Frontier why is the motherlode now and egg cup full?

[Siobhan]

You literally said "I can't follow your link for made up evidence".

I didn't make it up. That would be lying. I wrote down the results produced in game in a methodical manner and aggregated the results. Where's your evidence?

The miners community on reddit has a lot of extremely good analysis performed by skilled mining CMDRs. Just because parts of the site are unpleasant is no reason to ignore it, or insult me.

Ah, there was a misunderstanding. I should have been plainer.
ANY link, by anyone, to reddit, will be discounted by me as lies.

I did not intend to say that the evidence was made up BY YOU, but that you were taken in, perhaps innocently by the made up evidence on reddit.

If it was you who initially made the reddit post, then other factors may apply, but I'm not going there.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

If it was you who initially made the reddit post, then other factors may apply, but I'm not going there.

What "if"?

I'm not sure what part of "which I spent hours gathering and documenting " and "I wrote down the results produced in game in a methodical manner and aggregated the results" is unclear but I'll reiterate.

I literally did the hours of data collection myself, and created the 109 lines of data you obviously didn't even skim. I shared and discussed them with other CMDRs who are interested in the mining mechanics so we could methodically break down the mechanics. I did this. Me.

So if you're saying the data is a lie, you're calling me a liar. You've already gone there.

I'm saying you're mistaken, and probably haven't taken the care to methodically count and document detonation results. For instance, it's not just a question of how many fragments, but yield per fragment. You didn't delve into that, you just said "6" and flat out refuse to consider anything else.

 

[Siobhan]

you obviously didn't even skim.

Of course I didn't... They were from reddit.

---

edit

Look, you may have been very precise about the data, I don't know that. I'll never know since you opted to use reddit instead of a reliable data archive.
The point is, reddit is untrustworthy. It's unregulated and not a reliable source.
If someone posted there that the sky was blue or water is wet, then I'd check before believing it.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Of course I didn't... They were from reddit.

No, I put the data here, in code tags. They were from notepad++ where I keep my notes. A copy happened to be on reddit.

Why are you so antagonistic to this data (or maybe it's the poster)?

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Look, you may have been very precise about the data, I don't know that. I'll never know since you opted to use reddit instead of a reliable data archive.
The point is, reddit is untrustworthy. It's unregulated and not a reliable source.
If someone posted there that the sky was blue or water is wet, then I'd check before believing it.

Mere guilt by association? Wow. The source was not reddit. The source was me. I just happened to post it there.

I was quite precise, you can read the notes for yourself but you won't. More precise than any post on this particular topic than I've seen here in this forum (and if I missed one would love to see the link).

It's just very rude. A thread full of people generally kind of throwing around some rough anecdotal estimates, and so I thought folks might like some actual data and aggregation.

What's the point of putting in the hours of work and sharing them here just to be snarled at.

 

[darkwolf79]

I have been mining Void Opals pre and post nerv along with Grandierdite, Alexandrite and Low Temp Diamonds.
Comparing my stats pre to post update I haven't detected any differences in overall yield and payout thus far, in fact, it's been fairly consistent.
Until we have longer term results we're all subject to sampling bias.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Agreed. The injected price hike BGS injection felt plain wrong. Motherlodes maybe felt a touch too common, but not too significantly so. And the amount of stuff (fragments) on them felt fine.

HOWEVER, the workings of the PWA, and the mechanics/balance of standard surface deposits and sub-surface deposits feels utterly out of wack. ie: Mining should be a pyramid of gameplay IMHO. Lots of surface and subsurface deposits (of what you're looking for) then with periodic motherlodes as icing on the cake. Indeed even finding a sub-surface deposit should be a nice find ideally giving you half a dozen fragments (ideally of what you're looking for).

Mining needs a big kick around the PWA mechanics, and the mechanics and balance of legacy mining, surface deposits and sub-surface deposits. [IMHO]

the problem is the proliferation of hardpoints, unless your in a conda you're pretty much going to set your ship up as;

- a core miner
- sub surface
- classic
- Surface deposits


or a mixture of two traits at best i.e. core plus surface deposits, and to be honest i like the diversity its created and there are now 4 ways to mine.

now if you could tune the PWA to actually hunt what your looking for ( i.e select your material) then the roids show as;

Blue - Classic
Red - Fissure
Orange - Sub surface
Green - surface

i.e this

(other colours available)

Classic mining suddenly becomes more profitable as you can focus what your after - equally subsurface etc,

 

[zimms]

Haha, I knew there was no truth to OP's claim. The whining is too predictable.

 

[NeilF]

the problem is the proliferation of hardpoints, unless your in a conda you're pretty much going to set your ship up as;

- a core miner
- sub surface
- classic
- Surface deposits

Hence the suggestion to combine mining lasers and abrasion blaster into one module/unit - which then continue to appear as the two individual devices (eg: in firegoups). And, the suggestion to likewise combine the sub-surface missile launcher and seismic charge launcher into one module/unit.[/quote]

now if you could tune the PWA to actually hunt what your looking for ( i.e select your material) then the roids show as;

Blue - Classic
Red - Fissure
Orange - Sub surface
Green - surface

i.e this



(other colours available)

Classic mining suddenly becomes more profitable as you can focus what your after - equally subsurface etc,

Sorry, but IMHO this is only underlining the problem. At the moment, the PWA highlights "here's new mechanics", which if you try to use it, all too often means finding surface deposits or sub-surface deposits of nothing you're interested in... over and over...

IMHO, the PWA should produce a heat map based on the hotspots material along with a few other logically associated ones to (depending on hotspot). And the heat should simply refelct the combined quantity of those (say specific 4-5 materials) in asteroids, irrespective of form (legacy, surface, sub-surface or motherlode). But, by all means add some nuance to the heatmap to give a hint?

Next, there should be far far more surface deposits in the hotspot material (& the associated ones), and more sub-surface to. And finding a sub-surface deposit should be a good thing and mean getting half a dozen fragments from it.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Hence the suggestion to combine mining lasers and abrasion blaster into one module/unit - which then continue to appear as the two individual devices (eg: in firegoups). And, the suggestion to likewise combine the sub-surface missile launcher and seismic charge launcher into one module/unit.


Sorry, but IMHO this is only underlining the problem. At the moment, the PWA highlights "here's new mechanics", which if you try to use it, all too often means finding surface deposits or sub-surface deposits of nothing you're interested in... over and over...

IMHO, the PWA should produce a heat map based on the hotspots material along with a few other logically associated ones to (depending on hotspot). And the heat should simply refelct the combined quantity of those (say specific 4-5 materials) in asteroids, irrespective of form (legacy, surface, sub-surface or motherlode). But, by all means add some nuance to the heatmap to give a hint?

Next, there should be far far more surface deposits in the hotspot material (& the associated ones), and more sub-surface to. And finding a sub-surface deposit should be a good thing and mean getting half a dozen fragments from it.

yes thats true, but if you could "tune" your PWA to search for LTD for example then the features displayed by colour would be a good way to find it.

i.e. the highlighted roids are the ones only containing LTD it will ignore everything else - thats what i mean by focusing the PWA



im on the fence about the number of hardpoints, i suggested combining them in the beta but now i think creating different ways to mine adds value to the game, they just need balancing, one ship to mine everything should be a handful to control IMO, but on the other end of the spectrum i believe small seismic charges need putting into the game to create more diversity and accessibility for all ships

 

[rote1]

Still getting between 9 and 15 chunks from the explosion. No change for me there.

 

[rhiz]

Still getting between 9 and 15 chunks from the explosion. No change for me there.

Yes, same here. Discounting any pre-patch Abrasion Blaster shenanigans I'm seeing exactly the same yields, averaging around 15 chunks. Seems to have been a knee-jerk reaction. It's not telling me how many fragments are being freed immediately after detonation though, like it did before.

 

[NeilF]

yes thats true, but if you could "tune" your PWA to search for LTD for example then the features displayed by colour would be a good way to find it.

i.e. the highlighted roids are the ones only containing LTD it will ignore everything else - thats what i mean by focusing the PWA

If you wanted to get LTDs, then go to an LTD hotspot... The PWA with then show a heatmap based on the amount of LTD and say 3 other logically associated materials too...

So a really hot rock stands to have lots of one or more of those four materials... So there's still an element of RNG in there, which I think is acceptable, but at least the odds are you'll regularly find stuff of interest to mine.

And if the heat map also can give a subtle indication of the form those materials are in (legacy, surface, sub-surface and/or motherlode), fine.


But ultimately is should mean the heatmap giving you a far far more likely way to find the what you're looking for, instead of just, this asteroid has the new mining mechanics, but it contains nothing you're interested in... over and over...

im on the fence about the number of hardpoints, i suggested combining them in the beta but now i think creating different ways to mine adds value to the game, they just need balancing, one ship to mine everything should be a handful to control IMO, but on the other end of the spectrum i believe small seismic charges need putting into the game to create more diversity and accessibility for all ships

The suggestion was to combine mining lasers and the abrasions blaster, and sub-surface missiles and seismic charge launchers only at the module level. eg:-
"Surface Mining Module" - Contains a mining laster AND abrasion blaster.
"Sub-surface Mining Modile" - Contains a sub-surface missile launcher AND seismic charge launcher.

Once fitted, the two individual aspects of the module work as now. ie: With each appearing as a fire group item etc etc.

So combining these modules would be quite a simple change for FD I'd envisage. And mean freeing up hardpoints.

 

[Stabby_Dave]

Personally, I' wouldn't mind if they halved the yield or price (not both), as long as they doubled the number of rocks with fissures.

The net result would be the same, but it would cut down the amount of time flying around looking at unsuitable rocks before you actually got to do something. IMO, that would make mining more fun and a bit less "grindy".

 

[NeilF]

Personally, I' wouldn't mind if they halved the yield or price (not both), as long as they doubled the number of rocks with fissures.

The net result would be the same, but it would cut down the amount of time flying around looking at unsuitable rocks before you actually got to do something. IMO, that would make mining more fun and a bit less "grindy".

Are we all seriously happy that the PWA's job is basically just to find the next motherlode, and all (financial) mining is seemingly about is motherlode->motherlode->motherlode?

I'm utterly bemused how (more) people dont' seem to be questioning the behaviour of the PWA and the balancing of FD's new mining mechanics. eg: Why is it many CMDRs aren't even fitting sub-surface missile launchers? Why doesn't finding sub-surface deposits equate to an enjoyable bonus meaning half a dozen fragments?

Can we really not envisage a more rounded set of mining mechanics with more variety and depth than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode being the go to gaming loop due to questionable mechanics and balancing?

I'm bemused how design meetings and internal play testing has got us here...

 

[Aashenfox]

Are we all seriously happy that the PWA's job is basically just to find the next motherlode, and all (financial) mining is seemingly about is motherlode->motherlode->motherlode?

I'm utterly bemused how (more) people dont' seem to be questioning the behaviour of the PWA and the balancing of FD's new mining mechanics. eg: Why is it many CMDRs aren't even fitting sub-surface missile launchers? Why doesn't finding sub-surface deposits equate to an enjoyable bonus meaning half a dozen fragments?

Can we really not envisage a more rounded set of mining mechancis with more variety and depth than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode being the go to gaming loop due to questionable mechanics and balancing??

It's a valid point. Core mining is just too profitable and fun (even after nerf) to make any other kind of mining worth doing.

 

[ibmalone]

Are we all seriously happy that the PWA's job is basically just to find the next motherlode, and all (financial) mining is seemingly about is motherlode->motherlode->motherlode?

I'm utterly bemused how (more) people dont' seem to be questioning the behaviour of the PWA and the balancing of FD's new mining mechanics. eg: Why is it many CMDRs aren't even fitting sub-surface missile launchers? Why doesn't finding sub-surface deposits equate to an enjoyable bonus meaning half a dozen fragments?

Can we really not envisage a more rounded set of mining mechanics with more variety and depth than motherlode->motherlode->motherlode being the go to gaming loop due to questionable mechanics and balancing?

I'm bemused how design meetings and internal play testing has got us here...

The sub-surface mechanics aren't bad, tried them in beta, and could imagine how you might do that as part of an overall strip down an asteroid thing. Think its main problem is that it's not very compatible with core mining for the most valuable minerals, which are in icy rings, so your sub-surface deposits are bromelite and the like. If you were going after painite in rocky rings I'm guessing you'd have painite in there (for the good asteroids anyway), which would be more worth your time collecting. The limited ammo on the sub-surface missiles is another problem. You can blow up a core with 3-5 seismic charges, and get several times that in tonnes of ores, but sub-surface missiles liberate (if I remember correctly) a single fragment at a time, which burns through ammo too fast.

 

[NeilF]

It's a valid point. Core mining is just too profitable and fun (even after nerf) to make any other kind of mining worth doing.

Well, from what I've seen that's down to:-
a) The PWA not being fit for purpose - I don't care if an asteroid has new mechanics or not. I want to know the licklyhood of it having what I'm looking for.
b) The complete balancing of surface and subsurface (& legacy) mining mechanics - I should be able to make a good income, or find plenty of what I'm looking for via surface and sub-surface deposits. Yet, I've found it very much not the case, with the PWA more interested in pointing out surface and sub-surface deposits of stuff I'm utterly not interested in, over and over and over...

Again, I'm bemused how design meetings and internal play testing has got us here... It does not feel like a well rounded, balanced and considered outcome IMHO.

The sub-surface mechanics aren't bad, tried them in beta, and could imagine how you might do that as part of an overall strip down an asteroid thing. Think its main problem is that it's not very compatible with core mining for the most valuable minerals, which are in icy rings, so your sub-surface deposits are bromelite and the like. If you were going after painite in rocky rings I'm guessing you'd have painite in there (for the good asteroids anyway), which would be more worth your time collecting. The limited ammo on the sub-surface missiles is another problem. You can blow up a core with 3-5 seismic charges, and get several times that in tonnes of ores, but sub-surface missiles liberate (if I remember correctly) a single fragment at a time, which burns through ammo too fast.

Yeh, see (b) above. Finding an asteroid with say two sub-surface deposits of what you're looking for should be a really good thing surely, with each of them throwing out say 4-5 fragments?

I believe mining should be a "pyramid", with legacy and surface on the bottom, then sub-surface next up, with motherlodes at the very peak. At the moment FD have delivered us an unbalanced upside down pyramid IMHO.

 

[Stealthie]

but a motherlode should be a motherlode, feels like a handful of beans again.

As memorable quotes go, this one is right up there with "It's literally not worth undocking my ship now they've nerfed passenger missions".

 

[Bunkerkind Anni]

the problem is the proliferation of hardpoints, unless your in a conda you're pretty much going to set your ship up as;

- a core miner
- sub surface
- classic
- Surface deposits


or a mixture of two traits at best i.e. core plus surface deposits, and to be honest i like the diversity its created and there are now 4 ways to mine.

actually, you are not fully right there.
you either set up your ship as core miner, aka Abrasion blaster + seismic launcher hardpoints is everything you need to go for millions of credits per cargo unit,

or you set up as a classic miner who strips everything thats displayed on the prospector
-> aka 2 medium mining laser + one of each new hardpoint because surface and subsurface nodes contain one of the two resources you would normally get with the mining laser.
eventually you stumble upon one you can blow up too for what you mine.

for that, you also need a big cargo because the credit per cargo unit is MUCH lower