Does anyone actually enjoy engineering?

[Blackcompany]

I know what are you trying to say, but there are a lot of artifical limitations that make a huge distinctions between different kinds of ships, and those limitations shoudn't even exist at all, they are meaningless.

Jump Range as a balance is so terrible. None of these militaries would tolerate 7LY on a Vette.

The big fear: if combat ships had high range, there would be no reason to fly non combat ships. Well, that's a game design failure, not a ship balance issue.

 

[EternalSorrow]

Anything that reduces ship HP is welcome. fights shouldn't last minutes. It's a dogfight, not a chess match.

There were some attempts to remove megashields from the game, but big and loud part of the playerbase started wining. So, they were buffed eventually.

 

[House0fDerp]

I know what are you trying to say, but there are a lot of artifical limitations that make a huge distinctions between different kinds of ships, and those limitations shouldn't even exist at all, they are meaningless.

Indistinct ships invite redundancy. They're also harder to balance as any remaining distinctions is probably going to just be a vertical power ladder. Roles aren't inherently bad, though some means of role distinction could probably use work.

 

[mp4x]

I don't understand guys, who are always telling that everything is fine, and not even trying to think how it could be done better. There are a bunch of games to compare with. Damn, Elite looses even in comparison with itself in after-release times. It had a much slower progression, but much steeper. You haven't really needed a super-cool ship or upgrades to completely enjoy the game, even in PvP.

Everything can be made better, it's the faults we might not agree on.

 

[ADAMtheWELSHMANz]

Yes

 

[Glock_N_Load]

I've learned a lot of the mechanics of the game through engineering. Landing on planets, finding places with just the coordinates, mining with the SUV.......etc

 

[Sylow]

Jump Range as a balance is so terrible. None of these militaries would tolerate 7LY on a Vette.

The big fear: if combat ships had high range, there would be no reason to fly non combat ships. Well, that's a game design failure, not a ship balance issue.

Actually i see a parallel for this in real life military. Look at a number of combat planes. A lot of them come with rather small internal fuel tanks but the option to carry external fuel tanks. The choice is to be made before a mission.

In my eyes, the logic could be along the lines that when an enemy attacks us, we don't need to go far. So we rather lift off armed to the teeth. If the mission target is behind enemy lines, you just have to sacrifice some armament for extended range.

Military ships in ED kind of look the same to me: you can use all their internals for combat purposes. You can do one or two jumps, but not quickly charge to the other end of the bubble. That's perfectly fine when defending against attackers. I would even expect most system defense ships to never leave the system they are meant for.

If you want to attack a distant target, you have to pack a fuel scoop or check if a bigger fuel tank also does the job. It's not the ships or its designers fault, that we murder hobos like to use short range interceptors as caravans.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I keep hoping fdev will take a new direction. Choose compelling game play over grind. But, well...

No. By now they've fully realised what they did with engineers and power creep and they go the same route like most and simply embrace the vicious cycle. Tearing it out would maybe break more than it does good and there's so many players addicted to the power juice it wouldn't be funny if they get put on cold turkey over night.

 

[NeilF]

I keep hoping fdev will take a new direction. Choose compelling game play over grind. But, well...

Well, maybe the rumoured new mission packs that seem to be on the way might help on that front.

BUT, given over the past 4yrs so little effort has been dedicated to actually create more involved mechanics and gameplay in the game (instead with development all too often going on shallow bolt on additions), it's going to be hard to envisage what these missions can leverage? ie: There's not even the mechanics after all this time to even do the most basic of space shooter gameplay of things like escort and protect a convoy through an asteroid field, with a wing of ships/fighters you can give simple commands to - ie: You could do this over 25yrs ago in other space shooters.

So I can only envisage these mission packs (if they are coming) will be heavy on art and cut-scenes, and light on actual gameplay depth...

Nightmare Scenario: Some of these mission packs are to unlock/obtain yet more specialised weapons or the like... in an already over saturated area of the game.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Well, maybe the rumoured new mission packs that seem to be on the way might help on that front.

BUT, given over the past 4yrs so little effort has been dedicated to actually create more involved mechanics and gameplay in the game (instead with development all too often going on shallow bolt on additions), it's going to be hard to envisage what these missions can leverage? ie: There's not even the mechanics after all this time to even do the most basic of space shooter gameplay of things like escort and protect a convoy through an asteroid field, with a wing of ships/fighters you can give simple commands to - ie: You could do this over 25yrs ago in other space shooters.

So I can only envisage these mission packs (if they are coming) will be heavy on art and cut-scenes, and light on actual gameplay depth...

Nightmare Scenario: Some of these mission packs are to unlock/obtain yet more specialised weapons or the like... in an already over saturated area of the game.

You'll need a souped up engineered ship so you can saviour the pride and accomplishments properly. So I doubt it'd be anything I'm looking for.

 

[Stigbob]

No. By now they've fully realised what they did with engineers and power creep and they go the same route like most and simply embrace the vicious cycle. Tearing it out would maybe break more than it does good and there's so many players addicted to the power juice it wouldn't be funny if they get put on cold turkey over night.

Engineers was a fantastic addition to the game, really good fun nothing but positives. As long as you don't grind at it.

 

[NeilF]

You'll need a souped up engineered ship so you can saviour the pride and accomplishments properly. So I doubt it'd be anything I'm looking for.

Yep, Engineering created a whole significant balancing nightmare forever more (all so as to create time sponge grinds using the already rather thin gameplay loops)... It creates ships basically with multiples more the combat strength which just creates immense balancing issues for both PvE and PvP.

Engineering should have been subtle improvements as regards combat. Not game changing stats with magic spells on top!

Spoiler

It was an very poor design choice IMHO...

 

[B1rdy]

I agree, but also - opening a cargo hatch and firing off a limpet is just two button presses.

Other games try and make the looting process more easy to the player. Far Cry 5 even removed disrupting looting animations to enemies and plants, which were established with the prequels. Freelancer had a tractor beam. In Conan Exiles you can loot an enemy by a single button press. In the last three Tomb Raider games, you could unlock perks for instant looting of enemies. Other games don't have that amount of different loot.
Picking up stuff in ED is rather awkward either way. Scooping up mats directly using the cargo hatch or the requirement of fitting an extra model and limpets. The latter can be difficult, at least for for smaller ships. And also be sure to have enough limpets.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Other games try and make the looting process more easy to the player. Far Cry 5 even removed disrupting looting animations to enemies and plants, which were established with the prequels. Freelancer had a tractor beam. In Conan Exiles you can loot an enemy by a single button press. In the last three Tomb Raider games, you could unlock perks for instant looting of enemies. Other games don't have that amount of different loot.
Picking up stuff in ED is rather awkward either way. Scooping up mats directly using the cargo hatch or the requirement of fitting an extra model and limpets. The latter can be difficult, at least for for smaller ships. And also be sure to have enough limpets.

Ye, but honestly, I couldn't see myself driving through loot pickups until super mario bling-sounds as pickup confirmation. The mana and healthbubbles in Warframe already strain my suspension of disbelief very hard. The problem in Elite is rather that someone thought having mahoosive loot counts in super diluted spawn tables was a brilliant idea and you have to do the thing just too often to be fun. Then again it was probably fueled by the extremohongo power juice to be gained from a certain game mechanic - "We can't give that out for free, can we?".

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Personally, I quite enjoyed the process of unlocking the engineers (With the exception of Qwent!! May he Burn in hell!!). It forced me to try bits of game play that I never considered doing (base raids, mining) and enjoyed most of it, to be honest.

As far as the process of upgrading is concerned, well, the new system is certainly better than the old one but the gathering mats is still a bit of a pain. Again, 3.3 has improved that with being able to find places of interest on planets easier. I was able to upgrade my Phantom's jump Drive within a few hours, instead of the days it took before.

 

[MarkAusten]

I'm not sure if getting the Guardian FSD booster counts as engineering, but I had a go at it yesterday evening and had an absolute blast! Failed the first attempt as a sentinel managed to turn me upside down and wedged between two columns and by the time I had extricated myself, still under fire from the sentinel, the timer had expired. It was just as well I had a ship with a point defence turret parked close to the ruins or I would have been toast from the missiles.

The second attempt I managed to complete with about 20% hull left on my SRV and scrambled to get back to my ship, again under fire.

The third attempt was much better but I still returned to the ship with 80% hull left but not under fire this time. I had to leave many Guardian materials behind as they were inaccessible to my meagre collecting skills. On the top of walls or between two closely placed rocks.

But I had so much fun that I think I'll go back again sometime this weekend as I still need more Guardian Technology materials to get a second booster.

So, a resounding YES to the OP question (again).

 

[Flin]

I'm not sure if getting the Guardian FSD booster counts as engineering, but I had a go at it yesterday evening and had an absolute blast! Failed the first attempt as a sentinel managed to turn me upside down and wedged between two columns and by the time I had extricated myself, still under fire from the sentinel, the timer had expired. It was just as well I had a ship with a point defence turret parked close to the ruins or I would have been toast from the missiles.

The second attempt I managed to complete with about 20% hull left on my SRV and scrambled to get back to my ship, again under fire.

The third attempt was much better but I still returned to the ship with 80% hull left but not under fire this time. I had to leave many Guardian materials behind as they were inaccessible to my meagre collecting skills. On the top of walls or between two closely placed rocks.

But I had so much fun that I think I'll go back again sometime this weekend as I still need more Guardian Technology materials to get a second booster.

So, a resounding YES to the OP question (again).

Mark, feel free to go and get materials for other Guardian modules. Once you unlock the FSD booster, you can purchase as many as you want.

 

[OBYOZ]

Dont mind a bit of engineering but not a full time job.

Why are so many items needed..

Just an example of an alternative system, with no rolls, showing levels of unlock per grades 1 - 5 of the rare items required.

L1 = (5 x grade 1)

L2 = (5 x grade 1) + (4 x grade 2)

L3 = (5 x grade 1) + (4 x grade 2) + (3 x grade 3)

L4 = (5 x grade 1) + (4 x grade 2) + (3 x grade 3) + (2 x grade 2)

L5 = (5 x grade 1) + (4 x grade 2) + (3 x grade 3) + (2 x grade 2) + (1 x grade 1)

Experimentals 5 x grade 5.

Instead we have hundreds and hundreds of "very rare grades" which make them not so rare and valuable, majority of people relogging all morning to get them, pretty ridiculous.

 

[MarkAusten]

Mark, feel free to go and get materials for other Guardian modules. Once you unlock the FSD booster, you can purchase as many as you want.

Well, hell!

You learn something new every day. Thanks for that.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

Well, hell!

You learn something new every day. Thanks for that.

Yes, don't confuse Guardians with Wizards. I actually enjoyed getting the FSD booster. Had to do a bit of head voodoo but not too much.