Fleet Carriers - How do you want them balanced?
- Thread starter Blightedmythos
- Start date
My pipe-dreams:
basic functunality: docking, rearm, repair, refuel
advanced functunality: module and cargo storage for squadron members; Com Beacon emitting cross-platform messages from the Squadron Leaderboard; leave messages for Squadron
Upgrades: Turrets, Shields ...
* Deploy and Retreat: There needs to be a mechanic how to deploy a fleet carrier into a system and how other commanders can force it to retreat from that system.
* Powerplay: Register your fleet carrier with a power and make it a mobile Control System where you can redeem combat merits.
* Combat Zones: Deploy your fleet carrier right into a combat-zone for resupply and massive mass lock. Of course enemy can force the carrier to retreat
and a lot more
basic functunality: docking, rearm, repair, refuel
advanced functunality: module and cargo storage for squadron members; Com Beacon emitting cross-platform messages from the Squadron Leaderboard; leave messages for Squadron
Upgrades: Turrets, Shields ...
* Deploy and Retreat: There needs to be a mechanic how to deploy a fleet carrier into a system and how other commanders can force it to retreat from that system.
* Powerplay: Register your fleet carrier with a power and make it a mobile Control System where you can redeem combat merits.
* Combat Zones: Deploy your fleet carrier right into a combat-zone for resupply and massive mass lock. Of course enemy can force the carrier to retreat
and a lot more
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I'm thinking setting up in and claiming an uninhabited system. Especially for miners.
We don't know yet if the fleet carriers will have mission boards.
I am still curious on how FD is going to work out a way for a group of players, i.e. the Squadron can pool credits to buy the carrier. Who will have ultimate control over the funds, does one person have the final say on what is purchased with the Squadron's funds, what happens if someone who has contributed to the purchase of the carrier leaves the Squadron or is kicked out, in other words do they get their credits back?
Trade carrier
Can park near a station and fleet can move cheap item to the carrier then when at maximum load carrier moves to selling system and parks near station buying at high price and fleet unloads.
Mining carrier.
Parks at planet with hot spot ring fleet set about mining then offload to carrier repeat until full and the move to system with station buying high and fleet unloads.
Military carrier.
Parks at war zone fleet enters does battle then reloads and repairs and repeat.
Explorer carrier.
Moves to system unexplored fleet departs and explores nearby systems and returns to store data on carrier then when exploration trip finishes carrier returns to bubble and hands in data for and fleet payout.
Carriers need Special fuel that requires materials only found on planet surfaces which is mixed with normal fuel to synthesize fleet carrier fuel.
Carriers can store modules /weapons /fuel/ammo.
Carriers can be destroyed.
Fleets must be registered before a carrier can be purchased , 20 cmdrs crew before it can be moved, minimum 50 to buy one.
NPCs count as crew? Don't know.
Just spitballing but think it might be something like this.
Can park near a station and fleet can move cheap item to the carrier then when at maximum load carrier moves to selling system and parks near station buying at high price and fleet unloads.
Mining carrier.
Parks at planet with hot spot ring fleet set about mining then offload to carrier repeat until full and the move to system with station buying high and fleet unloads.
Military carrier.
Parks at war zone fleet enters does battle then reloads and repairs and repeat.
Explorer carrier.
Moves to system unexplored fleet departs and explores nearby systems and returns to store data on carrier then when exploration trip finishes carrier returns to bubble and hands in data for and fleet payout.
Carriers need Special fuel that requires materials only found on planet surfaces which is mixed with normal fuel to synthesize fleet carrier fuel.
Carriers can store modules /weapons /fuel/ammo.
Carriers can be destroyed.
Fleets must be registered before a carrier can be purchased , 20 cmdrs crew before it can be moved, minimum 50 to buy one.
NPCs count as crew? Don't know.
Just spitballing but think it might be something like this.
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I like most of this but I think solo ownership should be possible. If you're saying minimum 50 people to buy one, that means that up to 49 people won't get to experience the gameplay of owning one. If someone wants to be a super rich recluse I think they should have that option.
It would mean that nearly everyone could maybe interact with one, but being a key member of a squadron that large is difficult for a lot of people. Most people would be left out of that gameplay.
Probably it could be done as most things are done in ED, by raising contesting PvE bars...
The fleet carrier will be forced to retreat if some recon-limpet event is triggerd often enough in a given time-frame for example. The carrier could be protected by autmated turret defense, maybe even some AI-fighters.
The carriers squadron could raise the bars by delivering an amount of materials and ammo to the carrier to raise it's staying power.
The system it retreats to could be set by the owning faction. If the fleetcarrier is forced to return to the retreat point, it would sit in a "safe" instance and only retain basic docking functionality.
I don't know, just some thoughts. I admit I don't believe Frontier will implement Carriers in such a way really, but who knows.
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This ^
Yeah...most people are so naive, I also think that it will be something like a megaship with the "move here" button maybe with some upgrades for " module capacity" or something.. i think there will be NO cargo storage cuz "players will be trade for real money"
Anyway waiting for some news..
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This thing about solo players not being able to own one, Nothing like not letting players play the game they want even if does not affect you one bit. GAWD, If some solo players wants to bust his butt so he can own one what would it it matter to you whose suggest he does not deserve one. A 50 player Squadron can buy one and then the squad leader boots everyone out, he is golden but some poor slob who has dreams.
Why is it that so many players care about how another player plays his game when it does not affect you in the slightest. If the price is 25B and I got the cash and am willing to spend putting 10 hours a day in the game for the upkeep would that bother anyone even a little bit.
Just let me know if I should wipe my bio disposal unit from front to back or vice versa and would it be better to fold my paper or ball it up. This would impact on you just as much if I owned one of these ships. I know lets make them open only it just a matter of time before that cry starts.
Playing the game my way
Caliber
Why is it that so many players care about how another player plays his game when it does not affect you in the slightest. If the price is 25B and I got the cash and am willing to spend putting 10 hours a day in the game for the upkeep would that bother anyone even a little bit.
Just let me know if I should wipe my bio disposal unit from front to back or vice versa and would it be better to fold my paper or ball it up. This would impact on you just as much if I owned one of these ships. I know lets make them open only it just a matter of time before that cry starts.
Playing the game my way
Caliber
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I'd rather not see them at all.
To my mind they will either be a total non event, just like another station you can put somewhere or a griefers best Christmas present.
To my mind they will either be a total non event, just like another station you can put somewhere or a griefers best Christmas present.
Any attempt to ban individual players from ovning Carriers is doomed. We will join each other's squadrons to meet any minimum-number requirement, then leave. Console players can create new accounts at no cost, and will create as many as they need. It's a completely pointless limit anyway, no need for it.
Losts of different people have lots of different ideas about how to use Carriers, and that's a good thing. Many of those ideas won't require any real effort to implement once Carriers go live, they will be as versatile as the ships they carry.
One thing that does seem fairly consistent is that an initial price-tag of 1bn credits for a basic Carrier (capable of carrying a few Small-pad ships) seems popular. It should then be possible to upgrade from there.
I suspect instancing problems might have delayed Carriers (which is annoying for those of us who want single-owner Carriers, as these won't cause instancing problems). But as I've said before, there is no reason to keep a Carrier in an instance if no members of the owning squadron are in that instance: if should "retreat into hyperspace" and disappear, like a ship dismissed from an SRV, no need to keep unattended carriers littering the galaxy.
Losts of different people have lots of different ideas about how to use Carriers, and that's a good thing. Many of those ideas won't require any real effort to implement once Carriers go live, they will be as versatile as the ships they carry.
One thing that does seem fairly consistent is that an initial price-tag of 1bn credits for a basic Carrier (capable of carrying a few Small-pad ships) seems popular. It should then be possible to upgrade from there.
I suspect instancing problems might have delayed Carriers (which is annoying for those of us who want single-owner Carriers, as these won't cause instancing problems). But as I've said before, there is no reason to keep a Carrier in an instance if no members of the owning squadron are in that instance: if should "retreat into hyperspace" and disappear, like a ship dismissed from an SRV, no need to keep unattended carriers littering the galaxy.
I think their impact on the galaxy and game needs to be pretty passive.
They should probably be unarmed and invulnerable, to stop people from trying to use them as weapons platforms, but equally stop people trolling for offline players and blowing up their ships.
I like the ideas stated here previously of being a focused craft/mini game for a squadron. You need to start off with a small one which can be purchased outright (as money if the only thing players can horde in any quantity). But after that you can donate resources, credits, bounties, warrants to the carrier which can then be exchanged for an upgraded ship. It would be good if they could figure out the multiple ships per landing pad thing, and make it more like a carrier from Wing Commander, multiple ships can enter and exit one at a time into the carrier.
At some point, you have to go from upgrading your ship to replacing it, with various sizes/levels available. e.g. the starter one can only take a small number of small ships, with the one that takes a massive squadron an obscene amount of time taking a fully array of ship sizes with a sizeable quantity of storage.
Whilst a fully upgraded carrier could refuel and repair you, you could only outfit equipment you've brought over. I thought about equipment sharing, but that's a back door to quick money transfer.
I agree with others on the jumps, it shouldn't be something that can rattle around the galaxy - I think they've already said it's on the server tick. Range needs to sit between the top range of a conda and below a megaship.
The ships should deteriorate through use, not through time. That way small squadrons of casual players can still enjoy them without them decaying after a week of inactivity etc. Repairs should be able to be done with mined materials etc., as I imagine some people will up sticks and move their ship to the middle of nowhere to avoid contact with other players.
Whilst themselves they should be safe havens, they should be easily found by other players. So if you decide to sit in your safe haven you can become blockaded by other players reasonably easily (can always get out in private if it's that important to avoid fighting your way out).
There should be something to tie in with crime and punishment. You can't have a hostile force sitting immune in a system (e.g. for power play, or just a PvP base in community goal ganking). There has to be some way for the system authority to remove the ship by force outside of the tick, if it's a source of crime (system type impacting the type of response etc).
I'm not sure, at this point, that they should be used as trading vessels. You can donate stuff to the ship permanently for being used in upgrades, but you can't retrieve them. So no buying out an entire station of stock with one etc. There should be no way to retrieve investments back. They also can't be powerful enough to give a group of organised players an unbreakable advantage over individual commanders (as Elite is all about independent pilots).
They should probably be unarmed and invulnerable, to stop people from trying to use them as weapons platforms, but equally stop people trolling for offline players and blowing up their ships.
I like the ideas stated here previously of being a focused craft/mini game for a squadron. You need to start off with a small one which can be purchased outright (as money if the only thing players can horde in any quantity). But after that you can donate resources, credits, bounties, warrants to the carrier which can then be exchanged for an upgraded ship. It would be good if they could figure out the multiple ships per landing pad thing, and make it more like a carrier from Wing Commander, multiple ships can enter and exit one at a time into the carrier.
At some point, you have to go from upgrading your ship to replacing it, with various sizes/levels available. e.g. the starter one can only take a small number of small ships, with the one that takes a massive squadron an obscene amount of time taking a fully array of ship sizes with a sizeable quantity of storage.
Whilst a fully upgraded carrier could refuel and repair you, you could only outfit equipment you've brought over. I thought about equipment sharing, but that's a back door to quick money transfer.
I agree with others on the jumps, it shouldn't be something that can rattle around the galaxy - I think they've already said it's on the server tick. Range needs to sit between the top range of a conda and below a megaship.
The ships should deteriorate through use, not through time. That way small squadrons of casual players can still enjoy them without them decaying after a week of inactivity etc. Repairs should be able to be done with mined materials etc., as I imagine some people will up sticks and move their ship to the middle of nowhere to avoid contact with other players.
Whilst themselves they should be safe havens, they should be easily found by other players. So if you decide to sit in your safe haven you can become blockaded by other players reasonably easily (can always get out in private if it's that important to avoid fighting your way out).
There should be something to tie in with crime and punishment. You can't have a hostile force sitting immune in a system (e.g. for power play, or just a PvP base in community goal ganking). There has to be some way for the system authority to remove the ship by force outside of the tick, if it's a source of crime (system type impacting the type of response etc).
I'm not sure, at this point, that they should be used as trading vessels. You can donate stuff to the ship permanently for being used in upgrades, but you can't retrieve them. So no buying out an entire station of stock with one etc. There should be no way to retrieve investments back. They also can't be powerful enough to give a group of organised players an unbreakable advantage over individual commanders (as Elite is all about independent pilots).
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Indeed - even if there is a significant credit cost to attain a basic Carrier, I'd also expect some of the more affluent CMDRs to be quite prepared to fund one for a Squadron.
Not that I disagree with the desire for single-owner carriers, but if Frontier don’t want single-owner carriers it’s not hard to prevent this.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Single CMDR owner or single player owner?
Once you land the carrier systems disable all your engineered meta for as long as you stay. Is my suggestion.
And restrict carrier being attackable only by other carriers.
If I pay real money for the game and the DLC I better be able to buy a solo fleet carrier. FD stands to only lose money if solo players can’t buy one IMO. What’s it to you if a solo player has one? Does it change anything about the way you play?
Well, they've promised that "all modes will be treated equally", so I think it would be a bit difficult to keep that promise if I can't have a Carrier in Solo mode...
They could be deliberately obstructive by not providing any means for a single CMDR to put more than one ship at a time on the Carrier. That is the case with existing carriers such as the Gnosis: no shipyard, hence no ship-transfer facility. But given that the Gnosis supports module transfer, there is no technical reason why it couldn't also support ship transfer. They'd have to be deliberately and obviously obnoxious to not put that in, especially as it would incovenience multi-player owners too (if you're the guy who had the job of running the resupply freighter, you won't be allowed to put your pewpew ship on the Carrier too).
Arguably, single players with multiple ships need Carriers more than groups with one ship each do, because we can only fly one ship at a time (and therefore have to faff about with ship transfers, and that assumes we can actually find a nearby station with a shipyard): a group's ships can all jump together without a Carrier.
They could be deliberately obstructive by not providing any means for a single CMDR to put more than one ship at a time on the Carrier. That is the case with existing carriers such as the Gnosis: no shipyard, hence no ship-transfer facility. But given that the Gnosis supports module transfer, there is no technical reason why it couldn't also support ship transfer. They'd have to be deliberately and obviously obnoxious to not put that in, especially as it would incovenience multi-player owners too (if you're the guy who had the job of running the resupply freighter, you won't be allowed to put your pewpew ship on the Carrier too).
Arguably, single players with multiple ships need Carriers more than groups with one ship each do, because we can only fly one ship at a time (and therefore have to faff about with ship transfers, and that assumes we can actually find a nearby station with a shipyard): a group's ships can all jump together without a Carrier.