Frontier: Please show the Imperial Clipper some love in 2019 and give it a buff !

Cmdr. Numa

Cmdr. Numa
SAB380 said:
  • No ability to land on medium pad
  • Small fuel tank
  • Heavy mass
  • Low shields (particularly odd relative to the Courier and Cutter which are known for great shield strength)
  • Bad weapon convergence
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Medium pad is true enough, same applies to T7 and a few other ships too, but I don't think FD will alter the ships that drastically, including model.

Bigger tank and lower mass would work well in tandem, as the tank would readd mass. Also keeps speed intact.

Bigger shields, no. Clipper is a fast hull tank. The shield tank with similar speed is the Mamba.

Convergence, yep, but same goes for the Mamba to an extent, and it would agein require remodeling, not likely.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Bortas said:
That's not the point... the important question is: What can I do in a Clipper, what I can't do better in another ship?
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That is a terrible question. What can i do in a Sidewinder that i can't do better in another ship?

There are always better ships for different activities, plus of course, there are matters of opinion. Some people point to the Anaconda as being the best exploration ship, but its poor SC manouverability and cockpit visibility makes it less desirable to some.

How about asking what other ship can you get for 22 million that is so versatile?
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
Agony_Aunt said:
You're suggesting FD shrink the ship?
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Bortas said:
That's not the point... the important question is: What can I do in a Clipper, what I can't do better in another ship?
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Yes. Why not? The T9 just recently got a whole extra C8 bay because some "extra space" was found when building a completely different ship (?!?!)

Personally I'm sick to death of "You can't adjust the dimensions of a ship!" counter to changing the size of a ship. It's why the T7 is still a hunk of junk, and the Clipper will always be out-done by every other ship of comparable ability.

Look at this rubbish:
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Firstly, ship size is the great game-changer. As soon as you make the jump to Large ships, you cut out a significant portion of potential destinations thanks to the lack of large docking pads. The trade-off for that is always doing activites *far more effectively* from those large-only ports. A python can trade anywhere, but a Type 9 can trade three times as much, and a Conda is just a superior multi-purpose ship to the Python, while being limited to large-only docks. I'll take the ubiquitous docking ability of the Python any day over the superior ability of the Anaconda, unless I'm not planning to need anything other than a large dock.

Imperial Clipper is a Large multi-purpose ship at just 22m credits.

Above it is the Krait and the Python which, despite being only Medium ships, completely out-perform the Clipper in general purpose gameplay, period. People can write home all they like about how the Clipper *can* be faster... it's not faster enough to actually be a functionally superior ship thanks to that speed increase.

But I'm digressing slightly. Main reason I put the above chart up is for a fairly simple reason.

Coming in at 22 million and a Large ship, look what the Clipper immediately competes with on price-point between it and the next comparable ship.
Krait MK2, Fer de Lance, Python, Challenger, FGS, and the Mamba somewhere in there. These are all household names, with established reputations as "The go to" for so many activities, whether it's combat, exploration, multi-purpose roles or whatever.

As I mentioned before, the Anaconda is, in my opinion, the most comparable "Upgrade" from a Python, or a Krait, since the two are quite comparable, with the Krait posessing a bigger combat bent.

But then before that we've got the giant dag that is the Imperial Clipper, sitting there as a Large ship with barely the fitout options of more expensive medium ships.

What an utter joke.

OK... we're not on board with shrinking the Clipper, so let's make it what it should be. A =~ 80m credit ship which fills the gap between Python and Anaconda, with superior multi-purpose capabilities to the Krait and Python, able to go toe-to-toe with ships like the FAS and Challenger in combat, but stops well short of being able to out-perform the Anaconda.

As a Large ship, I frankly expect nothing less than that. The fact it's the first Large multi-purpose ship at 22m credits, and there's a whole 120m between it and the next Large multi-purpose ship shows how ridiculously out of place the ship is.

EDIT: And the Type-7, if that wants to "stay large" should have a cargo capacity comparable to the pre-buff T9 (=~ 400t).
 
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Bortas

Bortas
Agony_Aunt said:
That is a terrible question.
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Yeah I understand why it's terrible for your argumentation basic ;)

There are always better ships for different activities
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Every ship should have at least SOMETHING it is exceptionally good at to have a reason to exist. Especially if it requires a large landing pad. And yes, there are other, even more useless ships, I admit.

How about asking what other ship can you get for 22 million that is so versatile?
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A new account can get into a Python faster than into a Clipper because of the military rank grind required for the latter. The price difference is negligible... takes half an hour of mining to overcome.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Cmdr. Numa said:
Considerably less firepower though. Those two mediums don't quite match the two smalls and one huge on the Mamba. Although the Clipper looks as if it could take a third possibly large hardpoint on top.
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True, but there again, the Mamba is a pure combat ship, so its kind of expected. Plus of course a significant price difference.
 

Jakester13

Jakester13
Clipper fan here.

Quirky? Yes.

Sleek, agile, fast? Yes.

Fun to drive? Definitely.

Do I miss outposts? Yes.

But for me it's the large "Cobra MkIII" equivalent - a multirole ship.

I'm currently in an armed core-mining rig (what a shock!! :D) and it's a blast boosting through the rings seeking treasure.

Tweaks? Maybe: I'm on the fence on major changes, but a wee bit more shield strength would be acceptable.

However, even a new paint job would be welcome at this point!! Clippers have had zero Store-love, ever?!

o7
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Bortas said:
Every ship should have at least SOMETHING it is exceptionally good at to have a reason to exist.
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Now i have to disagree with that.

Take the Cobra Mk4, its gets a lot of bad press, but its a good small ship with lots of internals. It isn't exceptionally good at anything, it can do some stuff quite well though.

If we are going to start going through all the ships that don't do something exceptionally well, then we might be here quite a while.

Again, show me a different ship in the 22 million range with the versatility of the Clipper. For its price, its a beast.

EDIT: Actually, i would say the Clipper excels at being a pirate ship.
 
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Bortas

Bortas
Jmanis said:
Especially with the Void Opal rushes these days. Two or three runs in a T6 will let you jump straight into a Python. Clipper is way more effort.
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Yes, the devaluation of credits has screwed up many things... back in the days when commodity trading and rares trading were the fastest way to earn credits, the Clipper and also the Dropship used to be reasonable stepping stones between the Asp Explorer and the Python. But now, where only half an hour of mining is seperating them, the rank-locked multi-purpose ships are in a very bad position.
 

aRJay

aRJay
Bortas said:
Does it? Speed aside, as this is mostly uselss in most situations... what exactly does the Clipper excel at, if you compare it to - say - the Python?

- The Clipper has considarably lower internal space, despite being a large ship
- The Clipper has considerably weaker shields, despite being larger
- The Clipper has smaller core internals (PP and PD) despite being larger
- The Clipper has fewer hardpoints despite being larger
- To make things worse, these hardpoints have horrible convergence
- The Clipper has lower MLF, despite being larger.
- Being a large ship, it can't dock at Outposts, excluding it from doing the most profitable missions.

Sure, flying the Clipper feels good... it's cool, but let's be honest. Once you get over it, what's left to rectify chosing a Clipper?

And before you are saying the Python is an anomly... just compare it with the Krait MK2 or the Phantom... same result.

So all that is left is that it's faster... but... so what? Speed is probably the least useful stat for a multi role ship. I would prefer it being 20% slower but better in all the other regards.

And that's in a great position? Really?
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The size of the box you can fit a Clipper in is indeed larger than the one for the Python but if you look at the shape of the two ships most of the box the Clipper is in is empty while the Pythons shape means it fills more of its box so it is not totally a surprise that the Clipper ends up with smaller modules.

That said even though I don't have access to it a few tweaks to the Clipper or a medium pad Imperial ship wouldn't be a bad thing.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Bortas said:
credits=time
rank=time

Python is cheaper.
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Well, if you want to look at it that way, sure, but there is this little thing called rebuy cost as well.

On that topic, credits are just stupidly easy to make and I feel FD have really dropped the ball on this and made credits meaningless.

Regardless, Clipper is still an awesome ship :p
 

Sylow

Sylow
The Clipper once was a premium choice and even now can be useful. I mean, it's not an Asp Scout or something like that. Still I agree that it falls short of most other ships, so a tiny improvement might make sense, though.

My personal idea is an oddball: there are some spots on the ship, which look like they could be utility slots. Unlocking one of those to give the ship one additional utility slot would go a long way. It would put it at a very unique position. There is the risk that this would actually make the ship too strong, so i am not sure if it's the right way to go, but i think it's an idea at least worth pondering.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Agony_Aunt said:
Well, if you want to look at it that way, sure, but there is this little thing called rebuy cost as well.

On that topic, credits are just stupidly easy to make and I feel FD have really dropped the ball on this and made credits meaningless.

Regardless, Clipper is still an awesome ship :p
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I don't think there's much in the way of difference in rebuy costs (relatively speaking). Anyone using a size 7 shield probably won't notice any difference in buying, outfitting and rebuying compared to a similarly a - rated Python (Admittedly a flimsy argument as a size 6 shield will do the job). Point being that despite its purchase price, the Clipper isn't a cheap ship to outfit.

That said, I agree that money making potential isn't the be all and end all. I could live without my Python. I'd never sell my Clipper. Comes down to what you want to fly once money is no longer an issue.
 

Phoenix_Dfire

Phoenix_Dfire
My Clipper is my Pirate Vessel but I must admit, I'd love it to get a little attention. For me the three things I'd ask for are ;-

1. The ability to land on medium pads.
2. Little bit more manoeuvrability.
3. Stronger shields.

But what I really, really want is a ship kit and more skins to make it more gorgeous than it is now.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
So, if we are saying price is not a factor and if a ship doesn't excel at something it should be buffed, what other ships also need a buff?

Federal Dropship?
Cobra Mk4?
Adder?
Hauler?
All the Alliance ships?
Type 9?
Type 10?
Viper Mk4?

I'm not sure, but i'm pretty sure people could make cases for many ships as to why they need buffs.

Where do we stop?
 
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