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Have they?
I don't recall anyone saying that, but if they did, then they're idiots.
Of COURSE I'm a real space explorer!
If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.
- Thread starter Spline
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Have they?
I don't recall anyone saying that, but if they did, then they're idiots.
Of COURSE I'm a real space explorer!
Hm, I dont' get two points of the whole discussion:
1. Why is it so important whether it's the ADS or the FSS to have several 50+ page discussions about it? It's a new game mechanic which is different than before?
2. I do like the new FSS in most aspects and while I respect all peoples different opinion about it, I don't really understand what's so annoyingly bad about it. Honestly.
In my opinion the ADS mechanic was fine too but it's an old mechanic which was implemented in a very functional way. The FSS adds more elements to it, giving the System discovery more Detail. It is thereby changing of Course how it works (and no, it is not the same as before - Maybe similar in some ways but still different). It's a part of the game which has been enhanced - similar to the original Elite not featuring flying inside stations. Some ideas were developed and they were implemented.
So what's worse than with the ADS? Maybe I'll try to find some positions for that:
Diff Fact: If a System was not discovered before, the honk will not display the bodies anymore and populating the full map takes longer now and in the Progress you have to use the FSS - but why would you do it anyway?:
1: Is it about the Money for the "honk and go"? FD stated that the honk still gets you the same amount of Money as before - you just don't see the bodies - but why would somebody care if not intending to fly there? So if not interested in the bodies there is no Need to use the FSS at all.
2: Is it about deciding whether to fly to a planet or not? You still can do that by just Looking at the frequency bar what's there. I mean - with the ADS I basically did the same, I opened the System map, looked for Audio hints of the planet's type and also looked at the holograms to find something about the planet. The FSS is the combined tool for that Kind of Exploration. You can look at the "Audio" frequencies to find the planet type, you can find about the Looks and other Details by finding it and pointing to it.
3: Is there too much Information revealed with the FSS which was previously only available when flying to it? Yes you get Money and Information of bodies previously only granted when Detail scanning that Body by flying there. But for just getting that info it was sufficient to just fly in a planets reach - depending on size - between 100 and 30 LS I guess in average - where it is still a tiny Point so you cannot make out any Features of the planet. Nobody can convince me personally that just flying for getting Information (not the sight of a beoutiful planet - that's a different story) is fun. I never really enjoyed flying minutes to every single Body in a System and then additionally wait for the DSS to finish. Installing Windows is more engaging than that honesly. So personally I think giving some additional Details by focussing on a signal is fine as well - supposed a planet is interesting enough to Focus on it - which you don't have to.
4. Is it about the fun needing to fly and see a beutiful planetary body and be rawarded by doing so? There is still the DSS and it fills the role in some kind which the old detail scanner had. Difference is, that it takes longer since you have to be closer to the planet and you have to fire some probes. Not really as skill based as introduced but still better than having to just wait and looking to a progress circle thing. You are still rewarded for the action with money and now you have be so close to the planet you get a real sight on it - plus the annoying gravity well which makes the reward really earned.
5. Is it about the time required to spend "scanning a System"? It depends what "scanning a System" means. As mentioned initially I don't think just having the System map populated ever made any sense without the intention to work with it:
- Discovering (Level 3) all planets means using the FSS vs previously flying the System up and down. Whether the FSS dial and point action suits you better or is more "skillful" than pointing the nose of a starship towards an orange circle and wait is up to you, but now it's quicker many times.
- Discovering only Planets of interest means also using the FSS now instead of previously Hunting for hints in the System map and holo-representations. It's now the tool intended for that task. Which one is quicker I cannot tell. In both cases after identifying interesting Targets they are on the System map and you can decide to fly there if you want as previously and now it is rewarding to do so.
- Fully scan/map a System will now take considerably more time as for one the initial System map popuplation will take more time than the ADS and Surface mapping every celestial body takes more time too. But there is also more reward in doing so and I doubt that if you previously mapped entire Systems completely, time is the issue here.
So I'm the opinion that from game mechanic / balance stuff there are no real disadvantages or bad things - provided you didn't just honk to have the System map populated for ... just having it populated.
So concluding this, the only thing left something People might not like is how the mechanic of the FSS works (the tune and zoom / click to fire probe thing). If so, I personally am not that opinion, but I could understand that. FD has evolved the machanic from Nothing (besides pressing a button) to something. A new interaction in the game. In my opinion it's not difficult and it fits the Purpose. Let aside the tune and click mechanic I find a possibility to use a telescope Thing really engaging to look what's outside the space ship compared to looking at a rather schematic System map. FD made it that way because it's supposed to make fun - and for me it works.
So, this was my opinion and some thoughts about it why I cannot imagine what's objective so bad about the FSS that it's removal/bypass is requested. I'd like to know and understand and encourage you to work in a constructive way:
- What are your goals you want to achieve or did previously achive and you think the FSS is not suitable for you or interferes with the way you are were doing things?
- Which part does spoil the fun which you previously had with the ADS?
- How would you improve the FSS/DSS mechanic to make it better usable for you (please try to find a different solution than to revert the change or try to introduce some parallel ADS mechanic)
1. Why is it so important whether it's the ADS or the FSS to have several 50+ page discussions about it? It's a new game mechanic which is different than before?
2. I do like the new FSS in most aspects and while I respect all peoples different opinion about it, I don't really understand what's so annoyingly bad about it. Honestly.
In my opinion the ADS mechanic was fine too but it's an old mechanic which was implemented in a very functional way. The FSS adds more elements to it, giving the System discovery more Detail. It is thereby changing of Course how it works (and no, it is not the same as before - Maybe similar in some ways but still different). It's a part of the game which has been enhanced - similar to the original Elite not featuring flying inside stations. Some ideas were developed and they were implemented.
So what's worse than with the ADS? Maybe I'll try to find some positions for that:
Diff Fact: If a System was not discovered before, the honk will not display the bodies anymore and populating the full map takes longer now and in the Progress you have to use the FSS - but why would you do it anyway?:
1: Is it about the Money for the "honk and go"? FD stated that the honk still gets you the same amount of Money as before - you just don't see the bodies - but why would somebody care if not intending to fly there? So if not interested in the bodies there is no Need to use the FSS at all.
2: Is it about deciding whether to fly to a planet or not? You still can do that by just Looking at the frequency bar what's there. I mean - with the ADS I basically did the same, I opened the System map, looked for Audio hints of the planet's type and also looked at the holograms to find something about the planet. The FSS is the combined tool for that Kind of Exploration. You can look at the "Audio" frequencies to find the planet type, you can find about the Looks and other Details by finding it and pointing to it.
3: Is there too much Information revealed with the FSS which was previously only available when flying to it? Yes you get Money and Information of bodies previously only granted when Detail scanning that Body by flying there. But for just getting that info it was sufficient to just fly in a planets reach - depending on size - between 100 and 30 LS I guess in average - where it is still a tiny Point so you cannot make out any Features of the planet. Nobody can convince me personally that just flying for getting Information (not the sight of a beoutiful planet - that's a different story) is fun. I never really enjoyed flying minutes to every single Body in a System and then additionally wait for the DSS to finish. Installing Windows is more engaging than that honesly. So personally I think giving some additional Details by focussing on a signal is fine as well - supposed a planet is interesting enough to Focus on it - which you don't have to.
4. Is it about the fun needing to fly and see a beutiful planetary body and be rawarded by doing so? There is still the DSS and it fills the role in some kind which the old detail scanner had. Difference is, that it takes longer since you have to be closer to the planet and you have to fire some probes. Not really as skill based as introduced but still better than having to just wait and looking to a progress circle thing. You are still rewarded for the action with money and now you have be so close to the planet you get a real sight on it - plus the annoying gravity well which makes the reward really earned.
5. Is it about the time required to spend "scanning a System"? It depends what "scanning a System" means. As mentioned initially I don't think just having the System map populated ever made any sense without the intention to work with it:
- Discovering (Level 3) all planets means using the FSS vs previously flying the System up and down. Whether the FSS dial and point action suits you better or is more "skillful" than pointing the nose of a starship towards an orange circle and wait is up to you, but now it's quicker many times.
- Discovering only Planets of interest means also using the FSS now instead of previously Hunting for hints in the System map and holo-representations. It's now the tool intended for that task. Which one is quicker I cannot tell. In both cases after identifying interesting Targets they are on the System map and you can decide to fly there if you want as previously and now it is rewarding to do so.
- Fully scan/map a System will now take considerably more time as for one the initial System map popuplation will take more time than the ADS and Surface mapping every celestial body takes more time too. But there is also more reward in doing so and I doubt that if you previously mapped entire Systems completely, time is the issue here.
So I'm the opinion that from game mechanic / balance stuff there are no real disadvantages or bad things - provided you didn't just honk to have the System map populated for ... just having it populated.
So concluding this, the only thing left something People might not like is how the mechanic of the FSS works (the tune and zoom / click to fire probe thing). If so, I personally am not that opinion, but I could understand that. FD has evolved the machanic from Nothing (besides pressing a button) to something. A new interaction in the game. In my opinion it's not difficult and it fits the Purpose. Let aside the tune and click mechanic I find a possibility to use a telescope Thing really engaging to look what's outside the space ship compared to looking at a rather schematic System map. FD made it that way because it's supposed to make fun - and for me it works.
So, this was my opinion and some thoughts about it why I cannot imagine what's objective so bad about the FSS that it's removal/bypass is requested. I'd like to know and understand and encourage you to work in a constructive way:
- What are your goals you want to achieve or did previously achive and you think the FSS is not suitable for you or interferes with the way you are were doing things?
- Which part does spoil the fun which you previously had with the ADS?
- How would you improve the FSS/DSS mechanic to make it better usable for you (please try to find a different solution than to revert the change or try to introduce some parallel ADS mechanic)
Because that is piece-by-piece sign, and it is something you want to avoid when your entire process is based around a long iterative process. They worked for a year on it, with the idea this will support what they are going to do next. They need a LOT of reason to backpeddle. And apart from, what, ten dudes complaining a lot, the rest of social media around ED is busy hyping DW2 etc. Now, if that flops and noone participates, THAT will be an obvious sign to FD. But if DW2 is a great success, player counts are high, positive news everywhere except in one or two topics here: they wont change.
Oh yeah. People who like the FSS arent real explorers but bubble dwellers who only care for credits etc etc. The whole 'no real explorer' is funny because it is as close to a literal textbook example of a fallacy as you can get, so I always assume it is used in jest. After all, none of us are space explorers, we're all grown dudes fiddling with our stick in the dark preferring silly version A or B of 'space exploration' while we make spaceship noises. Maybe it helps I am 'combat explorer', so I've had the same 'no real combat pilot' discussion before.
Now, being a person who prefers fixed weapons and the FSS, obviously I am the real combat pilot and space explorer, so there.
Why?
The parallel ADS mechanic solution works perfectly well and the vast majority of both FSS and ADS proponents are perfectly happy with it.
I know I would be fine with bringing back "the old way" with an ADS module, as an option for those that want it. As long as they leave the new FSS/DSS Probing for those of us that like it, I have no issue with them re-introducing the "old way" for those that liked it.
However, if it comes down to FSS vs. old ADS, I'm firmly in the FSS camp.
If certain players can't adjust to the highly improved exploration mechanics, offer them the option to buy, and install an ADS that would cancel the effects of the FSS, and revert the DSS to it's original function. Let them give up credits a module slot for the privilege.
But, let's not be in a hurry. There are a bunch of issues that need attention more than this.
But, let's not be in a hurry. There are a bunch of issues that need attention more than this.
Jacques d'Orleans
Banned
Is that because of the changes to the game or is it that the player count went up because the shoved it out at STEAM during the december x-mas sale for 5,99 Euros?
The idea behind my request is to encourage crativity to evolve the FSS idea and not to have a "backwards compatibility mode". Let's Maybe rephrase: What would you change to the FSS so you would not require the ADS?
Well re-enabling the ADS shouldn't take too much effort, but the lock-up issue should definitely be a priority.
If FDev were to say "You'll get something in February" this thread would quietly die. (Until Feb 1st when impatient people will start asking where it is.)
Pretty sure that is due to 2 things (none of it being the FSS):
1 - Patch month numbers bump. Same happened with every single major patch, before going back to normal. Player number is barely higher than the numbers from 3.0.
2 - The game was on sale for the price of a Big Mac for several weeks in December, which makes it even less impressive compared to the numbers from 3.0.
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Targetable bodies in the System Map and Nav Panel.
However, that would be unacceptable to a whole bunch of other people, so is a non-starter.
The optional ADS module is the only thing that's met with wide acceptance - and we've been discussing this since the original announcement in November (or whenever it was).
They worked for a few years on Engineers, then back peddled and rewrote it. They worked on C&P for a few years and back peddled and rewrote it. They worked on mining for a few years and then back peddled and rewrote it. They worked for years on RES sites and then back peddled and make them defunct. They rewrote KWS and then turned it back to the way it was. Shall I continue? FDev basically write whatever looks great right now and then tweak it later and iron out the bugs.
That being said; DW2 is no way a vindication now indicator of the FSS usage. Most peeps will be trying to get to the next meet up point and are not going to be stopping at every jump to play whack-the-mole. Does that mean we should remove the FSS? No way. Some player like it, leave it be. Some players don't like and are asking for their old module. Neither of those in any way affect the continuing delivery of what's to come. And if it does, sure they can rewrite it
. I think you're making the whole DW2 thing up to be honest. I cannot see how that is a reflection of anything. How many peeps went on DW1? They didn't have FSS, so are we to assume it was a big flop?As for the 'real explorer' bit, lets examine that; What I have seen mentioned and I agree with is; Previously you had to fly to and discover each body to get paid; Now you don't; The only reason to fly to a body now is to locate POIs. Any part of that wrong?
And really I couldn't care less about what people think is or is not a real explorer. The Rank of Explorer 'Elite' was ruined by FDev who allowed Pax Missions to gain that rank which meant, peeps who spent days/weeks/months gaining their ranks were suddenly up against peeps who could gain explorer rank in a weekend of pax missions. Likewise Trade Elite ruined by data deliver missions. Again done over a weekend.
If that's FDev's idea of forward thinking then ye know what we're royally probed.
I don;t exactly know what you mean about the 'lock-up issue'. If you mean the way the game can stall now, yeah, that would rank well above this FSS issue. There are plenty of issues that are more important than the FSS, making February way too soon to consider it, with the list that exists already. Catering to a small minority doesn't exactly shift my priorities I'm afraid.
P.S. The payouts should also revert to the previous scales when the FSS is blocked by an ADS. The whole mechanism should revert to pre-Ch 4 status.
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We all have our own preferences for what FDev work on next. They'll do what makes sense to them. All it really needs is a 'yeah, we'll work on it'.
People who want the ADS back tend to be people who did a lot of exploration prior to 3.3 - which is not surprising. Those people have generally long since stopped caring about credits.
Mohrgan, the objections you raise have been discussed before, I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to find a rebuttal and refute that.
As an alternative if you could justify your position on varying payouts it would be helpful. None of my posts have been about the money, nor have they been about this taking priority over any other problem. I do consider it to be both important and urgent though.
Ah!
that sounds like me [yesnod]
I have been known to insult Unwashed parking space hogging peasant Sunday drivers too
So what you're saying here is that the new payouts are better than the old system? Like, not having to travel to each body and scan it and just by playing whack-a-mole, you get better pay?
Now if it was me, I'd be thinking that maybe the new system pays you more for doing less, in which case, you're adding weight to the whole 'exploration' has been cheapened argument.
But switching back to reality; No-one actually cares about the payment, that seems to have passed you buy. A one jump delivery pays 10m for 5 minutes game time. So do you really think that players are going to use whack-a-mole as a way to make massive credits and buy their next Cutter?
It's not a matter of adjusting. I find the "gameplay" of the FSS to be appallingly bad. I'd rather supercruise to a distant planet to scan it, especially since you still need to do this to map it anyway.
While I hate the FSS, I rather like the probes for mapping. Unlike the FSS, the probes don't feel like needless "makework",
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