Well said. If this is how some of us want to blaze our trail then let it be so.
Fleet Carriers - How do you want them balanced?
- Thread starter Blightedmythos
- Start date
Well said. If this is how some of us want to blaze our trail then let it be so.
Example of Carrier functionality: the Gnosis Incident.
Anticipating possible trouble, I had moved several ships to the Orion Nebula Tourist Centre, the nearest shipyard to the Gnosis. I did this by flying the most expensive one (a Cutter) to the asteroid base, then booking overnight ship transfer for 3 other ships, including my exploration Krait. The following day, I took the Krait to the Gnosis. I was unable to take any other ship, because the Gnosis didn't have a shipyard.
After the misjump, I successfully got my Krait out of there and retreated to the Orion Nebula. I was then running sorties to the Gnosis in various ships (including the Cutter, and a stealth DBX for recon) from 700ly away.
If i had a Carrier, I could have moved several ships to within 1 jump of the Gnosis - assuming the Carrier had a shipyard. Without a shipyard, it wouldn't have mattered to me if it was my own personal Carrier or jointly-owned: EVEN IF I had been part of a 100-player squadron, and EVEN IF my squadron leader had moved it to within range of the Gnosis, I would STILL have only been able to put one ship on it. So I would STILL have been running sorties from 700ly away whenever I wanted to swap ships: and with my squadron's Carrier actually on the scene, that would have been an utterly ridiculous situation.
The ability to store multiple ships per player (and provide repairs etc) is the primary function of a Carrier.
Anticipating possible trouble, I had moved several ships to the Orion Nebula Tourist Centre, the nearest shipyard to the Gnosis. I did this by flying the most expensive one (a Cutter) to the asteroid base, then booking overnight ship transfer for 3 other ships, including my exploration Krait. The following day, I took the Krait to the Gnosis. I was unable to take any other ship, because the Gnosis didn't have a shipyard.
After the misjump, I successfully got my Krait out of there and retreated to the Orion Nebula. I was then running sorties to the Gnosis in various ships (including the Cutter, and a stealth DBX for recon) from 700ly away.
If i had a Carrier, I could have moved several ships to within 1 jump of the Gnosis - assuming the Carrier had a shipyard. Without a shipyard, it wouldn't have mattered to me if it was my own personal Carrier or jointly-owned: EVEN IF I had been part of a 100-player squadron, and EVEN IF my squadron leader had moved it to within range of the Gnosis, I would STILL have only been able to put one ship on it. So I would STILL have been running sorties from 700ly away whenever I wanted to swap ships: and with my squadron's Carrier actually on the scene, that would have been an utterly ridiculous situation.
The ability to store multiple ships per player (and provide repairs etc) is the primary function of a Carrier.
Agreed, sadly this attitude by a vocal minority seems prevalent in the forums which frankly is why I stopped posting as much as I use to.
Frontier I feel has moved away from it's "play as you want" promise and has turned it into "play as you want as long as it's my way" among other things.....
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I just want to be able to fly into the carrier in order to dock. Don't mind pads, but they have to be inside a letterbox 
https://youtu.be/QiVxKyvEceM?t=606
https://youtu.be/QiVxKyvEceM?t=606
Not sure about solo ownership, but if you can grind out the requirements, why not?
Otherwise, what limit to set? 5? 10? 20? 50? 100?
The higher you go, the more groups you would exclude from owning one and the more groups you exclude then the more effort you have put in to please a smaller part of the community.
Our player group has less than 10 players, but we've all been playing from the start and are looking forward to fleet carriers. Would be a shame if we couldn't partake.
One argument that I've seen in use is that it's somehow unreasonable to expect a Carrier to operate without a large crew. Three problems with that:
1. Why is it unreasonable? Modern freighters and oil tankers have small crews (a dozen or so), and even warships now have much smaller crews than they did. Fast-forward a thousand years...
2. It's entirely reasonable to suppose that an anonymous NPC crew is present somewhere on the ship.
3. We're currently allowed to recruit 3 NPC copilots, even though we only ever need one at a time for the SLF (if fitted).
I could imagine that Frontier might insist that 4 crew places are filled before the ship can jump: Command, Pilot, Navigator, Engineer. A single CMDR with 3 copilots could meet that requirement, and the cost of keeping 3 copilots is the "running cost" to use the Carrier.
1. Why is it unreasonable? Modern freighters and oil tankers have small crews (a dozen or so), and even warships now have much smaller crews than they did. Fast-forward a thousand years...
2. It's entirely reasonable to suppose that an anonymous NPC crew is present somewhere on the ship.
3. We're currently allowed to recruit 3 NPC copilots, even though we only ever need one at a time for the SLF (if fitted).
I could imagine that Frontier might insist that 4 crew places are filled before the ship can jump: Command, Pilot, Navigator, Engineer. A single CMDR with 3 copilots could meet that requirement, and the cost of keeping 3 copilots is the "running cost" to use the Carrier.
Personally I fail to see the point of fleet carriers. I'd much rather see players factions/guilds be able to build their own planetary bases but anyway... fleet carriers: limited only to small, or perhaps small and medium ships. No large ships allowed (when I think of things like fleets and squadrons I think of dozen of small ships like x-wing and the fighters, not star destroyers) Require an obscene amount of gathered materials to build one (akin to repairing a space station after a thargoid attack, just on a smaller scale) as well as a sizable credit outlay. Make it so it would be completely unfeasible for a solo commander to just outright buy one. As for moving? Make it have a limited jump range and only jump able once a week or so. Weekly/Monthly maintenance costs involved for the upkeep of such a vessel. Make it so that a true group of dedicated people will share the responsibility of owning one, not just one rich guy who "allows" other people to join his group to use it. If anything fleet carriers should be a play device to "make small ships great again"
Besides I really dont think fleet carriers will ever come, and I'm completely fine with it, though I do hope those who do want them will be satisfied in a fair and balanced way.
That's my 2cr
Besides I really dont think fleet carriers will ever come, and I'm completely fine with it, though I do hope those who do want them will be satisfied in a fair and balanced way.
That's my 2cr
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No idea what purpose they could have, but your suggestions would definetely make them completely useless.
The notion that a Carrier would require "obscene amounts of stuff" (either for construction or for fuel) that can't be bought with credits doesn't really stand up.
For engineering materials, it could be rationalised by saying that the Engineers are the equivalent of modern petrolhead car-customisers, that's why they only use tiny quantities of odds and ends for which there isn't a viable market. All of that changes when you start talking about thousands of tons of stuff: with that much demand, somebody will go into business to mine or manufacture that stuff on an industrial scale. How to explain why these commodities remain mysteriously un-buyable anywhere? Doesn't make sense.
A small basic Carrier (capable of carrying a few Small-pad ships) shouldn't be much bigger than an existing Large-pad ship. And a civilisation that can build the gigantic space structures that we see shouldn't have a problem building such a ship.
For engineering materials, it could be rationalised by saying that the Engineers are the equivalent of modern petrolhead car-customisers, that's why they only use tiny quantities of odds and ends for which there isn't a viable market. All of that changes when you start talking about thousands of tons of stuff: with that much demand, somebody will go into business to mine or manufacture that stuff on an industrial scale. How to explain why these commodities remain mysteriously un-buyable anywhere? Doesn't make sense.
A small basic Carrier (capable of carrying a few Small-pad ships) shouldn't be much bigger than an existing Large-pad ship. And a civilisation that can build the gigantic space structures that we see shouldn't have a problem building such a ship.
I can see another issue with multiple-ownership:
A single player who wants a Carrier will be very motivated. He will do whatever it takes to get one, even if it means spending every spare credit he has. And when he succeeds, it is HIS.
But if you're part of a squadron (and not the leader)... just how much of YOUR money and effort do you want to put in to help somebody else get a Carrier? You just know that you won't have any real say in where it goes or what it does, and you might even get booted from the squadron if you have a falling-out over that, so why bother?
A single player who wants a Carrier will be very motivated. He will do whatever it takes to get one, even if it means spending every spare credit he has. And when he succeeds, it is HIS.
But if you're part of a squadron (and not the leader)... just how much of YOUR money and effort do you want to put in to help somebody else get a Carrier? You just know that you won't have any real say in where it goes or what it does, and you might even get booted from the squadron if you have a falling-out over that, so why bother?
Oh man, I didn't even consider that they could be squardan only with 50+ people required. I really hope they don't do that. A lot of people play solo or private group. I don't see why it would matter.
I really think they should be destroyed but really tanky. Not something a solo ganker could do. I'd love for them to have some combat viable. Even if it's just low damage support and point defense. Your squardan would need to defend them still. If it really is just a moving station that's pretty boring mechanic wise.
I really think they should be destroyed but really tanky. Not something a solo ganker could do. I'd love for them to have some combat viable. Even if it's just low damage support and point defense. Your squardan would need to defend them still. If it really is just a moving station that's pretty boring mechanic wise.
What's the point of a carrier if you play solo? I doubt there will be bots to man the fighter and bomber wings.
But a "moving station" is all that many of us want. I don't need a Carrier for pewpew (except in very unusual circumstances, such as the Gnosis Incident). I'd just like to have a variety of very different ships readily available wherever I go, sort of a spacegoing swiss army knife. In deep space, they could be useful as a base of operations for exploration (the Gnosis has a Universal Cartographics facility onboard for cashing-in exploration data), or for mining (built-in commodities market for selling stuff). These should be possible upgrades.
...Which goes back to the point that many people have many uses for a Carrier.
...Which goes back to the point that many people have many uses for a Carrier.
I think if we do get carriers, it will be, or one of them will be possibly the panther clipper. I've seen the concept art posted before on it, and it sure looks more like a carrier then a mega large cargo ship
In a private group I could dock my ship and a buddies and use the increased jump range to get to activities quicker.
Solo you could jump into a conflict zone and use it to rearm or refit, making ammo based builds more viable. It could also provide support.
Mining solo it could store ore for you. Also provide fire support. Lots of applications honestly.
This, exactly this, exploration oriented carriers would be so damned awesome. A place to group up as you go far far in the black, to refuel, repair etc
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Personally I'm happy for them to cost ten figure sums and require your usual stupidly grindy mass ferrying of materials as fuel for jumps, as long as one condition is met: I make an income from providing services to people even when I'm offline. People buy fuel by docking to my ship, I get the profit. They want repairs, I get the work. I'm happy to compete with others for "orbit rights" or whatever so as to maximise the popularity of services, just as long as there is some faint flicker of an economic situation going on. I want management.
Otherwise it's all just another exercise in grinding towards completion and I am done with that after four years of mindless hoarding in this barren shell of a game.
And if it's squadron only or 50+ players only or whatever, it can go to hell as well.
Otherwise it's all just another exercise in grinding towards completion and I am done with that after four years of mindless hoarding in this barren shell of a game.
And if it's squadron only or 50+ players only or whatever, it can go to hell as well.
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Hopefully this sort of discussion is what Fdev had when pulling the carrier feature
My hope is for a range of carriers to be available , but only 1 per PMF.... so that the small guys can have one and the big guys can have a huge one.
The downside being that the small fleet carrier is way cheaper than a big one, both in terms of initial purchase and running costs.
Then we have the guy who want to blow up someone's fleet carrier..... agin I hope theres a mechanic for that.... emergency jump back to home system or something
Just my 5 pennies worth
Bill
Oh yeah a cheap fleet carrier will cost 10 000 void opals.......
My hope is for a range of carriers to be available , but only 1 per PMF.... so that the small guys can have one and the big guys can have a huge one.
The downside being that the small fleet carrier is way cheaper than a big one, both in terms of initial purchase and running costs.
Then we have the guy who want to blow up someone's fleet carrier..... agin I hope theres a mechanic for that.... emergency jump back to home system or something
Just my 5 pennies worth
Bill
Oh yeah a cheap fleet carrier will cost 10 000 void opals.......
Blackcompany
Banned
Which, if Power Play, RNGIneers, multi crew and the FSS are any indication, is exactly how carriers will go. Provided they ever make it into game at all.