Anti ADS people JUSTIFY your no compromise stance here.

[Leper Messiah]

The fss is just another Frontier time sink , all you do is play the blobby game to show the system ,once you get to this point your at where the ADS is with the ` Honk` except you get all info ( and no flying 20Kls to scan a body) The new fss has also made `names ` on bodies pointless , when was the last time you scanned a system and actually noticed who was there before lol . It's not Exploring anymore ,it's just going out and finding stuff now . the fss is the lazy explorers ideal tool.

Absolutely true because that is 100% why I like the new FSS, I'm a LAZY EXPLORER and it's PERFECT for me! I'm not a massive fan of the blue blob game, but I prefer it over the flying to every planet drudge. But I will support those that want to be able to go back to that. But apparently I'm a pro ADS nutter.

 

[Leper Messiah]

At the risk of drifting off topic, I agree with you. I actually quit Overwatch for the same reasons many people are considering quitting ED - they "upgraded" certain characters that I specialized in playing, by removing the very core of what those characters were and replacing their gameplay with something radically different. I'll be the first to admit that the new versions may indeed be better for the masses, but it ruined the characters for me. And they keep doing it! Every two weeks I read, "This character gets nerfed. and "That character gets buffed." and "This other character gets a complete rework." It's like playing chess with the rules being constantly rewritten in the middle of a game!

ED has taken a similar path, and not just with Exploration. C&P comes to mind, visuals (new lighting system), etc. It's one thing to add new gameplay, but doing so by removing old gameplay that people have grown accustomed to is not a good practice.

This is why I question the future of "you play while we build" games. I'm finding myself turned off by the "everything keeps changing" approach ED is taking, and I love the new FSS. It's like a Doctor Strange movie - everything is moving like a bad acid trip.

While that might seem off-topic, it's actually the main reason I am willing to compromise when it comes to bringing the ADS back, as an optional, separate module. Now if Blizzard would just let me play my characters using the old configuration...

Indeed, it's a sad aspect of todays mainly online gaming IMO. Also I feel devs listen too much to the META players at the very top and ruin games for everybody else, but as you say going a bit off topic.

back on topic, the best way to do things is to ADD but not wholesale removal of other things.

 

[Ian Skippy]

So are you saying that pressing a button for five seconds which finds every single planetary body in a system, which you can do from a station is?

I never understand these comments, they never make any sense what so ever.

Because some people just cannot make simple statements without becoming very insecure. They cant say "I like X". They have to say:"I like X, and if you dont you are a poopypants."

 

[Leper Messiah]

I think a couple of you are mistaking the pushing of the ADS button as perceived game play, NO, the game play part is what happens BECAUSE of the button push.

It allows players to quickly decide whether they wish to stay and do the FSS thing or leave because there is nothing of interest there for them.

This is pretty much at the root of why so much nonsense get's spouted, complete lack of understanding at a fundamental level of what exactly happened to some explorers gameplay when the ADS was removed.

I'm 100% certain I'll get a "but you CAN get that from the FSS twiddle blueblob game"..........ah sanity...it's been good knowing you, but I'm off <wibble>

 

[Old Duck]

They have to say:"I like X, and if you dont you are a poopypants."

Elephants don't wear pants...

 

[Kaocraft]

Because doing something is better than not doing something and the ADD scanner is the epitome of not doing something.

Anyway the anti ADD scanner people already won. It's your job to write something so compelling that it makes us WANT the ADD scanner back. You are the one who has to justify your position because you are the one demanding something. We don't have to justify anything. We are already completely justified by mere dint of our perfect shining magnificent existence.

 

[PiLhEaD]

1) Not liking the ADS is NOT a valid reason; 2) Liking the new FSS mechanic is NOT a valid reason; 3) Not liking others to have a choice is NOT a valid reason...

Can all proponents of the ADS please not argue based on:

1) Not liking the FSS
2) Liking the ADS
3) Not liking FDev changing their game

fwiw - I had thought that there is still the ability to explore in the same old way, and it wouldn't bother me remotely if it was.

 

[Red Anders]

Read it again, mate, please. I never said any of that. Again: you can populate the system map much faster using the ADS. That is called 'an advantage'. Claiming it isn't is just pointless. His claim 'there is no overlap' between ADS and FSS is also comically daft. The FSS is the combination of ADS + DSS. So obviously there is an overlap between ADS and FSS. And obviously there is some advantage to the ADS.

Can we at least just speak plainly and honestly? You want to populate the system map in a few seconds by holding a button? Fine, just an opinion. But lets not pretend that wouldn be an advantage, because if it werent nobody would be asking for it.

I genuinely don't see it that way, or at least the 'advantage' is one that's wholly grounded in how I prefer to play rather than one that meets any kind of objective test.

Perhaps it would help if I explain the way I look at it, which after all is the only thing I'm basing my own opinion about this topic on.

Exploration/discovery (lets not get hung up on terms) had three tiers; honking which was very quick but gave only basic information about a system, detail scanning, which gave much more information but was relatively time consuming, and finally gaining knowledge of what was actually on a planetary surface (e.g geological features etc), discovering which I hope we can both agree was into masochist territory.

In the new system, tiers 1 and 2 are combined, with no way for the player to separate them. Completing that combined process is faster than completing tiers 1 and 2 of the old system, which on the face of things is an advantage over the old system, the advantage being that you're getting all of the data you used to get from both tiers much faster.

However that pre-supposes that the data that you used to get from tier 2 has some value to you as a player. In a lot of cases, it has no value at all to me; that's exactly why under the old system, in many cases tier 1 was all I needed to do. It's like me going for a hamburger and being given a case of gin for free with it. Seems like a great deal but unfortunately I hate gin, so it's completely worthless to me, I just want the burger.

So yes, I do want to be able to get JUST a system map overview from a quick honk and yes, to me that would be an advantage over the current system. I strongly dispute that it would give me as a player any kind of advantage over another player who loves the FSS mechanic though, precisely because I have to assume they do in fact attach some value to the 'tier 2' data since they're so incredibly pleased about the new system which is giving it to them and they would not get that from a quick honk.

That's the thing I can't get my head round here - what advantage player X thinks I'd be getting over them by having a quick yet basic system map. Bearing in mind that if their answer is 'well I want a quick yet basic system map too' they would be able to get one by equipping the same damn module.

I simply do not understand what is supposedly so wrong about wanting basic system information from a honk. I mean I've seen some utterly absurd attempts to conflate it with a button that instantly kills npcs and God knows what else, yet it's the way that every single one of us was exploring between 2014 and one month ago. Now it's being treated like it's some completely crazy thing that nobody in their right mind could think was reasonable. I just find the logic involved to be absolutely baffling.

 

[OBYOZ]

Deleted

 

[jasonbarron]

Because doing something is better than not doing something and the ADD scanner is the epitome of not doing something.

Anyway the anti ADD scanner people already won. It's your job to write something so compelling that it makes us WANT the ADD scanner back. You are the one who has to justify your position because you are the one demanding something. We don't have to justify anything. We are already completely justified by mere dint of our perfect shining magnificent existence.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

What gave it away? All of the melodramatic sighing that accompanied each and every response he's typed in the thread?

Threads like this show how memes are born, yeah?

 

[Astrometer]

I think a couple of you are mistaking the pushing of the ADS button as perceived game play, NO, the game play part is what happens BECAUSE of the button push.

It allows players to quickly decide whether they wish to stay and do the FSS thing or leave because there is nothing of interest there for them.

It's like a module that gives you a sneak peek into the future. It shows a view of the system you could discover if you scanned it, but lets you just close it and leave it 'undiscovered' even though you know exactly what's there. It makes no sense at all. Nothing should be showing the the system map unless it's been seen by someone and recorded by visiting it or viewing it by the FSS.

Try explaining it to a newbie. "The FSS is a scanner that you use to discover what bodies are in the system. Oh what's the ADS then. Ah, thats another scanner that shows you what the first scanner is going to show you before you do it in case you don't want to bother."

 

[Abbadon]

Well I stopped playing elite almost 2years ago. I log in from time to time and fly around a bit. I follow the development from beta and I`m still waiting for my version of Elite

I read trough this thread, because it calms me down when I read/listen "junk" on the internet after work, and I`d like to share my 2cents on the matter.

Well as you probably all know, Elite is the last game where you wanna revert major features. Not just because they are slow, simply the scope of the game was never small. Also I might be just far away enough from this project to be calm enough to see -> The new exploration system is a more advanced and richer game mechanic, that can scale with the game and offer more features throughout all the game areas, including pve/pvp, trading and "missions" and who knows what lies ahead. It's simply a better investment for the Developers and for me as well, who is still waiting for his dream space flight sim.

Also:

...

oh and the best GUIs and UI give users multiple ways to do things....it's called CHOICE, losing choice is bad.

This is just plain stupid

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I think a couple of you are mistaking the pushing of the ADS button as perceived game play, NO, the game play part is what happens BECAUSE of the button push.

It allows players to quickly decide whether they wish to stay and do the FSS thing or leave because there is nothing of interest there for them.

Is that the bit where you fly in a straight line and when you get near a planet you get a small scanning animation for about 10 seconds, and then change direction and rinse and repeat?

 

[Leper Messiah]

Never said it did.

sooo why did you bring it up?

Never said it was. But you ha e discovered them so you should be tagged for them. Never understood why you weren't in the old version.

eh?

I can say the same for all the pro ADS folks then.

I said that originally as something Anti ADS people are saying, you can't twist it back on me as it was a twist in the first place. but it worked eh not nice when someone belligerently disregards your playstyle. In reality I try to understand and respect ALL ways of exploring hence this thread. shame the same can't be said of others.

I never said it wouldn't be.

gawd so what the hell WAS your point in that post then?

Thanks. My main thing is that adding it back in is completely unnecessary as the gameplay they did before is still there but it is behind a gameplay wall. People not wanting to do gameplay in a computer game I find odd.

Basically there is no reason to add it back, but have no
issue with a suitable compromise, as long as it is suitable and wotks with the FSS. Any compromise should not be a full replaccement, but something that can work the FSS.

I have already written that compromise down in the other thread, but true to form the pro ADS peeps have not even commented and it looks like they do not want a compromise.

You DO realise some people like plaformers others hate them, some like RPGs, some hate them, it's PERFECTLY normal to dislike gameplay in a computer game!!!

There ARE reasons, just none you empathise or sympathise with, or even understand (I know I don't fully understand why some people explore the way they do, I just don't think just becuase "I" don't understand is a valid reason not return the ADS in some way). I think most pro ADS peeps have "given up" due to the avalanche of negativity. Post link to your suggestion here and I'll have a butchers FWIW.

 

[MrFailfactory]

No YOU have missed the point, by such a collosal distance I think it's not even in the same universe, go read some of the threads of people who had different gameplay that has been adversly affected by the FSS. But you won't because you DON'T CARE, fair enough...you have no valid reason to justify a non compromise, because you do not understand the way other people explored.

I have read them, and in fact, have acknowledged their concerns by saying that what they used to do now takes longer. I have done this twice now, in just this thread alone, but also in a number of other threads.

That doesn't change the simple fact that their style has not been removed, a point that you keep failing to acknowledge, despite the fact that I have mentioned it more than once, again, in this thread alone.

By the way, compromise is a condescending method of placation. In other words, it's no good for anyone involved.

Riôt

 

[babelfisch]

For the people who want the ADS back, a populated system map is not an end or a goal in itself, but merely a starting point.

Additionally, the ADS may reveal the planet positions, but it does not grant any other benefit from it (neither credits, nor discovery tags, nor detailed information).

So, as a compromise, would it be fine to get the ADS back but without system map revealing functionality? It would just give you an entry of unexplored bodies in the nav list and if you want to avoid the FSS you would need to fly up close to discover them. I doubt that many people arguing for the ADS would be happy with that.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Also:


This is just plain stupid

why?

I can open a file in windows using just one method or multiple? Double click, right click and "open with", put exe in my start bar and launch it there one click, so choice is bad eh...cretin.

 

[babelfisch]

Lore / technology wise, Frontier kinda got things backwards. If we had the FSS first for all these years, Frontier could have introduced the ADS later as some sort of newly-discovered Guardian technology (requiring the appropriate grinding gameplay to unlock).

This is true, but it's not the point I wanted to make. For the benefit of better gameplay I am willing to act like the ADS never existed and we always used the FSS. Without that the game could hardly improve in any direction. My post was more about the logic of a coexistence of ADS and FSS.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

sooo why did you bring it up?



eh?



I said that originally as something Anti ADS people are saying, you can't twist it back on me as it was a twist in the first place. but it worked eh not nice when someone belligerently disregards your playstyle. In reality I try to understand and respect ALL ways of exploring hence this thread. shame the same can't be said of others.




gawd so what the hell WAS your point in that post then?



You DO realise some people like plaformers others hate them, some like RPGs, some hate them, it's PERFECTLY normal to dislike gameplay in a computer game!!!

There ARE reasons, just none you empathise or sympathise with, or even understand (I know I don't fully understand why some people explore the way they do, I just don't think just becuase "I" don't understand is a valid reason not return the ADS in some way). I think most pro ADS peeps have "given up" due to the avalanche of negativity. Post link to your suggestion here and I'll have a butchers FWIW.

Sure here it is:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...her-bought-an-old-radio?p=7331836#post7331836