Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

Yea, they should also probably start applying statistical analysis to see how their players actually interact with the systems they build under "Real conditions".

See, this is something that you'd think every game dev' does (if possible) by default but some of FDev's design decisions make you wonder.

Maybe they could randomly "tag" newly-purchased player ships and then follow them through the engineering process?
My bet would be that the results would show that the majority of newly purchased ships immediately get a bunch of mod's applied, get parked-up and then suddenly, a couple of weeks later, get a bunch more mod's added to them (after the player has used a different ship to collect mod's and transport modules around the engineers) or they just get flown around while being modded over a short period of time.
I bet the number of ships that receive sporadic mod's over a long period of time would be miniscule (and probably owned by Stigbob).

Said it before but human-nature is to problem-solve by identifying the problems, looking at what resources are available to us and then making use of those resources to solve the problems.
I doubt that the Egyptians decided to build the pyramids and then just carried on picking dates and riding camels until they stumbled across anything that looked like it might come in handy for building a Pyramid.
 
You frown upon anyone who's not satisfied with this aspect of the game if they don't play the way you do. Everyone who complains shouldn't be complaining and should be altering their play style.

Seriously, you need to slow down and read posts without any a priori bias against specific posters. Sure, Bob loves ED, rarely complains about it, and often shares that he does enjoy what others may complain about. But even when the tone of his posts seem a bit abrupt, you've got to do a fair bit of the interpretive literature dance to reach the conclusion that he (not meaning to speak for Bob, but as you've lumped me in with him...) are frowning upon people, saying you shouldn't be complaining, or need to alter your playstyle. Go back and read my posts in this thread, slowly.

I agreed that Bob's approach to ED engineering was better than yours, because his approach allows him to have fun, whereas yours doesn't allow you to have fun. That's a pretty simple metric. I apply that to all aspects of ED. Your approach to combat, trade, mining, exploration, BGS, PP, whatever may be better than mine, or someone else's, if it is more fun for you than my approach is for me.

PVP combat is a decent example, and there's loads of complaining about that too. Some love it, some hate it. Some approach it from an engineering min/max direction, some approach it from the menu mode option, each to their own. I play in Open (and part of me wishes everyone did) and the state of PvP pretty much forced me to seriously alter aspects of my playstyle - because I wasn't willing to compromise playing in Open. So I learned more about the game, combat, escape, engineering, and adapted to the game environment.

PP is a good example too (and brought up in this thread). My approach to PP for over a year was flawed, I wasn't really enjoying it, didn’t like the timed merit hauling system one bit - but I did it, just to serve a specific end - Prismatics. Then I had to do it over multiple times when I kept forgetting to buy & store enough for future ship purchases. Eventually, I changed my approach to PP and am enjoying it far more, probably not as much as some others, but the way they are playing really doesn't suit me or what I want to spend my time doing. So ya, again, I did change how I approach that aspect of ED, in order to try and increase my fun at the expense of taking a quicker easier route. And I did that after reading a post by some god awful forum rat who wrote a positive post in a thread complaining about PP.

But hey ho, rant, rage, and complain all you want, but be wary... other people may enjoy something you don't, they may approach it differently (to ensure they enjoy it), and in a thread specifically asking if anyone enjoys it, they may well share their enjoyment and how/why they enjoy it. As much as that may wind you up, your complaint is no more relevant or valid than their enjoyment, and who knows, maybe someone (not you) might read through and think, ya, maybe that's not a bad way to approach this.
 
FDEV just fixed the mission relog exploit after 4 years.

That's an exploit I never really understood. I thinking logging out and back in (over and over) just to get extra missions is more of a grind than actually flying a few extra "laps" for the same number of missions. Never used that exploit myself - ironically it's often more fun to play the game to get the rewards. Well, at least for me.

Now finding two systems that hand out rank missions like candy (for the terrible grind required to unlock certain ships and planets), there's a exploit game mechanic that I proudly take advantage of :D
 
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That's an exploit I never really understood. I thinking logging in and back out just to get more missions is more of a grind than actually flying a few extra "laps" for the same number of missions. Never used that exploit myself - ironically it's often more fun to play the game to get the rewards. Well, at least for me.

Same here.

It used to take ages for the game to load, for me, so the thought of logging out and then logging back in again never appealed.

I completed the Imperial naval rank-grind in 3 days, from start to finish, and I wondered whether that makes me hypocritical for being critical of re-logging but then I remembered that even when I was doing the Imp' grind I was doing it in Fehu and zipping back and forth between the 2 stations in Fehu to stack 20 surface-scan missions at a time.

I guess I could be accused of using an exploit by stacking surface-scan missions but, in my head, if 20 different factions want to pay me for scanning the same outpost, that's just me taking advantage of market-forces. :p
 
That's an exploit I never really understood. I thinking logging out and back in (over and over) just to get extra missions is more of a grind than actually flying a few extra "laps" for the same number of missions. Never used that exploit myself - ironically it's often more fun to play the game to get the rewards. Well, at least for me.

Now finding two systems that hand out rank missions like candy (for the terrible grind required to unlock certain ships and planets), there's a exploit game mechanic that I proudly take advantage of :D

Absolutely agree. I can't bring myself to relog on other occasions either. Gathering mats at Davs Hope by relogging for hours for example isn't playing the game. It's actually not playing the game. Now I can understand why people do it, and I see the point when people say that gathering certain materials is boring or forces them into doing stuff they don't enjoy. But I can't imagine that they enjoy relogging for hours either. Maybe certain aspects of material gathering need to be streamlined. On the other hand, I found most of the materials needed for my Krait simply by playing the game.
 
That's an exploit I never really understood. I thinking logging out and back in (over and over) just to get extra missions is more of a grind than actually flying a few extra "laps" for the same number of missions. Never used that exploit myself - ironically it's often more fun to play the game to get the rewards. Well, at least for me.

Now finding two systems that hand out rank missions like candy (for the terrible grind required to unlock certain ships and planets), there's a exploit game mechanic that I proudly take advantage of :D

Same here, not needed either ever since we've been able to pick our own reward I got imperial rank for the cutter via random mission running for my PMF. Everyones a winner.
 
Lol, look at you guys arguing about cheating.

The power level of the engineers is cheating. It totally whacked the game out of its original framework. This isn't Elite anymore, it's Meta Grind Solid, nothing else.

Luckily its optional so you don't need to do engineering at all never mind the meta grind.
 
I just gather materials along the way to doing other things, have wake scanners on a couple of my frequently used ships and visit USS's when I feel like it. So I engineer the things I want, will never unlock a few engineers as their unlock requirements would have me do things that would be utterly boring (think Dangerous to start!) so I'm not going to miss them.

No grind for anything, I just go on my way doing what I want to do, I've not done bad so far and will continue having fun :)

I do see the 'need' for some to have the 'best' engineering soonest, so for those it likely would be 'grind' today for goodies, nothing wrong with that either.
 
Seriously, you need to slow down and read posts without any a priori bias against specific posters. Sure, Bob loves ED, rarely complains about it, and often shares that he does enjoy what others may complain about. But even when the tone of his posts seem a bit abrupt, you've got to do a fair bit of the interpretive literature dance to reach the conclusion that he (not meaning to speak for Bob, but as you've lumped me in with him...) are frowning upon people, saying you shouldn't be complaining, or need to alter your playstyle. Go back and read my posts in this thread, slowly.

I agreed that Bob's approach to ED engineering was better than yours, because his approach allows him to have fun, whereas yours doesn't allow you to have fun. That's a pretty simple metric. I apply that to all aspects of ED. Your approach to combat, trade, mining, exploration, BGS, PP, whatever may be better than mine, or someone else's, if it is more fun for you than my approach is for me.

PVP combat is a decent example, and there's loads of complaining about that too. Some love it, some hate it. Some approach it from an engineering min/max direction, some approach it from the menu mode option, each to their own. I play in Open (and part of me wishes everyone did) and the state of PvP pretty much forced me to seriously alter aspects of my playstyle - because I wasn't willing to compromise playing in Open. So I learned more about the game, combat, escape, engineering, and adapted to the game environment.

PP is a good example too (and brought up in this thread). My approach to PP for over a year was flawed, I wasn't really enjoying it, didn’t like the timed merit hauling system one bit - but I did it, just to serve a specific end - Prismatics. Then I had to do it over multiple times when I kept forgetting to buy & store enough for future ship purchases. Eventually, I changed my approach to PP and am enjoying it far more, probably not as much as some others, but the way they are playing really doesn't suit me or what I want to spend my time doing. So ya, again, I did change how I approach that aspect of ED, in order to try and increase my fun at the expense of taking a quicker easier route. And I did that after reading a post by some god awful forum rat who wrote a positive post in a thread complaining about PP.

But hey ho, rant, rage, and complain all you want, but be wary... other people may enjoy something you don't, they may approach it differently (to ensure they enjoy it), and in a thread specifically asking if anyone enjoys it, they may well share their enjoyment and how/why they enjoy it. As much as that may wind you up, your complaint is no more relevant or valid than their enjoyment, and who knows, maybe someone (not you) might read through and think, ya, maybe that's not a bad way to approach this.

I don't know where you're getting from that I can't stand seeing other people having fun using their own play style. That's simply wrong not to mention absurd. I'm not out looking for a fight. The reason for my reaction is really simple and explained by me many times. If you don't have first hand experience with a certain play style then you don't have experience with the game play that accompanies it. Having fun using your own style? Cool man. Without experiencing other game play styles yourself but telling others to not play that way, since you don't have that problem, is downright stupid.

Am I stupid for being so zealous and wasting my time. Yes I am. But looking backwards I'd rather be that idiot then tagging something as an exploit/cheat, that it's unintended and that you shouldn't be using it. Especially considering it was Frontier themselves that deliberately made this happen the way it is to facilitate the grind for mats.
 
I don't know where you're getting from that I can't stand seeing other people having fun using their own play style. That's simply wrong not to mention absurd. I'm not out looking for a fight. The reason for my reaction is really simple and explained by me many times. If you don't have first hand experience with a certain play style then you don't have experience with the game play that accompanies it. Having fun using your own style? Cool man. Without experiencing other game play styles yourself but telling others to not play that way, since you don't have that problem, is downright stupid.

Wrong again, I've tried the grind in fact I've ground for science then posted the results. I found it to be no fun less efficient and very very boring.

Am I stupid for being so zealous and wasting my time. Yes I am. But looking backwards I'd rather be that idiot then tagging something as an exploit/cheat, that it's unintended and that you shouldn't be using it. Especially considering it was Frontier themselves that deliberately made this happen the way it is to facilitate the grind for mats.

Relogging is an exploit. Use it if you want, personally I choose not to. There's no point getting upset about other peoples choices about that or anything else it is after all just a video game. Fun wins everytime, which is the thing you seem to be missing out on.
 
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I don't know where you're getting from that I can't stand seeing other people having fun using their own play style. That's simply wrong not to mention absurd. I'm not out looking for a fight. The reason for my reaction is really simple and explained by me many times. If you don't have first hand experience with a certain play style then you don't have experience with the game play that accompanies it. Having fun using your own style? Cool man. Without experiencing other game play styles yourself but telling others to not play that way, since you don't have that problem, is downright stupid.

Am I stupid for being so zealous and wasting my time. Yes I am. But looking backwards I'd rather be that idiot then tagging something as an exploit/cheat, that it's unintended and that you shouldn't be using it. Especially considering it was Frontier themselves that deliberately made this happen the way it is to facilitate the grind for mats.

Bob is oblivious to your woes. Use block feature, it works really well. You'll be like zen master to Bob answers.
 
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