Mining - Am I alone feeling it's unbalanced/not quite working?

[MrFailfactory]

You must really like Vanilla ice cream, NeilF, because most of your posts and ideas seem to be trying to push this game in that direction.

Not that Vanilla is bad, but it's objectively more bland than other flavors.

I'm going to guess that you have not seen the multitude of threads of people saying that they can't find motherlodes, despite hours and hundreds of limpets in virgin star systems. Now, I'm pretty sure we both know that their failure is probably their own fault for not actually understanding how it works (a common problem and largely the core reason for the complaints on this forum), but I would also venture to say that if people are following the herd, so to speak, they might also have a tough time finding motherlodes even if they are doing it right simply because they've been farmed out by those that came before.

So, we have numerous complaints that motherlodes aren't frequent enough (which, in today's words, it means the activity is tedious), but I don't see how your suggestions address this. In my view, they make this *problem* worse. They are supposed to be rare (though I find them far more frequently than what I would consider rare to mean), which implies that they should have a heavier reward weighting when you do find one, and then successfully crack it open without destroying what's inside.

It sounds like you agree with that, but disagree with the current payout potential. Fair enough, but I would say that not enough time has passed before we start looking to make changes. The community has been asking for dynamic *gold rushes* for a long time, and this could very well be Frontier's first attempt at such a thing. It could also just be that they gave us a nice Holiday present, and will correct it when they return. It could be a BGS boo-boo, or just a simple error. We don't know yet, but this would be a very good place to make an attempt at the dynamic gold rush mechanic. These high payouts might be self-correcting, NeilF, we just need to wait and see.

Auto-turrets = no. Shoot them yourself, or better yet, get a gunner. Said gunner could do some drive-by sniping of mats for your dutiful limpets to collect while you are looking for the next motherlode, or could be doing the same while you are waiting for the rock to break apart far enough to move in.

I'm pretty sure legacy mining still pays as well as it ever did. Don't forget that that gameplay is supported by Missions, whereas I don't believe Core mining has Missions to support it, and I honestly don't think it ever should. Also, there is nothing stopping you from doing selective legacy mining while prospecting for Cores. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you are primarily a Miner, you should be doing this without question.

The sub-surface mining is the one piece that doesn't fit in the puzzle - I agree that something needs to be done here. I feel like the simplest solution would be changing the broken asteroid mechanic so that we would be using these after we have blown the rock apart, as opposed to before. Perhaps they will expand on this part in the future.

Riôt

 

[Pville_Piper]

You must really like Vanilla ice cream, NeilF, because most of your posts and ideas seem to be trying to push this game in that direction.

Not that Vanilla is bad, but it's objectively more bland than other flavors.

I'm going to guess that you have not seen the multitude of threads of people saying that they can't find motherlodes, despite hours and hundreds of limpets in virgin star systems. Now, I'm pretty sure we both know that their failure is probably their own fault for not actually understanding how it works (a common problem and largely the core reason for the complaints on this forum), but I would also venture to say that if people are following the herd, so to speak, they might also have a tough time finding motherlodes even if they are doing it right simply because they've been farmed out by those that came before.

So, we have numerous complaints that motherlodes aren't frequent enough (which, in today's words, it means the activity is tedious), but I don't see how your suggestions address this. In my view, they make this *problem* worse. They are supposed to be rare (though I find them far more frequently than what I would consider rare to mean), which implies that they should have a heavier reward weighting when you do find one, and then successfully crack it open without destroying what's inside.

It sounds like you agree with that, but disagree with the current payout potential. Fair enough, but I would say that not enough time has passed before we start looking to make changes. The community has been asking for dynamic *gold rushes* for a long time, and this could very well be Frontier's first attempt at such a thing. It could also just be that they gave us a nice Holiday present, and will correct it when they return. It could be a BGS boo-boo, or just a simple error. We don't know yet, but this would be a very good place to make an attempt at the dynamic gold rush mechanic. These high payouts might be self-correcting, NeilF, we just need to wait and see.

Auto-turrets = no. Shoot them yourself, or better yet, get a gunner. Said gunner could do some drive-by sniping of mats for your dutiful limpets to collect while you are looking for the next motherlode, or could be doing the same while you are waiting for the rock to break apart far enough to move in.

I'm pretty sure legacy mining still pays as well as it ever did. Don't forget that that gameplay is supported by Missions, whereas I don't believe Core mining has Missions to support it, and I honestly don't think it ever should. Also, there is nothing stopping you from doing selective legacy mining while prospecting for Cores. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you are primarily a Miner, you should be doing this without question.

The sub-surface mining is the one piece that doesn't fit in the puzzle - I agree that something needs to be done here. I feel like the simplest solution would be changing the broken asteroid mechanic so that we would be using these after we have blown the rock apart, as opposed to before. Perhaps they will expand on this part in the future.

Riôt

Well stated. I agree with this, we need to let the dust settle before we can really see what is going on. Looking at INARA, there is some crazy profits to made on a lot of stuff, I myself stumbled on to a $3700 profit on polymers just using the in game resources. Is it good or bad? I don't know. I've seen bromellite for $300,000... Crazy, crazy good. Right now I just want them to fix the bugs plaguing the game. The BGS will need time to be tweaked and once that is done, mining should be looked at.

 

[Pville_Piper]

On a somewhat related note, am I the only one who finds in his favorite LTD hotspot 90% all sorts of other high tier material like void Opals or Alexandrite (which all have hotspots in the same ring as well)? That's a relative new observation to me, wasn't so in the beginning. It could very well be that's something odd with this specific hotspot and I'll go and check out the other one's now...

Been seeing this all along, even in the Beta.

 

[NascentChemist]

I tried painite mining during the Beta, and was able to use every mechanic except non-core surface deposits.

Painite was present in sub-surface veins and in the asteroid itself. I could burn away with mining lasers while aiming the drill missiles. After stripping the outer layers, I could detonate the core for even more painite. Used the entire buffalo, so to speak.

Ice mining is awful. There are no non-core minerals worth grabbing. That's why ice core hunting seems so odd. Without the equivalent of the 3Ps, core hunting is the only lucrative option.

Metallic mining is still in a good place, if not currently balanced against void opals. I'll try it again tonight to see how painite mining compares to the metallic core minerals.

 

[lefty1117]

My guess is the intended gameplay approach is to use as many of the methods as are available on a single asteroid, to completely deplete it. so, blaster to grab the obvious surface stuff first, subsurface missiles to get the mid-crust stuff, and finally seismic charges to crack it open and get the remainder. I think what has happened is everyone is going straight to the seismic charges because of the payouts. However I do NOT think prices should be adjusted, but I think asteroid "integrity" should meet a minimum threshold of degradation before it can be cracked. Require players to go through the loop of surface, mid-crust and core in that order.

If this change were enforced then I could see it making sense for the pulse scanner to be a bit more descriptive about what the contents may hold - maybe expand the range of colors used to give players more of a clue. What we should be after is for a player wanting to spend time scraping every ounce of valuable stuff out of a given asteroid, not simply roaming looking for eggs to crack.

As far as legacy mining using the lasers, I'm ambivalent on whether it should remain in game or not. It seems redundant to both surface and subsurface blasting.

With all that said, if we had more of a prescriptive mining loop I'd argue that the exorbitant prices we are seeing for rare gems should stay in place (depending on supply & demand locally, which I understand from FD is being driving by BGS - a good thing!).

 

[Jorge Palu]

Given FD's track record on balancing I suspect we will see the nerf hammer swung on core mining payouts.

I have given the new mining a crack, and to be honest much prefer the old school way of mining. I quite like the new mining mechanics, but personally I find it much more relaxing poking around looking for the 3 P's and then just blasting away with the mining lasers while my limpet minions buzz around. When I get back into the game in a couple of weeks, I think I will set up my miner with at least a couple of the new mining tools, but am going to forego fitting the scanner. This way if I happen upon an asteroid with the new mechanics applied I can utilise the new tools. Otherwise, it will be back to the old school mining way for me.

 

[He$$eeTant]

It’s beautiful though. Very atmospheric, sitting in the half light with the mist of an asteroid belt below you, a previously blown ice haze off in the distance, the planet hanging in front of you and the count down timer 10.9.8... really nice

 

[Ozram]

Let's get this thread back on topic, people.

A Viper III should not make a better mining ship than a Type-7.

With 8 tonnes of cargo and 8 more in the bins, a Viper 3 could make over 26 million per load... yeah.

 

[Chorda]

Let's get this thread back on topic, people.

A Viper III should not make a better mining ship than a Type-7.

With 8 tonnes of cargo and 8 more in the bins, a Viper 3 could make over 26 million per load... yeah.

At least this gives the small ships a bit more viability though.

(trad.)

 

[Ozram]

At least this gives the small ships a bit more viability though.

(trad.)

It does, but I imagine a T7 with a pair of mining lasers and a big, cavernous hold should at least be able to match what a Viper can obtain in credits, no? Of course what isn’t mentioned is fuel and travel distance and other things making that viper mostly a “theorycraft”. It can be done though. Meanwhile the T7 is unlikely to match that even if it runs into Painite and platinum along its travels because the Viper just needs to find one rock.

 

[Ozram]

It’s beautiful though. Very atmospheric, sitting in the half light with the mist of an asteroid belt below you, a previously blown ice haze off in the distance, the planet hanging in front of you and the count down timer 10.9.8... really nice ��

Yeah I really enjoy hunting cores. I kept on long after I had more credits than I needed just because the task was enjoyable.

 

[mojonaut]

Didn't take long for the 'Fun Police' to arrive.

 

[Jukelo]

Didn't take long for the 'Fun Police' to arrive.

What I'm more surprised about is that it took 2 pages for somebody who didn't bother to read the OP to honor us with their uneducatated opinion.

 

[through the hole backwards]

Its always the same , some people don't like other people making money and feel they need to interfere. Almost makes you wish that there was a fourth mode , Open, Private Group, Solo, Sackcloth Ashes and Skint, then the pious and handwavium types would have somewhere to play where all the fun had already been removed and the rest of us could carry on playing as we see fit unhindered by people who would probably thoroughly approve if Fdev introduced personal taxation to Cmdrs accounts.

 

[smiths121]

Not sure it is mentioned on page 2-3, only read this page and 1st.

In the youtube video on mining, the FD crew mentioned the different mining had different payout due to risk. Core mining being the most risky.

I have had my shields knocked down to 1 ring, but I would not say it is dangerous as such. I have just equipped an Asp with all the mining gear, I am curious to see what I can do with it, and experience all the options. Thats a personal journey, rather than one I think everyone needs to do when equipping a ship.

Simon

 

[Stealthie]

Shame they couldn't have had a bit more "crossover" in the design of the FSS, DSS and wave-scanner (and, perhaps, got the SRV wave-scanner in on the act too).

The idea of carrying out some kind of "broad spectrum scan" and then twiddling something to "tune in" to specific things - as the FSS does - is good.
The idea of displaying hot-spots for various things in Analysis mode - as the DSS does - is also good.
The idea of "pinging" to find things - like the wave-scanner does - is also good.

So, why not put all that good stuff together and use ALL of it in all three modules?

You do some kind of broad-spectrum "honk" to scan a system, a planet surface and while mining too (as well as in the SRV).
That gives you a heap of signals, you tune to one and investigate it to establish what it is.
You then work your way through all the signals to identify them all.
You could then tune the wave-scanner (in your ship and SRV) to detect that specific thing.

Alternatively, how about having the various scanners operate on a "spectrum" from red to blue and then when you use the DSS and wave-scanners it displays ALL contacts in that spectrum of colours?

A bit of consistency in operation would be very nice.

 

[through the hole backwards]

What a depressive attitude. As if gaming is all about making money.

Oh the irony .

 

[Vandaahl]

What a depressive attitude. As if gaming is all about making money.

Thats the whole point he is trying to make...

I agree with Tthb, the whole balancing crepe is depressing. This game should be called ED : Communism. People will go nuts if pressing the fire button with a medium laser twice will give you slightly less income than pressing it thrice with a small laser.

This thread should not be about income, no one cares about income. You should need materials in order to do stuff. For shizzle A, you need stuffs B and in order to get them you need to core mine. For shizzle C you need stuffs D and stuffs D lives sub-surface. If you are not interested in shizzle A, you will prolly never core mine, is that a problem? If yes, want shizzle A.

Balance is bull poo, purpose should be important.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

Parts of mining are working well imho, as a whole though it is unbalanced and there are still issues with the wider integration of other gameplay elements.

atm there is no reason to not just go for deep core mining of LT Diamonds and Void Opals

what I would like to see is a reason to strip an asteroid from surface > sub surface > core and to mine/harvest lower value minerals faster and in greater quantities so its not a ball ache. I'd also like to see the rarer minerials like diamonds far more challenging to find requiring skill not luck or forum info but up the reward to compensate so it feels like hitting the jackpot.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I like the new stuff in mining.

i definitely think there is too much gear however - a programmable limpet controller would be a massive 1st step in the right direction for a start.

i totally agree that the pay is nuts for specific bits. i remember back to the promise made by David Braben that they would make sure that each feature would be well balanced to fit in with a sensible economy, and that their would be no 1 stand out feature which paid so much to make other careers pay seem pointless.

i want to get my mining boat out however am holding off now out of beta until it is (i hope) balanced better, otherwise i am going to end up a billionaire far too quickly. IF it isnt balanced then i suppose i will do it for fun and just give up on the economy and forget that part of the game..