On Improving The Safety of Commanders In Game
- Thread starter Phisto Sobanii
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Alright alright alright! Here's that summary post I promised all those pages ago. I've read every word of this thread and my goal here is to respond holistically to the issues raised. To that end, I'm going to go ahead and imagine it's time for the launch of Distant Worlds III. Hopefully this thought experiment will clearly illustrate the modes of thinking I'm trying to explore and encourage in regards to Elite: Dangerous, Open Play Events, and troublemakers.
So! How would I plan for such an amazing event? 10,000 Commanders looking to head out into the black with a splash! No big deal, right? I'd focus on two things:
1) Provide fun and meaningful context to the participants.
2) Make ganking not easy, not fun, and ideally nigh impossible.
First, I'd seek to decentralize the endeavor as much as possible. Exploration ships will always be fish in a barrel - but what if there were dozens, if not hundreds of barrels to choose from? What I would do is encourage Commanders to embark from a system special to them. This could be a home system, their PMF's capital, a Powerplay capital, whatever! Of course, regular caveats regarding Open Play would apply and if Commanders preferred a Private Group or Solo Play that's grand as well. There would also not be a set time - just a date. Let folks organize themselves, their friends, and ready themselves for the experience of a lifetime.
From there I would paint a grand, sweeping vision of Commanders across the Bubble uniting together to embark on this incredible adventure. It'd be a real 'unite the clans' moment bringing all of us from all our backgrounds - Imperial, Alliance, Federal, Independent - for what I can only describe as perhaps the greatest of human endeavors: charting the unknown possibilities of existence.
Not bad, huh? Kick the event off with a bang and good luck scoring easy kills on unsuspecting explorers.
Oh, and one final thing...
I love PvP and in the spirit of everyone having a good time I'd ask Frontier to drop a Combat CG in San Tu (better known as the PvP hub... oh, and did I mention it was Anarchy as well?) the week of the expedition's launch. Now, who wouldn't want to see that?
It may be easier to form a DW3 Launch security service instead. Perhaps the months preceding the next great expedition, those of us who are concerned for the safety of others could sign up for a particular time as security, lookouts, communication, etc. There is safety in numbers and I imagine a lot of us would sign up for hour long duties if that were possible. The main question is who would be willing to take care of the organizational mayhem.
Current kill count in open is 773 from Sunday to about an hour ago. We're missing logs from some people so we're likely well over 800 kills.
The greater question is - how do you maximise the chances of getting instanced with those you seek to protect instead of logging in straight into a shrieking pack of pew-pews and eating a rebuy before you've even checked your scanner?
Or, perhaps worse, you log on and manage to establish a stable instance and begin telling your mates "Come on in, I'll look after you" only for them to find that you've been purposefully blocked and the pew-pews appear and start lulzing.
Now, there are ways of managing instancing to massage the chances, but outside of a few close friends the effort quickly becomes unmanageable, and without careful housekeeping it's completely impossible.
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To your first question, I'm not sure. Would take a lot of work and some creative thinking but I'm confident it could be done. I've done significantly smaller group activities and the lack of 'togetherness' didn't seem to be a problem.
To your second question that's beyond the scope of my post. Trying to keep things focused to show that yes there are lessons to be learned.
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Any idea what the count was on Sunday before the servers went down? Just curious.
400ish.
Wew lad.
Ballpark of 200 on PS4. There is no log evidence, this is via word of mouth from a murderhobo whose estimate I believe.
I'm beginning to believe your 'clear instructions' weren't good enough.
I think that a decentralized event would work if the event has a specific goal that requires the teamwork of the participants. That way the group is formed by the common goal.
But from what I read about DW2 it looks to me that the group is formed by being together and doing the same thing together (jumping at the same time, reaching the same place in space…). To me it looks like DW2 is all about doing something together.
I'm not sure if reaching beagle point or exploring over a certain period of time in a certain area of the galaxy is enough to from a cohesive group. If that is the intention of the DW2 organizers.
Your concept might work for an imaginary DW3, but it would be - in my opinion - something different.
I would probably take the same route as you if I had to organize or plan such an event in Open - but then, I'm not organizing or planing such an event.
On one hand, yes, there are always lessons to be learned.
On the other hand, I'm not going to criticize the organizers for not coming up with a better plan for organizing an event that works in Open Mode. Organizing such a huge event in their spare time and not as their main job is in itself a huge endeavor. Organizing an event and then optimizing it for open mode might simple been to much.
My, what brave heroes you are, taking on those largely defenseless exploration ships. I'm sure a great parade will be held in your honor.
I'm still not certain how pvp loving players with highly specialized ships can converge on one system and not a word is told of any of them fighting someone who might actually be a challenge. If you get your jollies from blowing up low hull ships that probably don't even have weapons equipped, that's fair game and glad you had fun, but lets not pretend boasts of such exploits are any more impressive than some guy in solo blowing up an Adder in a low res with a fully engineered SLF deployed 'Vette.
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Has anyone ever sent out an email to someone with specific instructions on how to do something and the person you sent the email to failed to follow those instruction?
I have and I have also had the instructions followed, the ratio has been around 50:50
I know it is not the instructions that are at fault because they have been tried, tested and work perfectly when followed. It is the person receiving said instructions that may not handle those instructions in the way it was intended, they may not have read them properly or had difficulty comprehending the instructions, ignored them completely or any number of reasons.
Does this make them lemmings? No. However it does make sending the email out and the instructions being followed to the letter every time nigh impossible, there will always be some level of failure to communicate, there will always be some people who will go against the flow.
I am pretty sure this is not a rare scenario and expecting everyone to follow those instructions to the letter is hopeful at best.
Now to the scenario to which Phisto (the OP) is referring to.
Knowing the above scenario the DW2 Event was sure to have people attempting to reach the departure point via Open.
Perhaps a combination of things could be done in the future to prevent such a disastrous start to something like this as Phisto has suggested and his suggestions are not without merit.
Perhaps the departure point could be further out from the bubble so as to deter those with short range combat ships from bothering to come out so far. Perhaps having many departure points as Phisto suggested but a fair way out of the bubble and then have a second rendezvous point to launch from after that even further out.
You could even write in RP reasons for this so that it doesn't feel like it's disjointed.
At the end of the day these are just suggestions, they may or may not work as well as intended. They could even be elaborated on and improved.
I hope this has been a learning experience for those involved and events like this continue but with less if not no bloodshed (pixel explosions).
I have and I have also had the instructions followed, the ratio has been around 50:50
I know it is not the instructions that are at fault because they have been tried, tested and work perfectly when followed. It is the person receiving said instructions that may not handle those instructions in the way it was intended, they may not have read them properly or had difficulty comprehending the instructions, ignored them completely or any number of reasons.
Does this make them lemmings? No. However it does make sending the email out and the instructions being followed to the letter every time nigh impossible, there will always be some level of failure to communicate, there will always be some people who will go against the flow.
I am pretty sure this is not a rare scenario and expecting everyone to follow those instructions to the letter is hopeful at best.
Now to the scenario to which Phisto (the OP) is referring to.
Knowing the above scenario the DW2 Event was sure to have people attempting to reach the departure point via Open.
Perhaps a combination of things could be done in the future to prevent such a disastrous start to something like this as Phisto has suggested and his suggestions are not without merit.
Perhaps the departure point could be further out from the bubble so as to deter those with short range combat ships from bothering to come out so far. Perhaps having many departure points as Phisto suggested but a fair way out of the bubble and then have a second rendezvous point to launch from after that even further out.
You could even write in RP reasons for this so that it doesn't feel like it's disjointed.
At the end of the day these are just suggestions, they may or may not work as well as intended. They could even be elaborated on and improved.
I hope this has been a learning experience for those involved and events like this continue but with less if not no bloodshed (pixel explosions).
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I'm not sure what a lot of people who tried to make this venture in Open expected to happen. There has been a lot of buzz about the expedition in the last week leading up to the official launch. Part of that buzz was the painfully obvious point of "there are going to be gankers". People who don't even play the game were reading about it in the Polygon articles. No one should have been surprised, and if they were, they probably weren't very prepared for such an expedition to begin with.
The faux morale outrage of people who intentionally put themselves in such situations baffles me. I don't have any experience in PvP, and haven't been playing the game for nearly as long as some people, but I definitely know how to learn from my mistakes. First time I got space dusted in Open, I started asking questions and learning how to address the situation if it happened again. Unsurprisingly, that due diligence paid off and a while back when I dropped into a system to check out the Void Opal craze, I was able to successfully evade a piracy attempt by two other pilots.
So, having known that it would undoubtedly be a chaotic experience (I referenced it earlier to the scene from Revenge of the Sith, where Anakin goes into the Jedi Temple and massacres the young, helpless disciples) I exerted a little common sense and opted to set out from within the established PG set up for the expedition.
The bottom line is, it's an MMO. There are going to have people who want to avoid player conflict, and there are going to be people who only want player conflict. At least Elite Dangerous gives you a solid option of opting in. If you choose not to use that option, you accept the result and you are the only person held liable for it.
If you don't want that sort of conflict, then don't put yourself in that sort of situation to encounter it.
The faux morale outrage of people who intentionally put themselves in such situations baffles me. I don't have any experience in PvP, and haven't been playing the game for nearly as long as some people, but I definitely know how to learn from my mistakes. First time I got space dusted in Open, I started asking questions and learning how to address the situation if it happened again. Unsurprisingly, that due diligence paid off and a while back when I dropped into a system to check out the Void Opal craze, I was able to successfully evade a piracy attempt by two other pilots.
So, having known that it would undoubtedly be a chaotic experience (I referenced it earlier to the scene from Revenge of the Sith, where Anakin goes into the Jedi Temple and massacres the young, helpless disciples) I exerted a little common sense and opted to set out from within the established PG set up for the expedition.
The bottom line is, it's an MMO. There are going to have people who want to avoid player conflict, and there are going to be people who only want player conflict. At least Elite Dangerous gives you a solid option of opting in. If you choose not to use that option, you accept the result and you are the only person held liable for it.
If you don't want that sort of conflict, then don't put yourself in that sort of situation to encounter it.
I appreciate the kind words. It really does take a lot to keep going after the first 200, but people like you make it all worthwhile. Your kind words will carry us through the next thousand, CMDR!
Deleted member 115407
D
Well said, UNST3R
People like me, eh? And what am I like? Clearly you've some insight, so you've piqued my curiosity. Do tell....
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Of course, this does inspire me.. perhaps I'll organize the DW3 event next time. Would be quite amusing to see all these mighty warriors converge in the starting system, only to find it to be a trap, not filled with thousands of explorers, but thousands of better-armed and more skilled warriors to lay the to waste and revel in it, while the explorers launch safely from a system diameterically opposite of where the supposed starting point is to be. Now that would make a worthy stream.
We would have honestly preferred that, but apparently there aren't any good guys out there willing to step up. So, instead, we're just dunking on people that can't help themselves. Feel free to try and organize a counter-ganker wing. I'd love to add some high rebuy ships to the kill list.
I once read a story about a Commander who flew out to the Beagle Point area, and then called for a fuel rescue (not to the Fuel Rats, some other group).
That Commander flew all the way out there, and then waited until the rescuer arrived, and then very promptly destroyed the rescuer.
In light of this, I would venture to say that if anyone doesn't believe that a sleeper contingent has successfully infiltrated this PG with the sole intention of a big surprise somewhere on the edge of the galaxy, then you are taking the short odds.
I'll be watching for it, and I sincerely hope that Frontier restores no one.
Not because of anything malicious on my part, but because everyone on this Expedition, especially the organizers, should have known.
Riôt
That Commander flew all the way out there, and then waited until the rescuer arrived, and then very promptly destroyed the rescuer.
In light of this, I would venture to say that if anyone doesn't believe that a sleeper contingent has successfully infiltrated this PG with the sole intention of a big surprise somewhere on the edge of the galaxy, then you are taking the short odds.
I'll be watching for it, and I sincerely hope that Frontier restores no one.
Not because of anything malicious on my part, but because everyone on this Expedition, especially the organizers, should have known.
Riôt
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