Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!

[Riverside]

Bolded portion: I think it got overlooked, and that's my own fault, but I did already mention that Frontier has stated that they will be contacting base game owners some time after Beyond to discuss options. That leads me to believe that the number isn't that large, but it's good on Frontier to reach out to that group anyway, and try to take care of them. Due to this, Horizons being the only version of the game going into the next paid DLC is almost certain. I honestly hope that Frontier just upgrades those folks for free, at this point. No reason to charge them money, just send them an email with the code, and good instructions (including Steam-specific instructions) for how to upgrade properly.

Riôt

I think Frontier have played themselves into a corner and what you describe is probably one of the only moves they can make, yes.

otoh they could remove the ability for non-horizons owners to continue to play until they upgrade, which would work for a larger but inactive non-horizons playerbase.

 

[Riverside]

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Does everyone really not know that there are people living in what we consider third world countries with access to a computer and the internet? Who may decide the one small luxury they can afford in an otherwise bland life is to occasionally play internet spaceships, because being in space is what they dream about, on a 10 year old 3rd hand "spare parts" machine.


Can EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, STOP with the "it's only £5 / $7" whatever. You should all be so lucky to be so blase about money.

oh PS - glad my taxes are helping you stay at home and play games with "high -end devices" instead of doing something more socially productive unik0rn. No your personal circumstances are not a good enough reason to brag about it (yes I know what they are to a degree, you've mentioned it several times). Lucky for you, you live in a country where you get given money for free - without having to do anything for it.

Not everyone is as fortunate, so maybe you should be a bit more thankful and a bit less judgemental on a persons financial abilites eh?

You earned both barrels of that mate**, because you've been taking that free money you get for granted for many many years. Should have kept quiet.

** as in "give to him, both barrels" a euphamism for blowing someone away with a shotgun.

And yes I've been that poor, I've been homeless and slept rough until a kind person gave me a room for a few months - I've been so broke I was picking up pennies dropped on the street to buy a loaf of bread to eat "as is" - I'd recommend that experience to everyone - money looks VERY different after that.

*Shakes head* you really are so clueless, all of you, so clueless of just how priviledged you are.

I agree that I would not be happy to have to pay extra to be able to continue to play a game I already payed for but I think you are overstating your case

If I were so close to the breadline that £5 (the current price Horizons is on sale for) was a problem I would have bigger issues than being able to continue to play computer games. I probably would have sold my gaming PC/Console at that point anyway.

I can legitimately see why a long term educational explorer might have no interest in paying for features they have no use for.

 

[xondk]

As a Horizons player you are stronger then a non horizons player by a county mile if you Eng anything. You are stronger faster can shoot faster can shoot longer distances. You can put more power hungry things in it you can run stronger boosters etc etc.. A Fully A rated stock ship can't hold a candle to a fully eng one.. Granted if they are a good pilot then yes I suppose they could do okay. Its a disadvantage. I am not suggesting giving people who have not already bought horizons and are on the base game to get a update for free to bring them to horizons I am asking if they could just stop selling the base game and it just be horizons. If anything they could offer horizons for a low price to people who are non horizons. My reasons behind this is the game is HEAVILY tilted to the fact you are running horizons. Its not a optional dlc anymore its a essential part of this game now...

As for people thinking I don't have horizons I do.. have had it from day one. almost 2000 hrs now. I dont regret it. I have spent my own money helping others to get horizons so they can enjoy all of elite. Some people live on a tight budget. Its not because they are not responsible. Illness can break someones bank account especially in the USA. Don't assume they are bad with money unless you know what they are doing. You would be surprised how quickly you can fall. And if helping CMDRS who are less fortunate then me enjoy this awesome game is bad. then trow my rear in jail because I am going to keep doing it. I also don't just give everyone who asks they have to be willing and wanting elite

Yes, a horizon player has advantages another doesn't.
But again, it is the same, the guy that bought a cheap tv 2 years ago only got 1080p, but the guy that buys it today gets 4k, without a doubt upgrading gives you an advantage, but you cannot compare it like that and expect an equal outcome, ever, expansions will always affect gameplay, that does not mean everyone should get them for free, yes, many people can afford them, but others cannot, and that is a sucky situation to be in, since no one wants to feel like a second rate player, they want to be where everyone else is.

As I wrote, I know the situation, I've been in it, and as I also wrote, once next paid expansion is out they definitely should merge previous expansions into base, and many games do that.

It is great that you've helped people, but socioeconomic status should not really affect game development, if you cannot afford an expansion it sucks, but that does not mean the game should be changed so simply everyone gets it, content isn't free to make, something needs to pay the bills regardless of price on the expansion, that we have gotten these updates as part of horizon is very generous by frontier.
And while I am aware that in the USA the normal person can get royally messed up economy wise at no fault of their own, when you do not have a safety net in that society, but I never once stated that what you wanted is bad, I'm stating it isn't viable unless you base the games profit around other things. If or if not frontier makes enough from cosmetics to run it entirely on that I do not know, but until it does giving the game away for free would be a bad economic choice and might lead to the game getting in trouble and unable to be staffed and improved properly, and I do not think anyone would want that.

So yeah, I get it, and it sucks, but the wheels need to keep turning or the game that its players enjoy might suffer, and I would hope no player would want that, simply because they cannot afford it.

 

[Underhook]

Comparatively unplayable? Yes, compared to Horizons owners, base game owners cannot play Horizons content. It's because they didn't pay for Horizons. Locked out of Thargoid combat? Yeah, because they didn't pay for Horizons, Thargoids came in 2.4 The Return, which was the last part of Horizons.

We were all just given a year's worth of content for free, now you demanding more? In caps? If you think Fdev do good work, and want access to the Horizons gameplay, then pay Fdev for their work. A cash grab is selling a low/no value product under the pretense it is a high value product. Fdev do no such thing. In fact, they even lowered the prices of all their cosmetics recently. I'm no great fan of capitalism, but Fdev are fair and decent business people.

I think the OP's point was that People who did not purchase Horizons are having to fight against NPC ships that use Horizons gear. That's not fair.

 

[Garbarrage]

I'm missing out on so much (I'm led to believe) because I don't have a VR headset. I'm pretty certain that at this stage FD owe me an Oculus or a Vive. Of course, this would be fairly pointless without a graphics card upgrade (and possibly a new power supply), and probably a HOTAS. Which should probably also be included with the base game at this point.

 

[Morbad]

For the game to run around it needs to create money, how would they fund expansions if not buy the fact that people buy them?

I'm not at all convinced that Frontier's revenue would be reduced by giving Horizons to all owners of the base game. They already sell it for peanuts and the potential market for expansion sales may very well be no larger than the market for other products that would open up by making the expansion free.

Selling a single version of the game for the current price of Horizons + the base game, and upgrading the small fraction of people who for whatever reason might be inclined to drop ten dollars on Horizons, but haven't yet, could very well increase revenue.

As for you being elevated, you are not, you are on the same level as all horizon players, and the none horizon players are on the same level as those that haven't bought horizon.

I am elevated over other players playing the same game, and my characters over other characters that exist in the same world, by virtue of being a Horizons owner.

Comparing one to the other makes no sense, you might as well be saying that since you have a 2 year old tv, and someone else buys a new tv this year, you should get a new tv as well. And that is simply not how it works.

Your analogy is significantly less than analogous. A TV is a physical object that has physical costs behind it. I am also not affected by the age of my neighbor's TV.

A game licence has no cost to produce, software has essentially no transmition/delivery costs, and I am most certainly affected by other players playing the same game not having access to the same content and the same opportunities as my characters do.

No one is deprived of anything, probably not even sales/revenue, by making an old expansion free. However, every player would benefit.

As a simple example, her basic haircut probably costs 3 times what yours does.

I can't help but scoff at the idea of paying for such a thing and constantly recommend to my wife (and pretty much everyone else) that she do the same thing to her hair as I do to mine...shave it all off with a beard trimmer.

Hair is vanity at best, and a threat to health and hygiene at worst. I've thought about getting all of mine permanently removed, except for my eyelashes and eyebrows, which still serve a purpose.

Of course, I'm not going to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do with their own hair, just scoff at them.

Women here get unfairly gouged on their products and services, those that are needed, and those that are just wanted.

This is true most places.

As a male, if you have a woman in your life, she costs money that you would otherwise not likely be spending, and that will hit your bank account, one way or the other. Those costs add up, and quickly. You can continue to look at it through the narrow microscope of just shared living expenses, if you like, but that would be foolish.

My wife has ten years more school than I do and makes about ten times as much money. I am vastly better off in most ways, especially financially, with her than without her.

I guess what I am asking are we getting all upset over 10% of the active player base, or 5% or 2% or 0.0001% or actually zero percent.

The numbers are of little relevance to me. It's a matter of principle.

I'm not sure one way or the other if Frontier would be harmed in some way by making seasons free after a certain point,, but I know that none of us would.

I'm missing out on so much (I'm led to believe) because I don't have a VR headset. I'm pretty certain that at this stage FD owe me an Oculus or a Vive. Of course, this would be fairly pointless without a graphics card upgrade (and possibly a new power supply), and probably a HOTAS. Which should probably also be included with the base game at this point.

Not even close to the same argument.

 

[Miko]

Definately it delivered some of the best value for money I've ever had in gaming. You always get some minor bugs.

Did you say minor bugs? .

No wonder FDev can laugh all the way to the bank and release untested updates with this kind of fan base.

 

[Stigbob]

Proof postive if any were ever needed you don't live in the real world, and your opinions thereof are flawed in every way.

Ever had a holiday where it was CHEAPER for two people and LESS THAN the cost of ONE person?

What about a meal in a restaurant?

Paying for TWO cars instead of one because you and the partner work in different places?

Clothes - shoes - medical care - the list goes on, and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on,and on, and on,, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.....

of how your statement is false in every way.

I'd call you out as trolling but in the four years we've been sparring on the forum I know you're being 100% genuine with that ridiculous statement.

There was also no need for the clarification "of whatever flavor" as that just makes you look like you are trying to hard to look like a liberal in much the same way as the phrase "I'm not racist, I have black** friends" shows that you DO make a distinction of colour, compared to actual liberals who just call them "friends", not "black friends".

** Same goes for gay, trans, gender fluid, white, indian, asian, french or german.

Utter rubbish when you have two wages coming in you have twice the spending power, yet all the costs of living are shared and therefore much cheaper.

 

[sollisb]

Comparatively unplayable? Yes, compared to Horizons owners, base game owners cannot play Horizons content. It's because they didn't pay for Horizons. Locked out of Thargoid combat? Yeah, because they didn't pay for Horizons, Thargoids came in 2.4 The Return, which was the last part of Horizons.

We were all just given a year's worth of content for free, now you demanding more? In caps? If you think Fdev do good work, and want access to the Horizons gameplay, then pay Fdev for their work. A cash grab is selling a low/no value product under the pretense it is a high value product. Fdev do no such thing. In fact, they even lowered the prices of all their cosmetics recently. I'm no great fan of capitalism, but Fdev are fair and decent business people.

Res Sites are not Horizons content, CZ's are not Horizons content. Both are there to start in the combat ranks, but are now only do-able in Horizons engineered ships.

The last years content was free, how-ever it was update and shoring up of past content, which is why it was free. We paid for Horizons and the follow on stuff this year is part of it. So saying was 'free' is being disingenuous.

A cash grab is selling anything at price point at which people will pay for it. Selling the commander edition for £12 is accepting that's the price to get new players to buy it. It basically says FDev value their game at £12.

Fair and decent business people to not deploy the biggest release of the year, full of bugs and then trot off on their holidays.

 

[Stigbob]

I think you meant to say "room mate"?

Nope.

 

[Stigbob]

Did you say minor bugs? .

No wonder FDev can laugh all the way to the bank and release untested updates with this kind of fan base.

Given I enjoy the game and will buy any further expansions making content with players like me in mind would be a good move.

 

[sollisb]

No one is deprived of anything, probably not even sales/revenue, by making an old expansion free. However, every player would benefit.

How would I benefit? In fact I'd be very urined-off if it turns out they give Horizons for free. After all was it not our money in paying for the product that helped them stay in business? And the result of that is them then saying thanks, but now everyone else can have it for free.

 

[Stigbob]

How would I benefit? In fact I'd be very urined-off if it turns out they give Horizons for free. After all was it not our money in paying for the product that helped them stay in business? And the result of that is them then saying thanks, but now everyone else can have it for free.

Its more likely they'll just stop selling the base game and horizons as seperate things in future. Roll them both together as the new base game and sell further expansions seperately.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Does everyone really not know that there are people living in what we consider third world countries with access to a computer and the internet? Who may decide the one small luxury they can afford in an otherwise bland life is to occasionally play internet spaceships, because being in space is what they dream about, on a 10 year old 3rd hand "spare parts" machine.


Can EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, STOP with the "it's only £5 / $7" whatever. You should all be so lucky to be so blase about money.

oh PS - glad my taxes are helping you stay at home and play games with "high -end devices" instead of doing something more socially productive unik0rn. No your personal circumstances are not a good enough reason to brag about it (yes I know what they are to a degree, you've mentioned it several times). Lucky for you, you live in a country where you get given money for free - without having to do anything for it.

Not everyone is as fortunate, so maybe you should be a bit more thankful and a bit less judgemental on a persons financial abilites eh?

You earned both barrels of that mate**, because you've been taking that free money you get for granted for many many years. Should have kept quiet.

** as in "give to him, both barrels" a euphamism for blowing someone away with a shotgun.

And yes I've been that poor, I've been homeless and slept rough until a kind person gave me a room for a few months - I've been so broke I was picking up pennies dropped on the street to buy a loaf of bread to eat "as is" - I'd recommend that experience to everyone - money looks VERY different after that.

*Shakes head* you really are so clueless, all of you, so clueless of just how priviledged you are.

I'm a sociopath. Do you expect me to care?

I stopped being able to years ago. These days other people are just tools as far as I'm concerned.

No different to how I was used growing up.

I'm not sorry.

 

[Morbad]

How would I benefit?

By having more players playing the same game.

If you want a single player game, then maybe you wouldn't benefit. But any hopes for a single player/offline variant of the game died well before release.

In fact I'd be very urined-off if it turns out they give Horizons for free. After all was it not our money in paying for the product that helped them stay in business? And the result of that is them then saying thanks, but now everyone else can have it for free.

You lose nothing by someone else gaining what you have. The game is not a physical object and it's license explicitly prohibits resale. Scarcity isn't a factor and there is no rational reason why it would depreciate for you.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

Why does everyone keep saying this?

Does everyone really not know that there are people living in what we consider third world countries with access to a computer and the internet? Who may decide the one small luxury they can afford in an otherwise bland life is to occasionally play internet spaceships, because being in space is what they dream about, on a 10 year old 3rd hand "spare parts" machine.


Can EVERYONE and I mean EVERYONE, STOP with the "it's only £5 / $7" whatever. You should all be so lucky to be so blase about money.

oh PS - glad my taxes are helping you stay at home and play games with "high -end devices" instead of doing something more socially productive unik0rn. No your personal circumstances are not a good enough reason to brag about it (yes I know what they are to a degree, you've mentioned it several times). Lucky for you, you live in a country where you get given money for free - without having to do anything for it.

Not everyone is as fortunate, so maybe you should be a bit more thankful and a bit less judgemental on a persons financial abilites eh?

You earned both barrels of that mate**, because you've been taking that free money you get for granted for many many years. Should have kept quiet.

** as in "give to him, both barrels" a euphamism for blowing someone away with a shotgun.

And yes I've been that poor, I've been homeless and slept rough until a kind person gave me a room for a few months - I've been so broke I was picking up pennies dropped on the street to buy a loaf of bread to eat "as is" - I'd recommend that experience to everyone - money looks VERY different after that.

*Shakes head* you really are so clueless, all of you, so clueless of just how priviledged you are.

I've decided to add you to my ignore list. I think it's best we don't interact ever again.

 

[Miko]

Given I enjoy the game and will buy any further expansions making content with players like me in mind would be a good move.

And what about players like me who has spent on Elite Dangerous three times, for PC, Xbox and PS4, two at launch prices and full price for Horizons and duplicated their cosmetics since they were non transferable? I've spent hundreds on cosmetics alone.

I've funded this game quite handsomely, but I dare not excuse FDev's behavior towards their update releases. Their attitude is poor and their consideration is low. They hype then shock horror release major updates with ridiculous glaring flaws, despite extensive Beta's where their passionate player base do loads of testing for them and spend hours here suggesting improvements and balancing that falls on deaf ears.

FDev are making a trend of this. Hence my complaint.

 

[CMDR Plexus Ironrot]

Lets keep the discussion on the topic. Lets not go over personal and interpersonal relationship issues okay? Thanks guys!

 

[Stigbob]

And what about players like me who has spent on Elite Dangerous three times, for PC, Xbox and PS4, two at launch prices and full price for Horizons and duplicated their cosmetics since they were non transferable? I've spent hundreds on cosmetics alone.

I've funded this game quite handsomely, but I dare not excuse FDev's behavior towards their update releases. Their attitude is poor and their consideration is low. They hype then shock horror release major updates with ridiculous glaring flaws, despite extensive Beta's where their passionate player base do loads of testing for them and spend hours here suggesting improvements and balancing that falls on deaf ears.

FDev are making a trend of this. Hence my complaint.

Think first spend later. Which could also be relevant to my difference of opinion on the costs of living to some people in the thread.

 

[Garbarrage]

Not even close to the same argument.

Actually, it is. Horizons is not necessary to play the game at all. You can kill all of the stated NPC examples with an unengineered ship, it just takes longer, is considerably riskier, and therefore limits the earning potential.

You can't compete in PvP, but for €5.99 (currently) you can.

You can talk about my privileged position all day long if you like, but if you can't afford €6, then you've probably also got more pressing issues that you should be attending to rather than wasting time on the Engineers grind, or computer games in general.

There's only one reason anyone would complain about not having access to Engineers while the Horizons expansion is so cheap... they're tight-arses.

Why would FDev be obliged to give away (although at the current price, they practically are) something that they've spent time and money developing just because someone can't be bothered to pay for it?