Frontier why is the motherlode now and egg cup full?

[BL1P]

Well, from what I've seen that's down to:-
a) The PWA not being fit for purpose - I don't care if an asteroid has new mechanics or not. I want to know the licklyhood of it having what I'm looking for.
b) The complete balancing of surface and subsurface (& legacy) mining mechanics - I should be able to make a good income, or find plenty of what I'm looking for via surface and sub-surface deposits. Yet, I've found it very much not the case, with the PWA more interested in pointing out surface and sub-surface deposits of stuff I'm utterly not interested in, over and over and over...

Again, I'm bemused how design meetings and internal play testing has got us here... It does not feel like a well rounded, balanced and considered outcome IMHO.



Yeh, see (b) above. Finding an asteroid with say two sub-surface deposits of what you're looking for should be a really good thing surely, with each of them throwing out say 4-5 fragments?

I believe mining should be a "pyramid", with legacy and surface on the bottom, then sub-surface next up, with motherlodes at the very peak. At the moment FD have delivered us an unbalanced upside down pyramid IMHO.

I was very confused with why this wasn't the case from day one.
At the moment I keep my finger on the PWA button as it seems the only 100% way to reveal Core roids from other highlighted roids. ( probably a bug )
but as 90% of what the PWA reveals is not worth collecting compared to Cores, its the best way for me atm.

Being able to tell the PWA what Ore or Mining type you want would be nice. Especially Ore

 

[BL1P]

actually, you are not fully right there.
you either set up your ship as core miner, aka Abrasion blaster + seismic launcher hardpoints is everything you need to go for millions of credits per cargo unit,

or you set up as a classic miner who strips everything thats displayed on the prospector
-> aka 2 medium mining laser + one of each new hardpoint because surface and subsurface nodes contain one of the two resources you would normally get with the mining laser.
eventually you stumble upon one you can blow up too for what you mine.

for that, you also need a big cargo because the credit per cargo unit is MUCH lower

Yes but they respawn every two hours and if you have them mapped that is very profitable !

 

[Stealthie]

the problem is the proliferation of hardpoints, unless your in a conda you're pretty much going to set your ship up as;

- a core miner
- sub surface
- classic
- Surface deposits

Not sure about that.

Seems, to me, that the main thing limiting your mining methodology is the level of income you wish to generate.

Especially now the whole "multi-chunk" thing is over, there's absolutely no reason why you can't bung, say, a couple of C1 abrasion blasters, a couple of C1 SSD missiles, a C2 seizmic charge launcher and a C2 laser on an AspX and indulge in a bit of everything.

I've always had a couple of AspX "prospector" ships which are completely self-sufficient so I can travel to any system, give the rings a quick go, see what sort of stuff they yield and then decide whether to transfer my T10 to the system.

I guess what we really need, now, is a reason to actually do that.

Maybe FDev could set it up so that industrial systems have specific short-term material requirements so it'd always be worth building a mining ship that could do everything so that you'd always be prepared when some system announces a desparate need for some normally mundane ore.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Didn't change for me in the update. Was the same before and after, so I cannot confirm the existence of any nerf.
But I also discount the possibility of the existence or reddit, so I can't follow your link for made up evidence. If it were real, then it'd be here.

It's so ironic you post that comment here in this thread! [haha]

You confirm the information in OP of this forum thread appears to be incorrect.
Meanwhile the information posted in the linked reddit thread that you refuse to visit appears to be accurate.

Awesome work! [yesnod]

 

[NeilF]

I was very confused with why this wasn't the case from day one.
At the moment I keep my finger on the PWA button as it seems the only 100% way to reveal Core roids from other highlighted roids. ( probably a bug )
but as 90% of what the PWA reveals is not worth collecting compared to Cores, its the best way for me atm.

Being able to tell the PWA what Ore or Mining type you want would be nice. Especially Ore

Or if the PWA produced a heat map based on the amount of the hot material (for the hotspot) along with say three other logically associated ones too, then suddendly the PWA has a true purpose!

Now increase the amount of surface and sub-surface deposits of that hot material (for the hotspot) and the other three associated ones, and have sub-surface deposits release a worthwhile number of fragments (eg: 5), and suddendly mining has variety with CMDRs mining surface deposit (legacy deposits?) and getting a reasonable income. If they come across a sub-surface deposit in what they're looking for, great! And a motherlode? Excellent!

It's then a far more balanced experience than a skewed PWA only truly useful for the unbalanced gameplay of motherlode->motherlode->motherlode...

 

[Stewart_]

I hope there hasn’t been a nerf, but OTOH, why bother with any other type of mining since motherlods are significantly more profitable?

Only time I’d do non motherlode mining is for missions, but even then, still far less profitable AND seeing those ‘roids explode are still fantastic even after more than a dozen times!

 

[Siobhan]

It's so ironic you post that comment here in this thread! [haha]

You confirm the information in OP of this forum thread appears to be incorrect.
Meanwhile the information posted in the linked reddit thread that you refuse to visit appears to be accurate.

Awesome work! [yesnod]

What's ironic about it?
I can believe my experience because I know it to be the case. It may not be the case for you, though it is for others here. That would suggest the RNG is working.
I cannot believe anything posted on what is effectively a tabloid, and refuse to visit it.

So yes, thank you... it was awesome.

 

[StuartGT]

Didn't change for me in the update. Was the same before and after, so I cannot confirm the existence of any nerf.
But I also discount the possibility of the existence or reddit, so I can't follow your link for made up evidence. If it were real, then it'd be here.

It's so ironic you post that comment here in this thread! [haha]

You confirm the information in OP of this forum thread appears to be incorrect.
Meanwhile the information posted in the linked reddit thread that you refuse to visit appears to be accurate.

Awesome work! [yesnod]

 

[StuartGT]

What's ironic about it?
I can believe my experience because I know it to be the case. It may not be the case for you, though it is for others here. That would suggest the RNG is working.
I cannot believe anything posted on what is effectively a tabloid, and refuse to visit it.

Wait, someone linked The Sun or Daily Mail?

 

[Siobhan]

Wait, someone linked The Sun or Daily Mail?

Just reddit, but in comparison the Sun or the Mail would be believable.

I cannot take any of those things seriously, nor anyone who uses them as an information source.

 

[WillardTFoxx]

Two weeks ago I collected and documented 19 data points (cores) across 4 system of varying reserves types, inside both hotspots and res sites. As long as the blast was in the optimal range, the results were consistent. I haven't seen a larger data collection, although I'd love to.

8-10 surface deposits, and about 9-15 initial fragments. Detonation fragments yield .8-1.0 ton per fragment

Surface abrasion frags yield .4-.6 if core was in a hotspot, but only .2 - .4 if they are found in a res site or just a random drop into the ring.

I haven't had time to re-test since patch, but anyone who has could compare their numbers to that and determine if there is a nerf.

Concur with this information. Extensive mining and data collection (on paper cos i'm oldschool) holds to these numbers.

 

[StuartGT]

Just reddit, but in comparison the Sun or the Mail would be believable.

I cannot take any of those things seriously, nor anyone who uses them as an information source.

 

[Aashenfox]

To those saying their motherlodes are the same, I can't account for that. For us it went from 12-15 to 8-12 for a perfect blast and we noticed multi chunks before (stuck together that slowly separated as they moved away from the roid) which are not apparent any more, so the 'double chunk' bug was probably fixed for intitial lode and blasting. Combined with abrasion fix roids yield about 40% lower now (I realise I said the 'initial' motherlode before, that was inaccurate, I apologise, that seems to be around 25% nerf, but once again not a concerted nerf, just a fix to multiple materials being spawned from the same node).

 

[Obsidian Ant]

What's ironic about it?
I can believe my experience because I know it to be the case. It may not be the case for you, though it is for others here. That would suggest the RNG is working.
I cannot believe anything posted on what is effectively a tabloid, and refuse to visit it.

So yes, thank you... it was awesome.

My experience of visiting Reddit is that is a great source of information, and much of it is reliable.

But that said, experience is subjective. I tend to visit high quality sub-reddits...maybe your experience is of the more dubious low-class sort. That certainly doesn't include the Elite Dangerous sub, or the Elite Miners sub. Eitherway, I don't much fancy hearing about the type of sub-reddits you have clearly been visiting.

 

[Arkadi]

What's ironic about it?

I cannot believe anything posted on what is effectively a tabloid, and refuse to visit it.

Come on, as if this Forum was not a Tabloid too.

 

[StuartGT]

Eitherway, I don't much fancy hearing about the type of sub-reddits you have clearly been visiting.

 

[MrFailfactory]

I was very confused with why this wasn't the case from day one.
At the moment I keep my finger on the PWA button as it seems the only 100% way to reveal Core roids from other highlighted roids. ( probably a bug )
but as 90% of what the PWA reveals is not worth collecting compared to Cores, its the best way for me atm.

Being able to tell the PWA what Ore or Mining type you want would be nice. Especially Ore

I'm confused why anyone seems to think that it wasn't discussed as part of the initial design. The initial iteration of the PWA might have actually been like that, but then Frontier (correctly) made the decision to disallow that kind of candy-sniping.

Or if the PWA produced a heat map based on the amount of the hot material (for the hotspot) along with say three other logically associated ones too, then suddendly the PWA has a true purpose!

Now increase the amount of surface and sub-surface deposits of that hot material (for the hotspot) and the other three associated ones, and have sub-surface deposits release a worthwhile number of fragments (eg: 5), and suddendly mining has variety with CMDRs mining surface deposit (legacy deposits?) and getting a reasonable income. If they come across a sub-surface deposit in what they're looking for, great! And a motherlode? Excellent!

It's then a far more balanced experience than a skewed PWA only truly useful for the unbalanced gameplay of motherlode->motherlode->motherlode...

I respect your persistence, NeilF, even though you keep rolling this falafel cart up and setting up shop outside of a Gyro restaurant. Try setting up outside of McDonald's. In other words, with the exception of the easy-mode scanner that you want, what you are asking for (selling in this thread and previous threads) is already present, and in arguably better quality.

That said, I want you to know that when you post in a thread, I read every word. Not because your ideas are good or well thought out, but because Benjamin Franklin failed a great many times before he succeeded with the light bulb.

I look forward to your success.

Riôt

 

[NeilF]

I respect your persistence, NeilF, even though you keep rolling this falafel cart up and setting up shop outside of a Gyro restaurant. Try setting up outside of McDonald's. In other words, with the exception of the easy-mode scanner that you want, what you are asking for (selling in this thread an previous threads) is already present, and in arguably better quality.

And I respect the considerable effort you put into building that towering strawman...


IMHO at the moment the PWA - in its current guise - is not very fun or effective. It's most common use at the moment is surely generally:-
1) Holding down for long periods of time, looking for the next motherlode, followed by the next, followed by the next, followed by the next...
2) Using its heat map to point you to FDs shiney new mechanics, only to prospect limpet the asteroid to find there's nothing/little on there you're interest in, followed by the next, followed by the next, followed by the next...

I consider neither of these as very enjoyable or good mining mechanics. Maybe you do? But I certainly do not see them making the most out of what there is to work with.


So, onto that strawman you've constructed.... If the PWA instead produced a heatmap based on the quantity of a logical group of materials (for the hotspot) in each asteroid, suddendly alot of the more tedious elements we're encountering disappear, and strangely instead of mining being made up of long periods of "hunting" and "looking," it's instead make up of *shock horror* trying to actually just mine efficiently.

And no, it's not an "easy-mode scanner", as it's not a guarantee to find what you want, only at least a rather more useful indication than the current incarnation... As suggested, the PWA could/should highlight the combined amount of a number of different materials, NOT just the hotspot one. Thus, a "hot asteroid" might mean, if you're lucky, an asteroid covered in loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for. Or if you're really luck two or three sub-surface deposits.... But it might also contain some/all of the other materials the scanner is picking up. But at least it would not mean the vapid all but pointless behaviour of the PWA we have at the moment -> Oh look another asteroid with lots and lots of surface deposits of nothing I'm interested in, again, and again, and again...


ps: And then of course there's the whole balancing issue of there just needing to be more surface deposits of what we're interested in, and definately more sub-surface deposits which also then pay out far more fragments. Finding an asteroid with two sub-surface deposits of something we're after should surely be a really good find? But at the moment?

 

[MrFailfactory]

I was very confused with why this wasn't the case from day one.
At the moment I keep my finger on the PWA button as it seems the only 100% way to reveal Core roids from other highlighted roids. ( probably a bug )
but as 90% of what the PWA reveals is not worth collecting compared to Cores, its the best way for me atm.

Being able to tell the PWA what Ore or Mining type you want would be nice. Especially Ore

And I respect the considerable effort you put into building that towering strawman...


IMHO at the moment the PWA - in its current guise - is not very fun or effective. It's most common use at the moment is surely generally:-
1) Holding down for long periods of time, looking for the next motherlode, followed by the next, followed by the next, followed by the next...
2) Using its heat map to point you to FDs shiney new mechanics, only to prospect limpet the asteroid to find there's nothing/little on there you're interest in, followed by the next, followed by the next, followed by the next...

I consider neither of these as very enjoyable or good mining mechanics. Maybe you do? But I certainly do not see them making the most out of what there is to work with.


So, onto that strawman you've constructed.... If the PWA instead produced a heatmap based on the quantity of a logical group of materials (for the hotspot) in each asteroid, suddendly alot of the more tedious elements we're encountering disappear, and strangely instead of mining being made up of long periods of "hunting" and "looking," it's instead make up of *shock horror* trying to actually just mine efficiently.

And no, it's not an "easy-mode scanner", as it's not a guarantee to find what you want, only at least a rather more useful indication than the current incarnation... As suggested, the PWA could/should highlight the combined amount of a number of different materials, NOT just the hotspot one. Thus, a "hot asteroid" might mean, if you're lucky, an asteroid covered in loads of surface deposits of what you're looking for. Or if you're really luck two or three sub-surface deposits.... But it might also contain some/all of the other materials the scanner is picking up. But at least it would not mean the vapid all but pointless behaviour of the PWA we have at the moment -> Oh look another asteroid with lots and lots of surface deposits of nothing I'm interested in, again, and again, and again...


ps: And then of course there's the whole balancing issue of there just needing to be more surface deposits of what we're interested in, and definately more sub-surface deposits which also then pay out far more fragments. Finding an asteroid with two sub-surface deposits of something we're after should surely be a really good find? But at the moment?

Actually, I have fully understood what you want, and how you want it to work, from the first time you posted it. Again, with the exception of the scanner functionality, that is already present in the game, via the prospector limpet mechanic and gameplay. You would like the scanner to help you weed out asteroids that aren't high in the content you are specifically looking for, regardless of old or new mechanics, and that's a fair desire, but Frontier is/was correct in not building the scanner that way. Yes, it's easy mode, and it shortcuts too much of the *search* part of the loop.

There is certainly an argument to be made about the viability of the sub-surface mechanic compared to the others, and also about the relative payouts in general. Frontier has the option of trying to fine-line balance the motherlode payouts, but that's really a fruitless effort, to be honest. If they try, it will be an endless cycle of too much/not enough to be worth it, like a dog chasing its tail. It's better to just leave it as the clear pinnacle, if raw credits/T or credits/hour is the goal.

That isn't everyone's goal though, NeilF, and not everyone plays the game with efficiency being the primary criterion in any activity. You clearly do, and you keep doing you, but Frontier has done a pretty good job of putting more choice into Mining, and the most they *need* to do is reign in the top end a bit. Otherwise, it's in a pretty good place now, and has room for more to be added in the future.

Which might include your oft-requested scanner functionality, but is unlikely to include your pyramid approach. Different tools and goals for different rocks is the better way, which is what we already have.

Riôt

 

[BL1P]

If motherlodes can be 'farmed' instead of being extremely rare they are no motherlodes anymore. This thing is called 'common sense' and what happened her is that FD has come to their senses. The only surprising part is that this time they didn't need 6 month or more.

All Fdev has done it seems, is fix the Abrasion Blaster... Nothing else.
This was confirmed as a bug and that it would be fixed about 2 days after release.