Fleet Carriers - How do you want them balanced?

Personally I fail to see the point of fleet carriers. I'd much rather see players factions/guilds be able to build their own planetary bases but anyway...

Well, its a bit hard to see a point until we know how FD are planning on implementing them ;)

But regarding planetary bases, they might come in the future, but i see less point in them. After all, they are simply static bases which exist already and you can dock wherever you want and call it home, and little point in setting up a home somewhere far outside the bubble. With fleet carriers (depending on how they are implemented) could be a home away from home.
 
In a private group I could dock my ship and a buddies and use the increased jump range to get to activities quicker.

Solo you could jump into a conflict zone and use it to rearm or refit, making ammo based builds more viable. It could also provide support.

Mining solo it could store ore for you. Also provide fire support. Lots of applications honestly.

A space station isn't exactly a carrier. They usually dont move neither.
 
A space station isn't exactly a carrier. They usually dont move neither.

Ah contraire, the stations are moving quite fast! Remember nearly all are in an orbit around the planet and we all know the planets are orbiting the star …..

Yes I am being picky but I know you can take it as well :D
 
my 2 credits worth:


  • 3 flavours of carrier - Utility, Strategic and Command.
  • Utility - 3 Large ship hangers, not armed, jump range limited to, say 30ly or so (upgradeable via engineering). Module space for refinery (for fuel), repair function and data storage. Requires 6 active NPC crew members. Cost est: 500,000,000 credits for base model, 1,500,000 credits per month for maintenance.
  • Strategic - 14 large ship hangers. Not armed. Same utility as previous but with extra module slots for rearming and module-sharing between squadron members. Requires Squadron of minimum 10 members. Jump range 40 ish, upgradable. Requires 14 active NPC crew. Cost: 2,000,000,000 credits for base model, 5,000,000 credits per month for maintenance costs.
  • Command - Squadron leader to be highest military rank in faction. 20 Large, 30 Medium ship hangers. Modules same as previous, also full station services (depending on special NPC hire) (within reason of course). Requires 50+ Squadron members. NPC requirement: 50 standard, and special NPC's for contacts, trading etc, hire rates should be very high per month. Cost of ship: 50,000,000,000, with up to 100,000,000 credits per month maintenance. Upgradable with carrier defences (flak, point defence) Jump range dependant on load and upgrade - base about 20ly.
  • Carriers can jump only when sufficient fuel available. Depending on FSD upgrade, and class, multiple jumps possible before extensive cooldown.
  • Carriers can not enter local space with a station.

Thats just a basic idea for now, but it gives an idea how I perceive them to exist.
 
Honestly just keep it minimal, like your basic guild-hall mechanic. The kind that whenever you walk through the door in the town it takes you to your guildhall instance. Anything more than that, like using it as a mobile battle-platform, or target to attack while the squadron members are offline, is honestly getting into something that suits Eve better than it does Elite. Just have it a location you can park at, refuel, restock, repair, access outfitting (but only stored modules) and maybe local contacts for whatever system the ship is present in for cashing bounties/bonds and the like. No commodities market or mission board. Otherwise, it's just a megaship PoI that only shows up to members of the appropriate squadron, in any mode. Non-squadron members would maybe be able to get into the instance with it if they pulled some trickery like winging up with a squadron member and dropping on their beacon, sure, but they would be denied docking permission and there's not really any other reason for them to be hanging around.

It'd be interesting to have the availability of refuel/repair/restock limited by supplies rather than credits, with a "deliver supplies" button in place of the commodities market. Need fuel? Sure, you can refuel at the carrier, but that fuel's got to come from somewhere, whether it's someone bringing in canisters of hydrogen fuel or by donating from their own tank. Exploration squadrons may well have someone bring a cutter or T9 loaded with 600t of fuel tanks and a scoop.
Want to repair? Sure, but you'll need parts. The carrier's supply of parts for various things requires deliveries of commodities, or combinations thereof. Same with munitions, you'll need metals and explosives and so forth.

Maybe the squadron leaders will want to have standard credit costs for these services just to discourage members from taking the mick with their supplies, with the funds going into the squadron assets to buy upgrades to the carrier. Maybe they'll want to reimburse members for supplying the carrier - deliver appropriate commodities to get reimbursed at galactic average rates. Maybe upgrades could be things like onboard manufacturing facilities that allow them to replenish their stock from a broader category of things working their way up to becoming totally self-sufficient from mining alone, or start stocking the outfitting screen. (outfitting's actual stock, again, could be made dependent upon commodity donations)

There's lots that could be done to make carriers great without focusing on "how can I use this for pewpew".
 
Carriers should not just be for squadrons. It is not a guild hall because you're not leaving your ship anytime soon...
 
my 2 credits worth:


  • 3 flavours of carrier - Utility, Strategic and Command.
  • Utility - 3 Large ship hangers, not armed, jump range limited to, say 30ly or so (upgradeable via engineering). Module space for refinery (for fuel), repair function and data storage. Requires 6 active NPC crew members. Cost est: 500,000,000 credits for base model, 1,500,000 credits per month for maintenance.
  • Strategic - 14 large ship hangers. Not armed. Same utility as previous but with extra module slots for rearming and module-sharing between squadron members. Requires Squadron of minimum 10 members. Jump range 40 ish, upgradable. Requires 14 active NPC crew. Cost: 2,000,000,000 credits for base model, 5,000,000 credits per month for maintenance costs.
  • Command - Squadron leader to be highest military rank in faction. 20 Large, 30 Medium ship hangers. Modules same as previous, also full station services (depending on special NPC hire) (within reason of course). Requires 50+ Squadron members. NPC requirement: 50 standard, and special NPC's for contacts, trading etc, hire rates should be very high per month. Cost of ship: 50,000,000,000, with up to 100,000,000 credits per month maintenance. Upgradable with carrier defences (flak, point defence) Jump range dependant on load and upgrade - base about 20ly.
  • Carriers can jump only when sufficient fuel available. Depending on FSD upgrade, and class, multiple jumps possible before extensive cooldown.
  • Carriers can not enter local space with a station.

Thats just a basic idea for now, but it gives an idea how I perceive them to exist.

Still not sure why your pushing minimum squadron members. It seems like everyone is out to exclude solo players from playing how they want. If a squadron loses a couple of Commanders and drops below minimum do they lose the carrier? Also your Faction rank requirement, not sure how that works but if they change factions?

I would like the carriers to have 10X the jump range you suggested, they are huge ships and should be able to make huge jumps. I would assume this would require a crazy amount of fuel and maybe only be able to jump once every 7 days or so.

The universe is big enough for us all.
Caliber
 
I recall someone mentioning that a squadron won't be disbanded until the last person leaves. and that's when the squadron's carrier would be lost. Until then, it would be a bit inconvenient if the squadron still has the carrier but can't make it jump! So probably reasonable to assume that only 4 posts need to be filled (CMDR and 3 NPC copilots), or you might just have to leave it sitting somewhere until the next ED sale when you can buy enough alt accounts to get it moving (unless you're on console).
 

Deleted member 110222

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Carriers should not just be for squadrons. It is not a guild hall because you're not leaving your ship anytime soon...

That's why I was suggesting it as a mobile resupply base that you could stock with (potentially) more commodities that any individual ship could carry. Even a single player would have a use for that if they wanted to truck out to, say, the guardian sites and have somewhere they could pick up a lost SRV without having to fly all the way back to the bubble - provided they stocked the carrier with enough parts to make some SRV restocks before they left.
 
I’d rather they not be obscenely expensive, mobile war platforms to simply sink credits into endlessly. Expensive, sure, but not the hundreds of billions I've seen more than a few people demanding. That's just silly.

As for any sort of balancing - it seems unlikely these things will be super cruising about anyways. I suspect they will be(have like) other megaships, with largely static positions in systems. Given that their purpose is to haul other ships, not serve as mobile blockades, I don't see a need for them to have any manner of armament at all. It's not like we can blow up megaships in the first place - we can't even blow up Capital Ships.

If they're only usable by those players "assigned" to it, then any other docking requests would simply be denied. No need for loitering fines, and trespassing can be dealt with by the ships aboard or belonging to the carrier.

As for their jump range, I would expect these not to use a standard frame shift jump, but something more like the hyperspace drives of Capital Ships. A destination is selected, and once engaged, it rolls off into the black fog and is gone.

Since this is not, nor should ever become Eve, there's no need for these to be battle platforms, just simple carriers. Sure, they could be used as a staging area for combat fleets, but that's really all they should be doing. They will also need to be available in all modes of play. Though that does raise some interesting questions as well - like how could a Solo commander dock more than one ship on a carrier? Ship transfer seems reasonable enough.

As for what sorts of facilities they would have? Refuel, Rearm, Repair, Shipyard and Livery, but no ships for sale, just transfer and exchange. Outfitting to allow for role-changes, and Helm operations to select and initiate a hyperspace jump.

I also agree, fuel for these should be non-standard. something that would need to be collected by the smaller craft onboard, but shouldn't be annoying either.
 
IndigoWyrd: Good point about the hyperdrive, there isn't actually any reason to suppose that a Carrier would have a "jumprange" at all.

We don't know much about how megaships move (except that hyperspace becomes strangely permeable once every 7 days, ahem). We know that the Gnosis has a range of 500ly, and that Jacques attempted to go from the Bubble to Beagle Point in one go (and got as far as Colonia). It has also been claimed that Carriers won't be limited to moving on the server tick.

I'm wondering if a Carrier could cover any distance (given enough fuel), but might be limited to ship transfer speeds? There needs to be a reason why we use FSD's now. Obviously there's a gameplay issue there, because watching a witchspace screen for hours isn't eactly fun. But if the Carrier sets off when those aboard are about to log off and go to bed, it should be manageable. Maybe the squadron leader (or authorised person) could set a timer, so that it sets off at 3am or whatever.

And a trip to Colonia will take about 3 days IIRC. Again, if everyone aboard would prefer to stop playing for 3 days rather than doing all that jumping, so be it. There would also be the option of using an alt account for the Carrier pilot, going there independently in a long-jumping ship, and then using your other ships when the Carrier finally arrives.
 
More pipedreams with that extra-special blend:

I really hope we can take full control of the carriers and also manually fly them, use multicrew inside of them, manage docking rights, activate or deactivate features like repair, restock and refuel and managing ressource consumption this way and some time in the far future walk around inside the carriers interior!

As owner of a carrier I iamgine it like this:

I approach inside my DBE and safely dock in my carrier. I get a welcome message and get prompted if I want to take seat at the bridge of my carrier. Of course I want that. So I am in the spacious cockpit of my fleet-carrier. I decide to go to the docking-rights panel and activate docking rights for all squadron members. I call all commanders from my squadron for the task ahaed to come and dock at the Fleet Carrier and to bring some hydrogen and ammo, to stock up the carriers supplys.

After a few hours a buch of commanders has docked at the carrier and I decide to take off to our target destination.

I set hyperjump coordinates for my target system. Ther carrier jumps. At arrival I navigate the carrier to a combat zone to fight this pesky rivalling faction we are at war with and drop into the zone with the carrier. All my squadron-mates who are still docked can now depart and fight for victory, whilst some dedicated commaders stay back to defend the carrier from enemy fire.
 
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A carrier is a platform for smaller ships. Jump in system carrying your assets. Examples
Power play missions: where the presents of a carrier in system for a specific length of time can generate points towards taking over said system. Upkeep would sq wing missions fending off local resistance or other factions. Spreding propo or aid packs.

Relief missions: jumping in system and launching cargo ships that the sq loaded up in a previous system and rather than go in one at a time getting picked off by FSD Ind. Send the carrier loaded with player ships park and launch.

On the offence if an enemy carrier is trying to undermine your faction jump in and engage them with your sq.

The nature of a carrier by itself is defensive it should be a mobile bade of operations gor the squadron. Its primairy striking power is the squadron stationed on it. However its layered pinpoint defensive abilities should make it to where only other large vessels stand a chace of taking one down and not a sidewinder with a lucky shot.
 
Lots of idea's as to what these ships should be - I'll throw my hat into the ring on this one.

Practically speaking I expect they will act in a fashion similar to mega ships - as such I would expect a few things of them - Jump ranges similar to other mega ships seems relatively harmless and lore friendly however it should require some form of fuel to be collected to enable these jumps. I would also like to see docking to allow for all ship sizes and the capacity to store a very large/unlimited number of vessels in order to properly enable squadrons. You should be able to store modules in the ship to allow for refitting of your ships as needed. I cannot see how these would function in combat and as such would prefer to see them as non-combatants - however they should be able to be seen/visited. There should be a number of scalar upgrades to allow for solo/small squadrons and large squadrons to have goals to reach towards in terms of upgrading their ship. In my eyes the fleet carrier is a massive enabler for squadrons to get out and do things together and should be accessible to small and large squadrons without being prohibitively expensive. Instead of a large upfront price tag I think modular/scale-able upgrades should be considered to suit the needs of the squadron. If carriers are to be the centerpiece to squadrons I would like to see another pass made to wing missions - working together to accomplish things should be one of the major goals of a carrier and the missions are important to this. Perhaps the carriers could provide their own wing missions dependent upon where in the galaxy they are - also chained wing missions associated with upgrades for the ship would be another interesting way of getting a squadron together to accomplish things. These missions should scale with the size of the squadron or in some other way be more inclusive to solo players or small squadrons but perhaps larger squadrons could benefit in some other way. I am of the opinion that carriers should be the embodiment of a squadron and as such should furbish the squadron with a plethora of potential things to work together to accomplish.

von Luck
 
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