should get a new tv as well. And that is simply not how it works.

As a Horizons player you are stronger then a non horizons player by a county mile if you Eng anything. You are stronger faster can shoot faster can shoot longer distances. You can put more power hungry things in it you can run stronger boosters etc etc.. A Fully A rated stock ship can't hold a candle to a fully eng one.. Granted if they are a good pilot then yes I suppose they could do okay. Its a disadvantage. I am not suggesting giving people who have not already bought horizons and are on the base game to get a update for free to bring them to horizons I am asking if they could just stop selling the base game and it just be horizons. If anything they could offer horizons for a low price to people who are non horizons. My reasons behind this is the game is HEAVILY tilted to the fact you are running horizons. Its not a optional dlc anymore its a essential part of this game now...

As for people thinking I don't have horizons I do.. have had it from day one. almost 2000 hrs now. I dont regret it. I have spent my own money helping others to get horizons so they can enjoy all of elite. Some people live on a tight budget. Its not because they are not responsible. Illness can break someones bank account especially in the USA. Don't assume they are bad with money unless you know what they are doing. You would be surprised how quickly you can fall. And if helping CMDRS who are less fortunate then me enjoy this awesome game is bad. then trow my rear in jail because I am going to keep doing it. I also don't just give everyone who asks they have to be willing and wanting elite

 

[Caliber_az]

165 posts later and both sides are still entrenched as ever.

So they won their just rewards
Now they stood before the treasure
On the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it
Peace on earth, was all it said.

One tin solder rides away.

Caliber

 

[MrFailfactory]

Having a life partner (of whatever flavour) vastly decreases the cost of living in every way.

It seems pretty clear that you either don't live in the U.S., or you are completely ignorant of the cost discrepancies that exist in the U.S. between being male, or female.

It is expensive to be female in this county, Stigbob, and I'm not referring to a Diva or Princess - just a normal woman. As a simple example, her basic haircut probably costs 3 times what yours does. That's not styling (yes, they might have to pay for that, men generally do not), or coloring, just the cut. Women here get unfairly gouged on their products and services, those that are needed, and those that are just wanted.

As a male, if you have a woman in your life, she costs money that you would otherwise not likely be spending, and that will hit your bank account, one way or the other. Those costs add up, and quickly. You can continue to look at it through the narrow microscope of just shared living expenses, if you like, but that would be foolish.

This is not to bash women, by the way - they are pretty awesome, actually. It's just the simple fact of the matter, and it doesn't matter if your money is completely separate. Those extra expenses still hit your bottom line too.

Get on with the merge, Frontier, so we can move forward on a unified platform.

Riôt

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

165 posts later and both sides are still entrenched as ever.

So they won their just rewards
Now they stood before the treasure
On the mountain dark and red
Turned the stone and looked beneath it
Peace on earth, was all it said.

One tin solder rides away.

Caliber

Useless post of the day goes to..........
CALIBER!!!

COME ON DOWN AND GET YOUR PRIZE!

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Wow has been around longer appeals toa wider audience. Not played it myself or likely to. When they release new dlc there is usually a drop in price of base or consolidation. Its a licenced game u never really own it.

What about Microsoft pricing ?


Is this just snowflakes why have to pay for stuff that cost money to create?

If u call a plumber they expect to be paid even if they don't do anything . Its for there time.

There are other more adult specific example that cant be mentioned here.

do understand the concept of break even

marginal cost


There is a cash for credit scandal going on right now.

Part one is irrelevant - ALL game devs take that risk when they make a game - you can't hold new players to "ransom" because you didn't make as much money as you wanted, so claiming Blizzard dropped the price and consolidated "to be nice coz they are filty rich" (which is the meaning of what you said) is a lie.

Because Turbine did it with LOTRO
Zenimax did it with TESO
CCP with Eve Online
Cryptic studuois with Neverwinte

shall I continue?

Licencing ALSO irrelevant - thats the same for every game wih an "always online" business model everywhere.
Microsoft pricing - irrelevant.

Sure pay money for stuff that costs to make - but that isn't what the OP is saying - please re-read the OP and maybe this post to get a better grasp, as I can't make it any easier to understand :

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...OR-EVERYONE!?p=7301646&viewfull=1#post7301646

Yes we understand the concept of "break even" - or some of us anyway - but why don't you take a look at FDev's financials? in 2012 when FDev were just another bottom of the food chain developer with ZERO AAA titels to thier name thier share price was LESS THAN £1.50 GBP - in 2018 after three titles launched on the back of the ED KS success FDEv share price hit an all time high of £18.88 an increase in value of 1250%.** DB is now a millionare as a result. ED has made more than enough to cover the costs of it's ongoing development, if FDev needs more money because they want to make more games that's on them, not us.

What has paying for a tradesmans time got to do with it? "Game developing" and "work by the hour" business models are entirely different - just what are you trying to say?

What has cash for credit scandal got to do with Horizons NPC's in the base game - ANOTHER irrelevant apologist smokescreen.

**(interestingly it's nose dived in the last 6 months to £7.60 - that's a loss in value of 59% - in share terms it's "tanking" - if you have shares in FDev, sell them.)

 

[Rafe Zetter]

OP Did you ever wondered that your (invalid) opinion and ideas are useless and unimportant ?

bloody hell, even I've NEVER been that blatent. why is this post still here seven hours later?

not allowed to report this using "report" so I'm highlighting that here.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

People are going to flip when the next paid expansion comes along.

Why?

It's expected - and standard for the industry, no "flipping" required.

Now, if it's crap or borked (as usual) or adds stuff FDev thought was a good idea but wasn't (CdC, powerplay, multicrew) that's a different kettle of apples and "flipping" is DEFINITELY going to happen.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

while i feel the discussion has drifted off from the OP somewhat, it seems that there are two distinct and almost exlusive arguments being... erm... argued... here.


EDIT BIG MISTAKE (missed the NON in the below line).

One is : Non Horizons players are being forced to engage with superior emenies armed with ships, weapons and engineering that they don't have access to, thus FD should ditch the original game and make Horizons the defacto base game.
Second is: Horizons is so cheap you should just buy it.

While I understand the second point, I feel that the principle is being lost here.

ED is not a free to play. if the base Elite was free, then I can understand the players becoming disadvantaged once they reached master and start going up against engineered opponents. But it's not... so casual players who bought the original Elite a year or so ago and only managed to play it a few hours a week or per month, or maybe didnt get around to playing it for a year or so (I have games I've purchased two or three years ago but haven't got round to playing yet) might feel a bit hard done by... I will admit that this demographic is likely a very, very slim one, however.

The fact is, like an Apple PC or phone, the functionality is being whittled away as time passes. It's not about the cost, it's about the principle of encouraging / forcing users to upgrade.
Why did I mentione apple? Well, as time goes by, apple drop compatibility of older computers' functions such as updating the browser to modern standards, syncing email and address book, contacts etc. Functions that once worked perfectly actually cease to work, so the old idea that a computer is as capable as the day you bought it no longer holds.

In effect, the computers or phones you once relied on, while still being physically as powerful as they were on the day of purchase (bar battery life, potentially) that are still well powerful enough for daily use are being hamstrung with a less and less favourable environment until they become painful to operate.

As ED marches on, those players who had no interest in purchasing a DLC are similarly hamstrung WITHOUT CHOICE.

It's not questioning whether the stingy FudWack can't afford a fiver, it's about a purchase, tied to a mandatory update cycle linked to an online account is totally at the behest of the publisher and the owner has ZERO say in the direction of that game.

Compare this to NMS... Believer it or not, are actually some owners who prefer the original, simple version of the game without all the minecraft like crafting and complex ship repairs etc. THey still have the original DVD that they can fire up and use without patching or downloading and ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME THEY PURCHASED.

TL;DR/DC
ED is a glorified prepaid license not a purchase.

Don't get me wrong, I bought in at Alpha level and have no regrets. It's just I see that people are arguing the principle of something with statements like "But it's only $7" Well in some places $7 is an entire mornings' salary after paying maybe several days salary for the base game. But again that's not the point: even more than that, it's the principle of a purchase belonging to the purchaser rather than purchasing a zero guarantee license at the behest of the publisher.

Well said Cmdr, but I said all that this morning and they still ain't getting it (or listening). (but in some places $7 is an entire WEEKS salary, and they still have access to computers and the internet.)

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Stop ruining “The Dark Wheel” novella for me please.

What? Wow, I've been accused of a few things but that's a first, on this or any other forum ever - "ruining a novella written 34 years ago".


Could you be any further away from the OP's point?

Remind me how much an Anaconda is in Elite credits. I live in London - Millionaires and rough sleeper in the same place.

err?

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Yup, me too

Basically if you don't own the expansion, then don't whine about it.
We own it, we are happy to pay for it, deal with it.

Easy as that

Fly safe

Interesting viewpoint - and utterly wrong.

OP's point (again - I'm really trying here people, at least meet me halfway?)

You order a meatfeast pizza. (base game) as advertised it has Spicy meatballs, pepperoni and BBQ chicken.

What arrives is a meatfeast pizza with added pineapple, anchovies, jalapeno's and a thick spreading of peanut butter on top. (base game includes Horizons assets)

You have a mild peanut allergy and tell them you don't want it, and ask them for what you ordered - they tell you ALL pizza's everywhere regardless of the order comes with extra pineapple, anchovies, jalapeno's and a thick spreading of peanut butter on top and you cannot have the basic pizza as advertised. (There is NO WARNING that the base game will have Horizons assets in it (NPC's with engineered gear) and to have the desired experience FDev are forcing upon you that YOU HAVE TO BUY HORIZONS AS WELL)

Then someone straps you down and makes you eat it anyway. (NPC's with engineered gear attacking you - EVERYWHERE you go - with NO CHOICE to have the original NPC's WITHOUT engineered gear)

Still happy?

Thought not.

(ever complained about ANYTHING, EVER, because it wasn't what was advertised? Same principle)

 

[M00ka]

This seems to be a very emotive subject. Does anyone know or can guesstimate what percentage of active players (i.e. those that have at least played in the last couple of months or so) are non-Horizon players (please disregard Mac players, that is a different issue)?

I guess what I am asking are we getting all upset over 10% of the active player base, or 5% or 2% or 0.0001% or actually zero percent. Maybe FD looked at the data and made the decision not to include Horizons into the base game because the need wasn't there or if the percentage is high, because they want to encourage players to upgrade.

 

[tagos]

You can pick up Horizons for a fiver in the Steam sale.

Problem solved.

 

[Caliber_az]

Useless post of the day goes to..........
CALIBER!!!

COME ON DOWN AND GET YOUR PRIZE!

oOoOo I Hope it is a good one. I never win anything.. Oh BTW you get the second prize for useless post.

Caliber

 

[Vedmo]

Sarcasm?

That has to be sarcasm, right?

No sarcasm. The current version of the game (Horizons+Beyond) offers nothing you can buy to gain an advantage over those who don't buy it. Everything purchasable is cosmetic.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

** I always asume its a set up and its glued to the floor.

***Where r you in the world? I live in Capitalist London paid £150 before release.

**Yet you fell able to tell everyone else what to do. Are you going to volunteer?

So if you're not willing to give him the money - or group together to help him buy it - it's not quite such a meaningless amount after all is it?

** Didn't say in was mingles. Highlighted that it was at a 76% discount

**I think that was just me.

** I always asume its a set up and its glued to the floor.


**Maybe Frontier can set a charity to help gamers in need . Who are unable to afford to game.

Tried the doing the lottery? Euro near 101m oh wait its cost £2.50 to enter.


Why not raise these directly with the Chairman of the company.


I would like a shiny anaconda ? Can I just fly to Hutton Orbital and pick up the free One?

first off - can you STOP adding in things to my quote I DID NOT SAY? That's STRICTLY against the forum posting rules.

1 - fair enough.
2 - another capitalist city in the UK - what's your point? (the fact you called it "capitalist" is interesting and says a great deal about you and your country of origin which isn't the UK, so your viewpoints on many things, including this, have been programmed by that culture)
3 - I'm not TELLING people what to do - I'm suggesting that if people think the cost of Horizons is so cheap as to be essentially meaningless pocketchange they might wish to step forward and put thier money on the table as well as thier rhetoric. If everyone who said "it's ridiculously cheap" (including you) put in 50p (the same value as you wouldn't even stop to pick up off the floor) the OP would have enough to buy Horizons and we can all get on with our lives.

I don't need to chip in money, because I UNDERSTAND his viewpoint, and UNDERSTAND that money doesn't just appear out of thin air and quite a lot of the time you can't just "make money" when you need it, society has changed from 40 years ago when you could just go to a persons house and offer to wash thier car or mow thier lawns for a few pounds. I'm NOT THE ONE SAYING "it's just $7, get yo' broke a** to the store and buy it you broke bum".

4 - WTH is mingles?
5 - could well be - wouldn't be the first time.
6 - see #1 (but what about all those times you missed out when it wasn't? Your loss, but my gain)
7 - they support a charity already - have you not been paying attention?
8 - lottery - I'm not even going comment, ridiculous argument
9 - which chairman? The one in the seat or the ones running the company? FDev is run by committee now (aka board members and shareholders) how many of these do you suggest I talk to exactly? The half dozen board members or the millions of shareholders the company is under obligation to keep happy with money?

You don't understand very much about the world we live in do you?

However IF I could talk to DB, I'd love to - face to face would be ideal but as I wouldn't get within 100 feet of him at his offices and I'm NOT going to pay to go to an expo (that he wouldn't attend anyway) just to do that, do you know his direct email instead?

No? Then why suggest it?

 

[Rafe Zetter]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...OR-EVERYONE!?p=7302463&viewfull=1#post7302463

Mods, as I'm not allowed to "report" stuff (not even report transgressions against me, which is a bloody stupid rule that needs to be changed) - This post contains a quote with things in it I DID NOT SAY - please check my ORIGINAL post for verification and take approproate measures.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Agreed: only Horizons (so basegame owners can upgrade) and CMDR Deluxe (for new players) should be available.

Yep this I certainly agree with!