Why is Combat still a Low Paying High-Risk activity?

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The problem has always been at the higher level, there is very little concept of risk vs. rewards its mostly about knowledge and time investment.

To my knowledge this only ever happened once (when Thargoids first got released) but then it got nerfed or "fixed" depending on your PoV

 

[Julio Montega]

The problem has always been at the higher level, there is very little concept of risk vs. rewards its mostly about knowledge and time investment.

To my knowledge this only ever happened once (when Thargoids first got released) but then it got nerfed or "fixed" depending on your PoV

When Npcs got a brain that was dangerous, thargoids are artificial difficulty locked behind the special equipment. Same with scenario specific npcs that can tank more than any engineered player could.
Requiring just more damage to kill something is not difficult just tedious.

 

[Sterling MH]

The problem has always been at the higher level, there is very little concept of risk vs. rewards its mostly about knowledge and time investment.

To my knowledge this only ever happened once (when Thargoids first got released) but then it got nerfed or "fixed" depending on your PoV

See, I could see a big furball as "rewarding", however, it would require mostly NPCs, mostly EASY NPCs and very few players (so it isn't laggy). Lots of dogfighting IS fun in a way a one-on-one battle isn't. But the biggest problem I see for big battles is the radar. It's fine up to a half dozen things in range, but when there's a score of things, whether rocks, containers or ships, it is too cluttered for you to make things out. Especially where your current target is or where the fire is coming from. The former is hidden with the massive clutter and the latter isn't even indicated at all on the radar. At least some reticle for "The target is in this direction, offscreen" would be a help. Some way to declutter the radar when in dogfight mode too. Marking what is targeted by turrets too, for the bigger ships. There's a lot that could be improved, though many of them would require more buttons to enact them, which kinda sucks for console users.

 

[Stealthie]

So, in summary; Combat in ED shouldn't be espcially well-rewarded cos it's only a video game and there's no real risk?

[wacky][wacky][wacky]

 

[Sterling MH]

So, in summary; Combat in ED shouldn't be espcially well-rewarded

This is what I mean by people looking at a bridge and calling it a wall...

Nobody says it should not be *rewarding*. Just that you don't need credits. Indeed a lack of credits increases the diversity of ships flown by players in the game. So, unless you LIKE a 20minute TTK that ends 18 minutes in because they left the instance, you should find being "forced" to play trader for a bit ends up meaning more REWARDING play when you're in a combat situation.

We're also pointing out that it's not risky either.

So if risk vs reward were closely correlated or even the same thing, then combat should not be rewarded. After all, you only take on risk as much as you decide. And if you don't find the reward enough for the risk, choose less risk.

 

[Stealthie]

This is what I mean by people looking at a bridge and calling it a wall...

Nobody says it should not be *rewarding*. Just that you don't need credits. Indeed a lack of credits increases the diversity of ships flown by players in the game. So, unless you LIKE a 20minute TTK that ends 18 minutes in because they left the instance, you should find being "forced" to play trader for a bit ends up meaning more REWARDING play when you're in a combat situation.

We're also pointing out that it's not risky either.

So if risk vs reward were closely correlated or even the same thing, then combat should not be rewarded. After all, you only take on risk as much as you decide. And if you don't find the reward enough for the risk, choose less risk.

That's what I thought.

You're asserting a fallacy commonly referred to as an "argument to moderation".

If I think 2+2 equals 4 and you insist 2+2 equals 10 then perhaps 2+2 really equals 7 and my refusal to compromise makes me stubborn.
Of course, If we do compromise and agree that 2+2 equals 7, we're both actually wrong but you've succeeded in moving the acceptable answer further away from reality and toward your desired goal.
And then, if we go for round 2 and I insist 2+2 equals 7 and you, once again, insist it equals 10 then we compromise on 8.5 and we move even further from reality and toward your goal.

Which is why it's a very bad thing.


But anyway....

In a game, where any risk or reward can only be defined in terms of the game-environment, surely the only useful measure of "risk" and "reward" is in comparison to other activities within the game?

 

[DukeIronHand]

Combat, a high risk activity in these days of a song of hitpoints and replenishment?

And LW/HW’ing.

 

[dhyran]

well,

i traded tons of stuff, and invested over 200 mil just for a Krait II to defend the bubble. Belonging to the time you have to spend, the financial outcome figthing thargoids is a bad joke.
Everyone is currently on the mining trip, where ppl gets a billion in 6 hours. at the same time you might kill 100 scouts for 1-2 million and with some good chaps, some bigger thagoids on top, lets say for about 14 mil.

anyhow, its big fun, but the Pilot Federation should RAISE the payments massily (factor 25), otherwise the bubble will be lost soon

cheers

 

[Julio Montega]

well,

i traded tons of stuff, and invested over 200 mil just for a Krait II to defend the bubble. Belonging to the time you have to spend, the financial outcome figthing thargoids is a bad joke.
Everyone is currently on the mining trip, where ppl gets a billion in 6 hours. at the same time you might kill 100 scouts for 1-2 million and with some good chaps, some bigger thagoids on top, lets say for about 14 mil.

anyhow, its big fun, but the Pilot Federation should RAISE the payments massily (factor 25), otherwise the bubble will be lost soon

cheers

Or the BGS will handle that and increase pay as more and more systems burn.

 

[[VR] Goooost]

I'm glad I got in on the massacre mission stacking when I did. Conflict zones are a total bust in this update. Literally not worth doing. The enemies are bullet sponges, the scenarios pay nothing, the fighting ends right when you've finally shifted the odds in your favor, you dont gain any rep with the faction you're fighting for, and they got rid of massacre missions completely. I just "won" four high intensity zones and have about 4 mil to show for it, 2% combat increase and 0 rep. I'm done with that. Fix your combat.
Compare this to the 4 mil I got from a third the time spent In a haz res. Those enemies were paper. I literally just had my limpets out the whole time gathering their scraps up. Why, fdev? You guys said you'd introduce "terrorist" ai who fight anyone regardless of cargo, yet I can still just pick and choose my fights. They should at least be able to tell I'm a bounty hunter at this point.

 

[Urbanski101]

Yeah I have to agree combat is not great atm.

For me it's the nature of the combat in ED rather than credits earned...against NPCs it's just farming...whether in a CZ or a Res site....it's just farming and it's fairly boring.

Bounty hunting is really bounty farming.

It also makes v.little sense. The criminals jump into an area where they know security forces and bounty hunters are...it's just daft but without a major reworking of a large part of the game I can't really see a solution.

Risk v reward is however not the issue for me although I do get the reasons why people say this. Taking a real world example....soldiers don't get paid very much for the job they do and the risks they take compared to a banker or stock market trader, but then again this is a game so that probably doesn't count and there is a need to balance the various activities in terms of earning potential.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

I'm in a really bad mood today and couldn't be bothered to read your post, so I do apologise in advance for that. I did just want to say though (based on the title) that massacre missions now pay superbly well and have never been easier to complete.

9m for 16 ships is a common occurrence and quite reasonable I feel.

Massacre missions are okay, but in general combat pays badly. Combat zones and non-human signal sources are chronic.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

PEOPLE: Combat doesn't pay well
US: Except for massacre missions, and wing missions, and hazres farming, where you can make billions in a day
PEOPLE: Apart from those

 

[Vandaahl]

Heh, reminds me of:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Yeah I have to agree combat is not great atm.

For me it's the nature of the combat in ED...against NPCs it's just farming...whether in a CZ or a Res site....it's just farming and it's fairly boring.

Bounty hunting is really bounty farming.

It also makes v.little sense. The criminals jump into an area where they know security forces and bounty hunters are...it's just daft but without a major reworking of a large part of the game I can't really see a solution.

Risk v reward is however not the issue for me although I do get the reasons why people say this. Taking a real world example....soldiers don't get paid very much for the job they do and the risks they take compared to a banker or stock market trader, but then again this is a game so that probably doesn't count and there is a need to balance the various activities in terms of earning potential.

Of course it's boring and repetitive and makes absolutely no sense. This is Elite Dangerous. What on earth do you think you were signing up for?

 

[DeletedUser191218]

PEOPLE: Combat doesn't pay well
US: Except for massacre missions, and wing missions, and hazres farming, where you can make billions in a day
PEOPLE: Apart from those

Billions in a day by res farming? Are you playing all day, every day.
Combat is badly paid and incommensurate to risk. People make a fortune from looking at stuff that can't kill you, but a military combat ship pays 30k to destroy? Seems daft to me.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

Billions in a day by res farming? Are you playing all day, every day.
Combat is badly paid and incommensurate to risk. People make a fortune from looking at stuff that can't kill you, but a military combat ship pays 30k to destroy? Seems daft to me.

No, this was for a week, at most 5 hours in one day, usually about 2-3. All from combat.

Now I'll never need to "work" in this game ever again, and thank Christ for that.

But do keep telling yourself you're underpaid and there's nothing you can do about it.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

No, this was for a week, at most 5 hours in one day, usually about 2-3. All from combat.

Now I'll never need to "work" in this game ever again, and thank Christ for that.



But do keep telling yourself you're underpaid and there's nothing you can do about it.

You can't make billions in a day. Average in a haz res is maybe 120k per bounty (That's being VERY optimistic). 1 billion credits in 5 hours would equate to about 28 bounties a minute. I think you're being economical with the truth.

 

[Deadlock-3000]

You can't make billions in a day. Average in a haz res is maybe 120k per bounty (That's being VERY optimistic). 1 billion credits in 5 hours would equate to about 28 bounties a minute. I think you're being economical with the truth.

Oh, well, if you're going to call me a liar, you can carry it doing it wrong forever then. Have fun with that.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Oh, well, if you're going to call me a liar, you can carry it doing it wrong forever then. Have fun with that.

I simply performed a basic calculation based on your claim. If you're making a billion credits (and you claimed you make multiple billions) in 5 hours it works out around 28 kills per minute (one every 2 seconds). I think it's difficult to conclude anything other than the fact this clearly isn't possible.

Either your claim is grossly untrue or my calculations are wrong. How many kills do you reckon you do in a minute and what would you say the average bounty is? Then multiply this by 60 and then by 5 again. Tell us all what number you get.

Actually - someone from fdev could advise the spawn rate in a haz res on a probability weighted average of bounties. Then we can estimate what hourly yield could potentially be.