Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[dm06]

-Several engineers are completely redundant for 95% of players but are stepping stones to the things 95% of players actually want (Marco Qwent must DIE!)

Well, actually I find useful having power plant's blueprint pinned from Hera Tani and experimental effect applied from Marco Qwent. (Hera Tani kind of far away most of the time)
I guess this part of the game is a sort of logistics, sometimes interesting to plan your route, required materials and finally modify the module. This way player will have a goal to exist in the void for up to several days.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Yes OP, and 97.2% of other commanders agree

Err you have that backwards if the read the posts - most DO NOT enjoy it.


tolerate =/= enjoy

Engineering in ED is like sorting your taxes - almost no-one likes it - but if you don't there are consequences.

 

[aRJay]

-Engineering is unnecessarily tedious for no logical reason other then to ensure it takes a lot of our time. (something something respect our players' time something something?)
-Pinning blueprints is ridiculously limiting AND we can't get experimentals without going to the engineer.
-The 6 to 1 ratio of material trading is excruciating. Draconian even. That's not a word I use that way very often.
-Several engineers are completely redundant for 95% of players but are stepping stones to the things 95% of players actually want (Marco Qwent must DIE!)
-Many of the engineers offer blueprints completely disconnected from the activities required to unlock them (looking at YOU, Selene!)
-Lots of the "higher tier" engineers actually offer LOWER grade blueprints than some of the initially unlocked ones (no point in going anywhere but Felicity for FSD's because many others don't have G5.)
-Experimental effects are universal among applicable engineers, yet the regular graded blueprints are limited by engineer.
-we can't buy or replicate experimentals and blueprints without engineer permissions, but stations sure can replace them when we blow them up!

The entire system reeks of a lack of human design sensibilities and internal consistency to me. It's really sad because the benefits offered are staggering. The first time your G5 dirty drag eagle travels almost 10km from a dead stop in one boost you'll have a hard time looking back, but dear GOD is it infuriating to get there--​and it doesn't need to be that way.

EDIT: and NO ONE has G4 thrusters. It's G3 or straight to G5 with Palin only. WHY.

Just because you don't have G4 Thrusters doesn't mean that nobody has them, as to why the prof because until Mel Brandon (sp?) opened his shop out in Colonia nobody else was doing that level.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

I'll admit I use Coriolis. That's about it. And I wish Frontier would take a more adversarial stance towards third party tools as they create more problems for the game than they solve.

Adversarial stance? Are you for real?

Without the third party tools ED would already be a dead game - can you honestly imagine trying to do any reasonable amount of engineering (of EITHER version) without them?

Deus above - you'd have the aggressive player factions like SDC just RULING open, because they would have eventally figured out the best upgrades and how to get them (just as they did), but then crucially NOT TELLING ANYONE ELSE.

Open would be even less of an option for casuals than it already was.

Add in NPC'S with the right engineering mods, because FDev would design them that way (because FDev did exactly that), instead of giving them randomly generated good AND bad ones, and solo and PG group play ALSO becomes a nightmare for the casuals when they meet a well engineered ship in their "random parts" engineered ship and get rebuy after rebuy.

As I said before FDev SHOULD BE PAYING THESE THIRD PARTY TOOL SUPPLIERS - for keeping their game remotely playable.

No-one and I mean NO-ONE can argue against that point and be honest with themselves or the players.

 

[Spacecat]

Not really. The chore of tracking down the mats to go through all 5 grades, each with totally different recipes, is a pain. The old system without the RNG would have been better, but they needed a reason for material traders to exist, I guess.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

It's a necessary evil, like taking a dump.

Talk to your doctor about your diet.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

This argument about not minmaxing to play ED coming from guys who made most of their creds ingame with EDDB on a second screen and couldnt find their A grade FSD without Inara is just in ridiculous.

Lol so much wisdom in your posts.

 

[bladerunner900]

No. I have better, more satisfying things to do, in other games. Each to one's own.

 

[Hacker#451563]

Engineering in ED is like going to the gym in RL.

Sometimes you find that a particular session was an enjoyable experience but normally you do it so nothing wobbles when you jump (into hyperspace).

 

[Rafe Zetter]

You really are something aren't you? You want to take it easy and slow and not care about getting things done efficiently? Fine dude, no problemo, to each their own. But can you please stop critizizing people who don't play your way? There is a problem with how the grind in this game is implemented. If you want to be efficient and again there are people that want to, then you'll have to do the usual go to location; get materials; re-log; rinse and repeat the last two steps. Just take off those blinders for a change and you'll suffer less from tunnel vision like you do right now. Just because you're avoiding the grind for the most part doesn't mean there isn't a problem with it. If the most efficient way of getting material x means having to re-log to respawn said material, then there's something wrong. There's a reason they wanted to eliminate mission board hopping. Because people who want missions done efficiently board hop. It's as simple as that. People who use their time in this game as efficient as possible and are complaining about the boring implementation of the grind are 100% correct.

You're asking stigbob to do something he's been doing since the alpha days, so don't hold your breath - almost all of his replies to most problems in the game are "this doesn't affect me or my play style" or his other favorite "you're doing it wrong".

just /ignore him - you'll find it easier.

His mindset seems to be the same as FDev's for how this kind of content is implemented "we didn't expect you to be efficient or want it naow - we thought you'd be like some lazy stoner drifter who will just do stuff now and again, rather than be singleminded in proceeding towards a specific goal in the shortest possible time - which will then reveal just how MASSIVE the timesink is we've built into the system to keep you playing".

Stigbob is the sort of player for whom ED was made - but FDev didn't understand he's in the minority, by 97.2%

I'm certain FDev assumed MOST players would take MONTHS to slowly upgrade thier modules as and when they found mats, while doing other stuff - instead it was and still is, quite the reverse.

The re-log / respawn solution isn't only in material gathering, until 3.3 it was in the mission boards too, hence board flipping - FDev's solution was to move the baords serverside, so you CANNOT flip it, thus maintaining thier preferred slow drudgery rather than FIXING the base reaon for flipping which was a faster / more diverse mission spawn system.

This mindset is systemic within FDev.

But don't forget "we value the players time" (tm).

enjoy!

 

[Rafe Zetter]

I don't exactly like it. But the materials for engineering give you a "why" for a lot of things and it has the effect of making you more invested in seeing and doing different things. Volcanic sites are more compelling because of the materials they give, various USSs can feel like a lucky opportunity when you see them, megaship interactions are motivated partially by materials/data you can steal, etc.

Id prefer a more developed crafting (and even construction) system where we the players can create things directly from the materials, but the materials themselves are a pretty key aspect of the motivation to do things in the game. I think eventually the Codex could also be more of a motivator/reward system if there were hundreds or even thousands of entries you could unlock by interacting with the game world.

There were other ideas given as to having a "why" for the engineering materials - or ANY materials being salvaged / mined, namely for reprocessing into something better for bigger profit that was not availabe any other way, and would have created both good trading and piracy opportunites for gameplay.

Yes, yes StuartGT, ok ok I get it, you're like a broken record - "you don't want ED to be like Eve Online". But you can mimic it, because Eve Online's crafting and manufactuing system is the best in any game ever made, many players do that and NOTHING else, NO pew pew of any kind, ever.

So instead the "crafting" that we were promised in ED is simply a "fetch me this so you can have a better weapon" - which is frankly so pathetically two dimensional and shows a lack of imagination that's borderline catatonic.

Even when we gave suggestions for a more involved "crafting" system, FDev did thier usual "la, la, la, la, la, we are not listening" - or a very good impersonation of it.

If you are going to have a "crafting system" at all - it has to be worth doing for it's own sake, rather than something that's done purely because "you have to or die", and once done - forgotten.

 

[IamMe]

No!

 

[Stigbob]

Just because I don't like how the grind is implemented means I'm not enjoying the game. Man o man, where do I begin... Just another 'Stigbobbies' world statement. Again showing how narrow minded your thought process is. Since re-logging is cheating in your book, and therefore you don't do it. Then why exactly are you playing a game developed by a company who, judging on what you've said about cheating, actually stimulates cheating by revolving part of the grind around it?

Why would I sulk at FDEV and refuse to play a game I like because other players choose to exploit by relogging ?. I'm not seeing any sort of logical chain of thought here.

 

[Stigbob]

You're asking stigbob to do something he's been doing since the alpha days, so don't hold your breath - almost all of his replies to most problems in the game are "this doesn't affect me or my play style" or his other favorite "you're doing it wrong".

just /ignore him - you'll find it easier.

His mindset seems to be the same as FDev's for how this kind of content is implemented "we didn't expect you to be efficient or want it naow - we thought you'd be like some lazy stoner drifter who will just do stuff now and again, rather than be singleminded in proceeding towards a specific goal in the shortest possible time - which will then reveal just how MASSIVE the timesink is we've built into the system to keep you playing".

Stigbob is the sort of player for whom ED was made - but FDev didn't understand he's in the minority, by 97.2%

I'm certain FDev assumed MOST players would take MONTHS to slowly upgrade thier modules as and when they found mats, while doing other stuff - instead it was and still is, quite the reverse.

The re-log / respawn solution isn't only in material gathering, until 3.3 it was in the mission boards too, hence board flipping - FDev's solution was to move the baords serverside, so you CANNOT flip it, thus maintaining thier preferred slow drudgery rather than FIXING the base reaon for flipping which was a faster / more diverse mission spawn system.

This mindset is systemic within FDev.

But don't forget "we value the players time" (tm).

enjoy!

Rafe according to your own posts you ragequit ED in early 2014 and havent played it since, yet here you still are posting resentfully about the people who like it four years later. You don't have any personal knowledge of any of the things being discussed and as such have nothing useful to contribute beyond being funny in a sad way.

Get yourself a better hobby.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I started playing when engineers still had the slot machine mechanic, which I hated (hey kids-want to learn how gambling machines work?), so I didn't really bother until the update. I'd say the current system is ok. It's something to do and gives you a better ship, but I don't kill myself maxing out every ship. Hunting for materials is something I do when I'm in the mood and I stop when I'm bored of it and never with a wake scanner.

I do think being able to modify you ship to suit your play style is important, but I definitely agree with those who say the results are OP. At this point I could probably let my 2 year old pilot my Cutter in a Haz Res for 5 minutes with cargo without too much fear of losing it.

 

[avow555]

Why would I sulk at FDEV and refuse to play a game I like because other players choose to exploit by relogging ?. I'm not seeing any sort of logical chain of thought here.

Didn't hear of anyone getting banned for this exploit you talk about.
Seems a bit odd that fdev left that in game for such a long long time!
Can you explain that?

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

This is pretty much what I hear from all the newcommers I have brought into the game. Think it's mainly the old grumpy ones that complain

I simply don't believe it!

 

[Stigbob]

Didn't hear of anyone getting banned for this exploit you talk about.
Seems a bit odd that fdev left that in game for such a long long time!
Can you explain that?

FDEV don't ban cheats (5-1 engineering/cloggers/take your pick), they never have. Why would you expect them to ban people for a fairly minor exploit in a game thats always had exploits ?.

I just opt out of doing it myself and don't worry about it.

 

[Notwyn]

I don't mind Engineering at all. I'm a collector type so hunting up mats etc is enjoyable. It was a bit of a focused effort to start but as my hoard increased it became pretty routine.
Every time a new ship comes out I'll fully Engineer it and try it out. If it's meh I'll save the mods and flog the ship. Most of the time I already have ready made modules.

 

[D3rv1sh]

Why would I sulk at FDEV and refuse to play a game I like because other players choose to exploit by relogging ?. I'm not seeing any sort of logical chain of thought here.

That's okay Bob. I won't expect of you to face the reality that Frontier doesn't consider this exploiting/cheating. That they themselves facilitated this for players. I can trust you're not using EDDB/Inara/Coriolis/Shipyard or any other third party tool as well? Since that would be cheating in your book. As in gaining an unfair advantage. You do realize that just by playing the game this whole time you could have taken advantage of changes triggered in the BGS by whom you call cheaters? So how is that explained in Bob's bible? And how are you making sure this won't happen? How do you fully isolate yourself of us cheaters? Do you have your own private galaxy in the game? Or is this that falls under the section that says "ignorance is bliss" in your bible?