Collection of Ideas for Elite 4
- Thread starter fasnoon
- Start date
Actually that's a good suggestion and I'd like that too - include some ground vehicles that will enable ground exploration on any world. Each spacecraft that you can buy should have the option of purchasing extra vehicles to put in it's hanger bay - I think some special types that can function under water and even act like a submarine would add a lot of depth to the game too ( especially if you can carry out missions in this way ). It's one of the things I liked about the Battlecruiser /Universal Combat series when trying them out. I wonder if technology from Infestation can be re-tooled to enable ground vehicle behavior in Elite IV - wasn't that game a test-bed for Elite IV as well ?
What's with Play.com? Elite IV isn't coming out for years (probably) if ever at all, yet it's there for pre-order. Fifa 09 is coming, definitely, this Autumn and it's 'not currently available for order'. Sort it out, play!
Excellent idea and I really hope Frontier implement it.
Collection of wishes :
-Combat, difficult point, i love flying in the very realistic way with newtonian physics and inertia in the simulation Orbiter (best sapce simulation software ever), i liked it a bit less in FE2 and FFE mostly because of some oddities, but i really and totally hated combat in FE2 and FFE.
Combat were actually the opposite of fun in both games (though it was a bit better than the extremely awfull and horrible ship controls in Elite1 that made combat a pure annoyance).
Either because i felt the AI was absolutely not being influenced by the same physics as me (at nearly full speed, i was always amazed to see it moving around me, slowing down and accelerating while the same moves took me ages while trying to just slow down a bit by turning around and thrusting in the opposite direction), or because at such incredible speed when you are caught in the stardreamer between 2 planets, there is absolutely no fun in dogfighting in those realistic physics.
while i believe such physics would have been nice for battles between capital ships, but fighters and other non-capital ships are no fun with real newtonian physics in space.
There must be a solution to be able to enjoy real physics like in Orbiter (that are even better than the one in FE2 and FFE) during the whole game and have the possibility to "switch" to more "sci-fi-like" ones to be able to really enjoy combat in space like by example Freespace 2 that had the most enjoyable space combat physics despite not realistics of all the space games.
While combat is not the only feature of the Elite serie, when it occurs, i want to enjoy combat in Elite4, not be annoyed by it.
-Being able to either hire more people to join or be hired into AI convoy, flying alone is very dull sometime in FE2 and FFE, it is not very immersive to feel like you are the only ship in the whole universe (without counting those enemy randomly spawned conveniently in your exact path, like if space was small enough for 2 ships to encounter in the middle of nearly infinite nowhere).
While staying alone should always be a valid option, if i want to join or be joined, i should be able to in Elite4.
-More, a lot more interaction with the AI, if attacked, the AI or yourself should be able to ask for help from stations security or from other ships recieving the message.
"Surrender or Die" should then work too, instead of doing nothing like in FE2 of FFE, when you overwhelm a simple cargo ship with your immense pirate fleet in the middle of nowhere, the AI should understand that surrendering is a good option.
in FE2 or FFE the AI does not communicate with you or with any other AI out of the scripted "launch request", "pay infraction", "we propose you this mission".
Basically FE2 or FFE universe does not feel alive.
In Elite 4 it should change, i don't want those huge universe to feel empty like if i was the only one existing.
-Being able to join a fleet or a convoy, not just doing missions alone for a military company like in FE2 or FFE or delivering some goods for a trading company, but being a part of a whole military fleet action or one of the ships in a merchant convoy would feel very nice.
-Being able to acquire enough credits to be able to build your own stations and be a strong part of the system economy, like in X-Tension (and i assume X2 and X3 though i never played those two).
-Being able to get rich enough to have your own combat fleets, or your own trading company with multiple ships on your command like in X-Tension
-Being able to create your own empire at some point, either because of incredible amount of credits or conquering stations by stations helped by your own fleet, planets by planets, or having them to submit, or even losing systems to possible oppositions doing the same as you throught the game.
Well, in Elite 4 i want to be able to have an impact on the universe, no more getting insanely rich, very powerfull and known everywhere due to my ranking and nothing changes, nothing can be done etc.. like in FE2 or FEE.
-Getting able to land on planets like in FE2 or FEE and being able to either rent a land vehicule or walk around them instead of just being able to fly over them or just stay still in orbit or on a base.
-Factions, empires or opposing company should really try to increase their influence, fighting each other, sabotaging markets, blockades, spying, economic fluctuations etc... those AI should make the universe dynamic, and at some points you should be able to influence it too (your fleet, your companies, your empire, your actions, your alliances, etc...)
Things frozen like in FE2 or FFE are things of the past, i hope Elite 4 will be dynamic in these regards instead of static.
-Multiplayer, while i am an offline player, i believe if there was a networking ability to have people connecting with each other , playing the same exact game (i mean no one of those limited deathmatch/capture the flag/etc..-only multiplayer), it would open a whole lot more possibilities.
While i never played in MP with Freelancer, i read some friends reports and while Freelancer is very limited in its mission system (basically there is 2 or 3 kind of missions in starbases), "roleplaying" with other to create fleets, battles, or economic systems is very fun to them.
In Elite 4, connectivity would certainly makes wonders, people may play this for years (like they do on Freelancer despite the heavy limited game it is).
in conclusion, i don't want an Elite 4 that would be as limited in possibilities as FE2 or FFE were, in their time they were excellent because there was no serious opposition and because of the few non linear freeform games present on the market .
But since that time, lot of space games have added very innovating and welcomed features (some good some not) to the genre.
And if Elite 4 is just a simple rehash of FE2 and FFE with just better graphics and engine, without adding those features i have experienced and highly enjoyed in those other games so much that i couldn't play a game from this genre without them, i am not interested to buy it.
-Combat, difficult point, i love flying in the very realistic way with newtonian physics and inertia in the simulation Orbiter (best sapce simulation software ever), i liked it a bit less in FE2 and FFE mostly because of some oddities, but i really and totally hated combat in FE2 and FFE.
Combat were actually the opposite of fun in both games (though it was a bit better than the extremely awfull and horrible ship controls in Elite1 that made combat a pure annoyance).
Either because i felt the AI was absolutely not being influenced by the same physics as me (at nearly full speed, i was always amazed to see it moving around me, slowing down and accelerating while the same moves took me ages while trying to just slow down a bit by turning around and thrusting in the opposite direction), or because at such incredible speed when you are caught in the stardreamer between 2 planets, there is absolutely no fun in dogfighting in those realistic physics.
while i believe such physics would have been nice for battles between capital ships, but fighters and other non-capital ships are no fun with real newtonian physics in space.
There must be a solution to be able to enjoy real physics like in Orbiter (that are even better than the one in FE2 and FFE) during the whole game and have the possibility to "switch" to more "sci-fi-like" ones to be able to really enjoy combat in space like by example Freespace 2 that had the most enjoyable space combat physics despite not realistics of all the space games.
While combat is not the only feature of the Elite serie, when it occurs, i want to enjoy combat in Elite4, not be annoyed by it.
-Being able to either hire more people to join or be hired into AI convoy, flying alone is very dull sometime in FE2 and FFE, it is not very immersive to feel like you are the only ship in the whole universe (without counting those enemy randomly spawned conveniently in your exact path, like if space was small enough for 2 ships to encounter in the middle of nearly infinite nowhere).
While staying alone should always be a valid option, if i want to join or be joined, i should be able to in Elite4.
-More, a lot more interaction with the AI, if attacked, the AI or yourself should be able to ask for help from stations security or from other ships recieving the message.
"Surrender or Die" should then work too, instead of doing nothing like in FE2 of FFE, when you overwhelm a simple cargo ship with your immense pirate fleet in the middle of nowhere, the AI should understand that surrendering is a good option.
in FE2 or FFE the AI does not communicate with you or with any other AI out of the scripted "launch request", "pay infraction", "we propose you this mission".
Basically FE2 or FFE universe does not feel alive.
In Elite 4 it should change, i don't want those huge universe to feel empty like if i was the only one existing.
-Being able to join a fleet or a convoy, not just doing missions alone for a military company like in FE2 or FFE or delivering some goods for a trading company, but being a part of a whole military fleet action or one of the ships in a merchant convoy would feel very nice.
-Being able to acquire enough credits to be able to build your own stations and be a strong part of the system economy, like in X-Tension (and i assume X2 and X3 though i never played those two).
-Being able to get rich enough to have your own combat fleets, or your own trading company with multiple ships on your command like in X-Tension
-Being able to create your own empire at some point, either because of incredible amount of credits or conquering stations by stations helped by your own fleet, planets by planets, or having them to submit, or even losing systems to possible oppositions doing the same as you throught the game.
Well, in Elite 4 i want to be able to have an impact on the universe, no more getting insanely rich, very powerfull and known everywhere due to my ranking and nothing changes, nothing can be done etc.. like in FE2 or FEE.
-Getting able to land on planets like in FE2 or FEE and being able to either rent a land vehicule or walk around them instead of just being able to fly over them or just stay still in orbit or on a base.
-Factions, empires or opposing company should really try to increase their influence, fighting each other, sabotaging markets, blockades, spying, economic fluctuations etc... those AI should make the universe dynamic, and at some points you should be able to influence it too (your fleet, your companies, your empire, your actions, your alliances, etc...)
Things frozen like in FE2 or FFE are things of the past, i hope Elite 4 will be dynamic in these regards instead of static.
-Multiplayer, while i am an offline player, i believe if there was a networking ability to have people connecting with each other , playing the same exact game (i mean no one of those limited deathmatch/capture the flag/etc..-only multiplayer), it would open a whole lot more possibilities.
While i never played in MP with Freelancer, i read some friends reports and while Freelancer is very limited in its mission system (basically there is 2 or 3 kind of missions in starbases), "roleplaying" with other to create fleets, battles, or economic systems is very fun to them.
In Elite 4, connectivity would certainly makes wonders, people may play this for years (like they do on Freelancer despite the heavy limited game it is).
in conclusion, i don't want an Elite 4 that would be as limited in possibilities as FE2 or FFE were, in their time they were excellent because there was no serious opposition and because of the few non linear freeform games present on the market .
But since that time, lot of space games have added very innovating and welcomed features (some good some not) to the genre.
And if Elite 4 is just a simple rehash of FE2 and FFE with just better graphics and engine, without adding those features i have experienced and highly enjoyed in those other games so much that i couldn't play a game from this genre without them, i am not interested to buy it.
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Funny, how I found the combat pretty fun in FE2 and FFE. Of course it could use more complexity, combat mostly limited to 'hit the enemy with your laser' just doesn't cut it, but, once you master the system, the enemy frozen in the middle on your screen, trying to shake you off with erratic bursts of their thrusters should be a common sight.
Then, my good sir, I'm sorry to say, but you suck at newtonian physics - focusing on your velocity relative to the selected frame of reference and your vector sight instead of your velocity vector relative to your enemy.
Educate thyself.
Your problem could also be fixed by simple addition of 'combat mode' that would display your velocity vector using nearest/selected enemy as FOR.
Given the root of your problem, I feel I can safely dismiss the rest of your physics related rant with 'bah'. Seamless blend of visceral space combat and hardcore newtonian physics is one of the good things that set Frontier apart from the rest - hell, I once parked my Asp in orbit (real one, engines off, velocity vector adjusted so that I neither flew away into infinity, nor smashed into the planet) around, I think, Phekda 6 and waited for pirates to intercept me, tracking them first on my orbital map, then visually, then blew them to bits with my lasers once they got close enough.
Fail. They don't "spawn in your path". If you paid attention, you'd notice, especially in FE2 where the orbital map can track ships and other small objects, that the attacking ships can be divided in two categories:
1) "pursuers" - the ones that jump with you into the system (in the same way you can jump after someone using hyperspace cloud analyser), then pursue and intercept you.
2) "interceptors" - the ones that start somewhere else, then intercept your ship and engage it in combat (it is very complex and difficult manoeuvre, but manageable even on manual, if you know what you're doing).
There are no ships spawning in your path, and space being so big is one of the reasons why it feels so dead - there is usually quite a bit of traffic spread across the system. Of course, the universe feeling more responsive would be a great improvement in E4 - can't argue with that.
I'd be for it, were it not for the fact it'd call for great reduction in realism, because, stardreamer can't work in multiplayer, as clients must remain in sync, and without stardreamer realistic physics and full sized systems would imply days (real time) of staring into perfectly still star field as your ship hurtles towards it's destination.
Of course, Frontier turning into just another spacesim is just too high price to pay for multiplayer.
With the rest of your points I (more or less) agree.
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There is an indication of the velocity vector in both FE2 and FFE, when you activate the star background.
At insanely huge speed toward you target, you can easily see where your ship is moving in the 3 dimensions thanks to that moving background.
Notice before your rant about how FE2 and FFE space combat are "pretty fun" (i must say that's the 1st time i read anyone saying that on various board discussing the games) that i am not talking at all about "small speeds" in relation to an object, there the ship vector respond nearly immediately when selecting other object and moving according to it (like moving around station then going to fly around other ships entering the sector, those are easy because the vector change quickly due to those slow relative speed).
My problem is that when my ships are moving at the insanely huge relative speed created by the stardreamer in relation to my station/planet target, and then i engage full thruster while turning in another direction to try to escape this direction, this vector will change very very very extremely slowly, the moving background indicator clearly show this slowness, and i am not just talking of some weak ship engine, it occurs whatever the ship i bought is.
This problem is less obvious when you are attacked early, as your ship has not built yet that very huge relative speed, so you can control the vector quicker.
But even at the peak of the travel speed, the enemy AI is able to correct a lot quicker its direction relative to you than you are.
Sure you being the expert you are can easily get around this, but i am not up to your impressive newtonian domination skills.
Oh, and i know very well how relative speed works, having no problem Orbiter in orbiter to catch objects, join stations or even orbit around small objects after leaving main planet ones, i believe i understood the concept.
But because maybe in Orbiter the speed relative to an object are not as insanely huge , even in the middle of a travel between earth and mars by example, as in FE2/FFE when the ship is attacked in the middle of your stardreamer flight, that's why i never noticed such problem.
So i can only thank you for your condescending tone with me, remembering how great is the internet to moke people without risking anything.
I suggest turning the 'space dust' off entirely in FFE (in FE2 this also disables clouds, so I keep it on there), as it indicates your velocity relative to selected frame of reference which happens to be a star/massive gas giant most of the time and it has absolutely no bearing on the velocity relative to an enemy ship also happily hurtling along towards your destination. Your vector sight is also similarly useless during deep-space combat scenario.
Of course, if you actually bothered to click the link I posted, you'd have saved yourself the hassle of posting a wall of text, and saved me the trouble of replying to it. Then everyone would be happier, no?
Here is a forum where moderators mercilessly jump on anyone who happens to post anything someone might disagree with, effectively preventing any meaningful communication. Go there if you prefer forced friendliness and inane babble. Personally I prefer having my communication unhindered, even if it occasionally requires thicker skin.
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Hurry up and get released, Elite IV! I've just bought X3 and it's only ever going to be a stop gap.
The planets mean nothing, they just sit there and spin, no matter how close or far away from them you fly.
Jazuras, Stazuras and crap. What's wrong with 'minutes, hours and days'?
****** rubbish jump effect. A BLANK SCREEN! Wheee! Elite II's jump effect was better and how old is that?
It's far too easy to get lost when using jumpgates.
Kilometers. In SPACE ??
North, South, East and West. Ditto.
The planets mean nothing, they just sit there and spin, no matter how close or far away from them you fly.
Jazuras, Stazuras and crap. What's wrong with 'minutes, hours and days'?
****** rubbish jump effect. A BLANK SCREEN! Wheee! Elite II's jump effect was better and how old is that?
It's far too easy to get lost when using jumpgates.
Kilometers. In SPACE ??
North, South, East and West. Ditto.
Those people fail at... Nevermind, they just fail.
I'm worried they might have a point. If the game has been stuck in 'development hell' for all this time, it's going to be well out of date when (if) it comes out.
Wasn't it's development restarted from scratch recently?
I think it's rediculous that the question would be raised by a forum that has nothing but speculative commentry from people so far from the source. I also think it's rediculous that anyone would think that Frontier would resurrect old code and present it as new to just 'get the game out'. I think the comment is made in ignorance and it's unfair to lay that on Frontier at this early stage.
Agreed Steve, it's all speculation and hot air. I think most of us on this forum have sniffed out what hard facts there are about E4 and know how little there is.
All the more reason for some information from Frontier (hint hint...
) which hopefully Stefan will provide soon:
The champagne is chilling in readiness....
All the more reason for some information from Frontier (hint hint...
) which hopefully Stefan will provide soon:I am ashamed to say that I have no idea what happened yesterday so the suspense is killing me as well
I'll get back to you on this one once I have had an opportunity to talk to David, which wont be this week but hopefully on Monday.
In the meantime, if anyone knows any good rituals for cursing someone's chair I would like to know about them
The champagne is chilling in readiness....
I dont believe the game has been stuck in the normal "development hell" as far as I can understand it theres not financial \ political \ deal issues holding the game back at all, to my limited understanding of the situation its been held back because David Braben didnt think that technology was up to scratch to match his visions for the game.
Its a completely different situation to the normal "development hell"
Frontier seems to be making ends meet without elite 4, and I suspect getting Elite 4 "right" is far more important to David Braben than getting it out the door - given the legendary nature of the original elite and the rushed nature of first encounters, and now presumably having enough money and resources to not have to bow to publishers demands over this title.
I am hoping that the frontier team can prove once again that Elite can push the boundaries of what seems possible for our systems. I dont expect anything "dated" when it arrives.
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I agree with the guy who says that Elite IV will blow X3 away when it comes out. Boy, did that annoy people over on the X forums!
There are things from X3 that should be in Elite IV though. To name but a few:
Being able to own more than one ship and automate the ones you're not using.
Inter-system trading, buying and selling in the same system in other words.
The combat style.
The different races and attitudes.
The huge selection of ships.
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I agree - I think that other than in the graphical sense the game should have a significantly richer and interactive environment. Mass Effect had brilliant diversity with races and each were so well realised.
Personally it's all about the ships for me tho, and what you can upgrade them with.
On the ships, I personally would prefer the single ship. It gives you a sense of you against a huge universe.
What I really want is FRONTIER/FFE updated, with the modern graphics and more storylines, I think if you put too much into it, It could make it too messy? if if that makes sense.