Anti ADS people JUSTIFY your no compromise stance here.

[-VR- Max Factor]

so what if it insta revealed every object, how does that affect you?

Never said it did.

You only need to fly to an ELW or WW to map it, you get first discovered sat in the warm glow of the entry sun...is THAT exploring?

Never said it was. But you ha e discovered them so you should be tagged for them. Never understood why you weren't in the old version.

who cares what YOU think is exploring or not?

I can say the same for all the pro ADS folks then.

Hello Mcfly the FSS will still be there....(I give up)

I never said it wouldn't be.

The dev time (already in op) and bugs introduction (adding to op number 3)are valid concerns well done.

Thanks. My main thing is that adding it back in is completely unnecessary as the gameplay they did before is still there but it is behind a gameplay wall. People not wanting to do gameplay in a computer game I find odd.

Basically there is no reason to add it back, but have no
issue with a suitable compromise, as long as it is suitable and wotks with the FSS. Any compromise should not be a full replaccement, but something that can work the FSS.

I have already written that compromise down in the other thread, but true to form the pro ADS peeps have not even commented and it looks like they do not want a compromise.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I seriously do not understand where you're getting that hyperbole of (returning the ADS will break exploring) from ...just wut?

No you don't get a fatality, you get a "well done you're on LM ignore list" I just cannot get down to your level.

Either you’ve not been around that long or you take extended breaks from Elite to not understand, so I’ll explain it. Any time there has been significant changes made, or even seemingly simple changes made, Elite breaks, goes haywire or something completely unexpected happens.

Most notable Case-in-Point: The Beigification, when all planets turned that dreadful shade, because they added a planet’s chemical makeup to it’s appearance. The lasted for quite long time.
There have been quite a few such events. No reason to think it wouldn’t happen again.

As for who’s on what level... look here, I was having an adult discussion. You’re trying to make personal attacks, I suspect because you know your position is that weak and untenable, so you throw out this infantile jab that no one is going “ohhh!” about, so don’t even bother. As for ignore lists... not even worth my effort. You want to hide that way, that’s fine, doesn’t change a thing for me. I won’t even bother to report the lame personal attack because I want people to see how sad it is.

 

[DaveB]

I disagree, also why exactly is it bad for someone to use both ADS and FSS??

Well, I could give you all the arguments from various software development methodologies and user interface studies, but what it really comes down to is this... FD made a choice. If they were OK with a hybrid mechanic existing in the game it would have been there.

So ultimately, for folks who previously depended on the ADS it's "adapt or die"

We've seen this in other gameplay aspects, now it's hit this one. And, to be perfectly honest, having done a back-to-back exploration comparison between the beta and the live game, flying roughly the same route with no previous "serious exploration" background, I saw little difference in the time sink and much more "experiencable gameplay" in the new system... so frankly there's your ultimate justification. FD decided this was "better" and we now need to play with it - or not.

You or I don't have a role in that decision. we can like it or not, gripe or cheer on the forums or not, but this is the game now. Play it or don't. Personally I am ok with it. The folks that aren't, well, they need to make a decision whether it's "bad enough" to stop them playing. I suspect most folks will adapt to it. The ones that can't, either they will repurpose their cmdr as something other than an explorer or they'll quit the game. If the latter, we'll miss them. But we'll carry on playing the game.

 

[MrFailfactory]

So seeing "at a glance" by just PRESSING A BUTTON that there are ELW and WW via the FSS tuning doobry is wrong..thank you let's dump the FSS then peeps.
If you'd bother to read some posts on the subject you'd see many peoples gameplay has been negatively affected by the removal of the ADS.​

Deliberately or not, you seem to have missed the point, so I'll try again.

Absolutely zero gameplay has been lost. Zero. Some Exploration styles take longer with the FSS than they did with the ADS, but that does not equal removed from the game.

They can still do their thing (and get a lot more other information for doing so that they may or may not find worthwhile). They just want to be able to do it as quickly as they used to, and while that is fair, it's not a compelling reason to bring the ADS functionality back. Not compelling at all, in fact.

Please stop acting like the old ADS and current mechanics could actually coexist, because they can't. This is for the OP, Askavir, Drew, and others - believing such is willful ignorance of human behavior at best, and rank stupidity at worst. Keep looking the other way from the obvious truth to suit your agenda if you like, but I would say that most people aren't fooled by it.

Riôt

 

[Gut Rumble]

The fss is just another Frontier time sink , all you do is play the blobby game to show the system ,once you get to this point your at where the ADS is with the ` Honk` except you get all info ( and no flying 20Kls to scan a body) The new fss has also made `names ` on bodies pointless , when was the last time you scanned a system and actually noticed who was there before lol . It's not Exploring anymore ,it's just going out and finding stuff now . the fss is the lazy explorers ideal tool.

 

[askavir]

You have information you want faster than with the other method. Why are you even arguing about it? Just say:"yes, I want to have the advantage of knowing a certain thing in a much quicker way than if I were to use the FSS." Then you can argue that it is an 'harmless advantage' if you want. Which would still be contestable. Because you want that advantage for a reason. You are looking for certain systems with certain properties. And with the ADS you can skim systems faster to get to the 'interesting ones'. That means that two people hunting the same stuff, one using the ADS and other not, the one with the ADS would find more interesting systems than the other bloke. Which is what Jukelo referred to: there is an advantage, and people who want whatever the advantage gives would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didnt use the ADS.

Now, you can say:"I want this advantage, and I dont really care about others when it comes to this." Which would be both fine and honest.

You're really grasping at straws by now...

The only "advantage" I want with an optional ADS is to not have to do a tedious minigame over and over and over again. I couldn't care less about who finds what first, or if I'm the 1st, 2nd, 4th or 2312th to see the "interesting system". It's not a competition (even if it was, it would be a very lame one because it would be based on pure luck). The exploration community has always been about cooperation and sharing information, there's immense threads of compiled info on the exporation subforum, loads of external tools to tell you where the nice stuff is, shared by explorers. In fact, in over 4 years, nobody had ever hinted about exploration being some kind of "competition" until you.

 

[Stigbob]

The fss is just another Frontier time sink , all you do is play the blobby game to show the system ,once you get to this point your at where the ADS is with the ` Honk` except you get all info ( and no flying 20Kls to scan a body) The new fss has also made `names ` on bodies pointless , when was the last time you scanned a system and actually noticed who was there before lol . It's not Exploring anymore ,it's just going out and finding stuff now . the fss is the lazy explorers ideal tool.

"going out and finding stuff" is a pretty good description of exploring.

 

[Old Duck]

I personally think FD dropped the ball on this BIG time....

At the risk of drifting off topic, I agree with you. I actually quit Overwatch for the same reasons many people are considering quitting ED - they "upgraded" certain characters that I specialized in playing, by removing the very core of what those characters were and replacing their gameplay with something radically different. I'll be the first to admit that the new versions may indeed be better for the masses, but it ruined the characters for me. And they keep doing it! Every two weeks I read, "This character gets nerfed. and "That character gets buffed." and "This other character gets a complete rework." It's like playing chess with the rules being constantly rewritten in the middle of a game!

ED has taken a similar path, and not just with Exploration. C&P comes to mind, visuals (new lighting system), etc. It's one thing to add new gameplay, but doing so by removing old gameplay that people have grown accustomed to is not a good practice.

This is why I question the future of "you play while we build" games. I'm finding myself turned off by the "everything keeps changing" approach ED is taking, and I love the new FSS. It's like a Doctor Strange movie - everything is moving like a bad acid trip.

While that might seem off-topic, it's actually the main reason I am willing to compromise when it comes to bringing the ADS back, as an optional, separate module. Now if Blizzard would just let me play my characters using the old configuration...

 

[Skip Rockbounder]

I think a couple of you are mistaking the pushing of the ADS button as perceived game play, NO, the game play part is what happens BECAUSE of the button push.

It allows players to quickly decide whether they wish to stay and do the FSS thing or leave because there is nothing of interest there for them.

 

[Ian Skippy]

nobody had ever hinted about exploration being some kind of "competition" until you.

Well, nobody other than FD when they introduced a literal leaderboard for exploration, and hand out in-game medals for the winners. And put the name of those who discover something first on there. And then give them extra money for it in-game. Oh, and the codex, where the first people to discover something get in-game accolades. But yeah, other than that I can totally claim credit for pioneering that idea. [haha]

"CGs are a competition? I dont care at all if I truck more. Us truckers are very friendly and cooperative! Nobody ever even hinted at CGs being competitive!"

Thats great and all, but there are factually competitive elements. You not caring doesnt really change reality.

 

[Gut Rumble]

"going out and finding stuff" is a pretty good description of exploring.

.
.
You could play this blue blob game from a space station while docked from the galaxy map lol ,that is not Exploring , that's just finding stuff and not looking at what you find ,

 

[Stigbob]

.
.
You could play this blue blob game from a space station while docked from the galaxy map lol ,that is not Exploring , that's just finding stuff and not looking at what you find ,

And that differs from the honk ?.

 

[askavir]

And with the ADS you can skim systems faster to get to the 'interesting ones'.

Well, nobody other than FD when they introduced a literal leaderboard for exploration, and hand out in-game medals for the winners. And put the name of those who discover something first on there. And then give them extra money for it in-game. Oh, and the codex, where the first people to discover something get in-game accolades. But yeah, other than that I can totally claim credit for pioneering that idea. [haha]

Well there's nothing on the leaderboard for top finding "interesting systems"... And the codex has no entry for "interesting systems" either, only has specific things like specific stars, specific planet types, and specific planetary POIs, all of which are easier and faster to find and claim with the FSS.

I think you may have left a window open, just seen your perceived ADS advantage flying away...

 

[Ian Skippy]

Well there's nothing on the leaderboard for top finding "interesting systems"... And the codex has no entry for "interesting systems" either, only has specific things like specific stars, specific planet types, and specific planetary POIs, all of which are easier and faster to find and claim with the FSS.

I think you may have left a window open, just seen your perceived ADS advantage flying away...

Again. You want something. You can get it faster with the ADS than the FSS. That means the ADS has an advantage over the FSS.

I am honestly confused why it is so hard to just admit it. What are you scared of? Do you think Sandro will jump from the bushes and say:"Aha! An advantage! I knew it! I was just about to plug the ADS back in but now I will permanently delete the code, muahahahaha!".

You do want an advantage. There is an overlap. There are competitive elements. All of these are facts. They could very well be irrelevant facts, but then argue that instead of simply denying them.

 

[EISENHORN01]

On the plus side this topic(thread 426) actually got quite a few pages in before it degenerated in to a “your mom ner ner “ name calling bun fight. Could be a record

 

[Leper Messiah]

Change is most certainly a valid reason. FD were vilified for their exploration mechanics.

Your entire argument for the ADS back is opinion. Your opinion that the ADS was better. Bringing back the ADS is certainly just as selfish an opinion as the leave it in the bin opinion.

No "change" is not a good enough reason TO REMOVE SOMETHING that a LOT of people used and like and developed a gameplay around, change for changes sake is also bad.

I'm arguing for a compromise,
READ MY LIPS....I have NEVER said the ADS is better, quite the reverse in fact.
Bringing back the ADS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FSS would indeed be selfish.....that's not what I have asked for (please read my posts better)

 

[Leper Messiah]

Well, I could give you all the arguments from various software development methodologies and user interface studies, but what it really comes down to is this... FD made a choice. If they were OK with a hybrid mechanic existing in the game it would have been there.

So ultimately, for folks who previously depended on the ADS it's "adapt or die"

We've seen this in other gameplay aspects, now it's hit this one. And, to be perfectly honest, having done a back-to-back exploration comparison between the beta and the live game, flying roughly the same route with no previous "serious exploration" background, I saw little difference in the time sink and much more "experiencable gameplay" in the new system... so frankly there's your ultimate justification. FD decided this was "better" and we now need to play with it - or not.

You or I don't have a role in that decision. we can like it or not, gripe or cheer on the forums or not, but this is the game now. Play it or don't. Personally I am ok with it. The folks that aren't, well, they need to make a decision whether it's "bad enough" to stop them playing. I suspect most folks will adapt to it. The ones that can't, either they will repurpose their cmdr as something other than an explorer or they'll quit the game. If the latter, we'll miss them. But we'll carry on playing the game.

So you can't justify it either, ok.

oh and the best GUIs and UI give users multiple ways to do things....it's called CHOICE, losing choice is bad.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Deliberately or not, you seem to have missed the point, so I'll try again.

Absolutely zero gameplay has been lost. Zero. Some Exploration styles take longer with the FSS than they did with the ADS, but that does not equal removed from the game.

They can still do their thing (and get a lot more other information for doing so that they may or may not find worthwhile). They just want to be able to do it as quickly as they used to, and while that is fair, it's not a compelling reason to bring the ADS functionality back. Not compelling at all, in fact.

Please stop acting like the old ADS and current mechanics could actually coexist, because they can't. This is for the OP, Askavir, Drew, and others - believing such is willful ignorance of human behavior at best, and rank stupidity at worst. Keep looking the other way from the obvious truth to suit your agenda if you like, but I would say that most people aren't fooled by it.

Riôt

No YOU have missed the point, by such a collosal distance I think it's not even in the same universe, go read some of the threads of people who had different gameplay that has been adversly affected by the FSS. But you won't because you DON'T CARE, fair enough...you have no valid reason to justify a non compromise, because you do not understand the way other people explored.

 

[Leper Messiah]

What gave it away? All of the melodramatic sighing that accompanied each and every response he's typed in the thread?

Try having a shed load of people misinterpret your post/opinion/reason for posting etc etc and not get frustrated. I did this to collate reasonable objections and so far it's 3 before the usual nonsense descended and I just cannot drop that far into the gutter.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

.
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You could play this blue blob game from a space station while docked from the galaxy map lol ,that is not Exploring , that's just finding stuff and not looking at what you find ,

So are you saying that pressing a button for five seconds which finds every single planetary body in a system, which you can do from a station is?

I never understand these comments, they never make any sense what so ever.