Bots in LYR

I'm an idiot. Was coming back to make an edit.

But how would a bot align with target after the station spits them out at some unknown angle? If they built a model that accounts for the station's
rotation, orbit, etc, maybe we should let them have their fun.

You have reached an area of which I have no kenning. I like to fly my space ships.
 

sollisb

Banned
This is a little off topic, but how in the world could you program a bot to account for the rotation of a station?

Every time you try to dock, the Coriolis type station will be at a different relative angle to your ship. The bot would receive a different landing pad. Upon leaving, the destination star will be at a different angle.

Are there really APIs that deliver enough raw data to overcome these problems?

Edit: Really wanted to delete my shame, but already got quoted...

I assume you mean existing the station. Its easy. First of all to get the height is a matter of trial and error, once you get the proper height, it'll be the same height no matter which pad you take off from. Next is the grill alignment. That's easy too. But I'm not going to say how. Suffice is to say this, all the info you need is on the screen and writing code to read portions of the screen and react to it is relatively easy. The next parts is jump orientation. Again, all the info you need is on screen. And if you wait until you pass 7k, it is again easy. Orientation on jump into system is again easy. Even Voice Assist can do it.
 
I'm an idiot. Was coming back to make an edit.

But how would a bot align with target after the station spits them out at some unknown angle? If they built a model that accounts for the station's
rotation, orbit, etc, maybe we should let them have their fun.

Are these bots not fully automated?

I think a bot could forgo the whole ordeal of navigating to the station exit by simply Launch -> Exit to Menu -> Reconnect.. as far as pointing the right direction, I dunno. Maybe some OCR software to look at the compass and determine which inputs to give the ship to make the solid white dot hit the center?
 
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Rubber, after the initial discovery of bots in Open by AOS and the bans that followed, the bots are no longer in Open, and when they are, they have ports blocked so that they are in Open but cannot be connected to. All the botting evidence of the last 6 months or so is based around traffic reports and other indirect measurements. When they accidentally log to Open, they don't accept messages, nor can they be seen by human CMDRs. And even when they were still visible in Open, they would insta-log on any kind of damage taken.

There are all kinds of reasons why OOPP might be a good thing. But as anti-botting measure it won't be very effective.

True, I was more inclined to think Open PP would deter or make AFK combat expansions much more difficult. FD could use the new CZ mechanics as well, and have a double hit. Since AFK combat merits can go into the tens of thousands, the loss of one AFK client can be a critical loss.
 

sollisb

Banned
True, I was more inclined to think Open PP would deter or make AFK combat expansions much more difficult. FD could use the new CZ mechanics as well, and have a double hit. Since AFK combat merits can go into the tens of thousands, the loss of one AFK client can be a critical loss.

You need to think like the botters....

If losing one ship is critical, just add 4 more for redundancy. Seriously, I've been down this road before, with a different game as the main lib coder trying to overcome bots. You have to think like them and think, how would I do X, how would I do Y. What happens if he does this or he does that. As the defender, you have to base everything on... The botter always wins. He has more time to think and create ways than you have to combat. So, you think like them as above and install gates. Ok, so the botter can use the green and red light. Make the red light green. Make the red light blink. remove the red light. One light in 3D space means nothing. You keep adding gates and adding more gates. Eventually you end up in a situation where the botter gives up, or, you've made it so difficult that he has to continually change his bots to combat your gates. Which narrows down his performance and there of influence. If he's constantly writing/changing code to overcome your gates, he doesn't have time to use them :D
 

sollisb

Banned
Dodging the main star and the planet which the station orbits?

No, that's easy too. It's again a pain in the bottom tho. Because you have to assume from he outset that your going to drop into the station not facing the optimal way. To do otherwise creates a situation where like you say you have to dodge . Much easier just to navigate to the drop in point and drop. Then execute orientate to station entrance, which is a matter of deciding where you in relation to the station, front, behind, side etc. Then boost to a more favourable location and then re-orientate. Or just drop and get 7.5k to station body and use Docking Computer.

Think of it this way.. If you were asked to write a docking computer, for Elite, how would you start? The starting point is to treat or see, your ship as a rectangular block... now it becomes much much easier :)
 
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I think a bot could forgo the whole ordeal of navigating to the station exit by simply Launch -> Exit to Menu -> Reconnect.. ......

I think that was changed - if you disconnect after launch now, reconnecting puts you back in the hangar rather than 10km out front. - I assume many noob anacondas and cutters were hurt by this cunning plan. :)
 
You need to think like the botters....

If losing one ship is critical, just add 4 more for redundancy. Seriously, I've been down this road before, with a different game as the main lib coder trying to overcome bots. You have to think like them and think, how would I do X, how would I do Y. What happens if he does this or he does that. As the defender, you have to base everything on... The botter always wins. He has more time to think and create ways than you have to combat. So, you think like them as above and install gates. Ok, so the botter can use the green and red light. Make the red light green. Make the red light blink. remove the red light. One light in 3D space means nothing. You keep adding gates and adding more gates. Eventually you end up in a situation where the botter gives up, or, you've made it so difficult that he has to continually change his bots to combat your gates. Which narrows down his performance and there of influence. If he's constantly writing/changing code to overcome your gates, he doesn't have time to use them :D

AFK on its own is not a crime, its doing it in a practically risk free way misusing heal beams and PG mode that is. Multiboxing is another murky area that FD seem to have ignored too.
 
Funny story- I was accused of being a "bot" in World of Tanks recently.... as I had a Big "B" in front of my player name (badge for folks who were beta testers) :p
 
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sollisb

Banned
AFK on its own is not a crime, its doing it in a practically risk free way misusing heal beams and PG mode that is. Multiboxing is another murky area that FD seem to have ignored too.

I'm all for killing bots and putting up the gates like I said. However don't touch my multi-boxing :D
 

sollisb

Banned
Funny story- I was accused of being a "bot" in World of Tanks recently.... as I had a Big "B" in front of my player name (badge for folks who were beta testers) :p

Idiots, Everywhere, Idiots :) :)

Might I make a suggestion.. You're sig... 'without knowledge, lustre or name'. reads better to my English mind :D

EDIT: Nevermind, I just found 'Nemesis'. and reading the entire poem, makes it perfect English :)

<o
 
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I'm assuming the role bots take in PP is strictly a delivery one, and that makes me wonder about the logistics of it. Do these bots maintain rank 5 and only fill up on free haulage, or would they also bot farm the credits to finance buying all that tonnage at 100k (think that's right, been a while since I've done PP)?

Not an expert on bots. I have to assume the most efficient method is maintain rank 4 or 5 to obtain the maximum number of "things" to bring from base to expansion target or fortify target, go there, deliver "stuff" and either wait to return for the 30 minute timer to ding or return back to base and wait for the 30 minute timer to ding, lather, rise, repeat. Doing this 24/7 would give the bot owner top rank without the wait, wait, wait, wait, etc.

I would have to assume that the bot owner would have to leave that account as 100% bot-owned doing that power play thing and miss-out on actual play advantages (PP perks, etc, winging up with friends, etc). Has anyone seen a "bot" ship actually being used by an actual player at any time, or do they always and only operate as a bot?

[tinfoil]They never were bots, but players acting like bots as Agent Provocateurs to push an Open Only agenda. That only makes sense when we are talking about spies, infiltrators and 5C.[/tinfoil]

I was wondering why there's such a HUGE uptick in demand for aluminum at Weaver Vision recently.
 
Proof has been discovered and handed to frontier to deal with, this IS a real threat and the bots are relatively advanced. those who claim Open Only PP is not a fix are wrong, we could then interdict and prevent them harming the faction... Botting in Elite is nothing new and has been a thing for years.

That might help if instancing wasn't such a crapshoot, but even then the point of bots is deploying hundreds of them - you're not going to be able to catch enough to make a difference. Sure, all those braindead ships would be plenty of evidence that there's botting going on, but it sounds like you already have that. The only real fix for botting is for FDev to shut down their accounts.
 
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I think that was changed - if you disconnect after launch now, reconnecting puts you back in the hangar rather than 10km out front. - I assume many noob anacondas and cutters were hurt by this cunning plan. :)

This is actually great. It lets you stop an accidental launch.
 
Maybe it is actually F D working to keep LYR space viable since there seems to be concerted efforts by player groups to diminish LYR. (Presumably the PGs are seeking to deprive people of the 15% discount?)

Even though that would be the ultimate richard move, I think it's more likely that some player group wants the 15% discount in their own backyard, and don't really care what it costs the power. It may be worthwhile seeing if this expansion is in a specific direction.
 
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