The Star Citizen Thread V10

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I'll save everyone posting a response and do a collective one.



You're wrong...

Youre a shill....

cROBerts....

Derek Smart is right....

Stop discussing other games, this is a star citizen thread. Youre only allowed to mention other games or developers in a light that depicts SC or CiG in a negative light

No game loops...

Legal case... bird law etc.....

Only toxic SC fans.....

No toxic SC detractors...

LOL, BUY AN IDRIS

There you go, now you only need to quote one poster to respond to the slew of responses youre about to get.

My god! You've nailed it!

Buy an Idris! :D

EDIT: We could do one that summarizes the extreme fan side as well:

ITS ALPHA!

Already more content than any AAA game out there!

I believe Chris can do this!

CIG have plenty of money in reserve!

If funding stopped, CIG would be able to finish SC with sales from SQ42

Well, of course its taking a long time, we backers voted for the expanded scope!

Goon!

FUDSter!

Derek Smart!

I've got you RES tagged as a troll!

You don't understand software development.

Its perfectly normal to add gameplay last.

Its perfectly normal to do optimizations last.

Its perfectly normal to (insert whatever is needed here to explain away why something still isn't done) last.

Yes, SQ42 was almost ready, but CIG said it wasn't good enough so they scrapped everything, which means we will get the quality release we deserve, even it means it takes a few more years.
 
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I meant planetary tech. Not landing animations. Also I don't think those games are comparable visually.
Visuals are not a factor in the tech. That's just set dressing and part of the rendering pipeline. You're once again conflating presentation with the actual underlying technical details of creating the stuff that is to be presented.

If you're talking about the actual planetary tech, you need to concentrate on the planetary tech, and as mentioned, SC's tech is about on par with what was used in the 1990s.

Visually, SC is also losing ground because of its outdated engine, with UE, Frostbite, and even Unity producing landscapes for with far more detail, quality, and above all performance (since they're actually built around creating nice graphics rather than doing nVidia demos using as much brute force as possible — granted, more modern CE versions dialled back a bit on that but the core philosophy is still in effect).
 
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Bad news are the first ones to be shared here so I don't even have the time to get here. Because the negative discussion here has made most people who play the game and want to talk about it leave. It's unfortunate that you can't enjoy the game or follow the project without being called stuff like "spreading the gospel" and so on.

Again: that is not what I said. I dont call Mole HD anything for example, because he is just a regular gamer enjoying SC, among other games. He is honest, doesn't use cheap rhetoric, doesnt pretend SC is more than it is, doesn't try to constantly frame SC in the best possible way in the most disingenious way possible, doesn't use false analogies, doesn't talk down other games to pretend SC is more than it is, he is actually interested in others games and best of all doesn't spend 100% of his time of these forums pushing SC every way possible. They also dont constantly put words in other people's mouth to claim some false victimhood. There is nothing wrong with people who just like SC. But people who do what I just mentioned are naughty people. :)
 
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It's how CDPR operates as well. They scrapped thousands of hours of work throughout the development of Cyberpunk just because it wasn't good enough. CDPR also had a period when 100-250% employee growth and this sort of rework for quality approach made many employees leave. Sound similar?

Please do not compare the absolutely farcical ****show that is CIG to CDPR, ever again, ever.

There's more talent, love and craft in 144 frames of Witcher 3 than any amount of the stuttery, juddery pile of **** that Roberts and his sycophants have vomited out in the last god knows how many years.

How dare you. How very ******* dare you.
 
I made an important remark about this. I would like to expand on my view on why a track record while great is not a guarantee to success. Witcher 3 got to be the GOTY because of the iteration of 1 and 2. It is still my favourite game of all time. I firmly believe that great successes come from iteration and therefore I am a keen supporter of that mentality. Cities Skylines for example was great because it iterated on Cities in Motion 1 and 2, their previous products in a comprehensive meaningful way. The same goes for the Witcher and so on. If you properly iterate and are brave or capable enough to rework stuff that doesn't work that's where the magic happens.

But another point I want to make is that we have so many examples of great established studios not delivering on greatness in their products. I named some like Mass Effect 3, Assassins Creed 3, Mafia 3, Dragon Age 2. My point is just because you had a great game doesn't mean your next one is guaranteed. Therefore each project is a maze of its own and has its own challenges. Therefore while it is a good indicator to have a track record it doesn't necessarily mean success is a given.



I agree. It is a huge span and it would be worrying if they dropped everything and closed shop but they haven't. They are expanding and working on the product constantly. Those who actually follow and play the game know this. It is in a constant state of development and update. Again while it is bad that the game wasn't good and that they dropped Squadron in 2016. In hindsight it was the better choice.

I think it is the obvious choice.

No, "project" is not the same as released product. And a "project" people have spend money into is certainly not the same as a studio funding development without tapping the public.

Btw: And isn't it kinda funny that Bigco. publishers listed on the stock market have more accountability and lay their financials open than the Star Citizen conglomerate?
 
CIG jumped on Frontier's planetary hype with the pupil to planet video on the day of Elite Horizons release, they jumped on Rockstar's hype when Chris said maybe only Rockstar could compete with them, and they now jump on CDPR's hype with their showreels from late last year.

(CDPR have been sitting on a real buzz for the last 18 months, it's an exciting project.)

This is the ugly side of their marketing, it's a different animal from folks enjoying what's there.

Nowak you gave yourself away posting staffing numbers, because that's NOT what's been happening.

The PU dev is, and I quote "smoke and mirrors" as of about August last year. There are folks on here who I know must know the source of that quote.

This is not a fud campaign post or a trolling or motivated by hate in any way. It's straight up what it looks like. The company has changed and will change radically this year. The game that was sold isn't coming.
 
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The game that was sold isn't coming.

I suspect that a fair proportion of the 'citizens' actually understand this. Which is one reason why so many of the keener ones insist on telling everyone that they are 'having fun now'. They really aren't expecting it to get much better. Bigger, possibly, but nothing like what was promised, with little in the way of sustainable gameplay beyond 'trying everything once' and goofing off with their friends a few times, and bearing no relation whatsoever to the game they've concocted in their dreams.

I suspect that even with these lowered expectations, they are still going to be disappointed. Nothing I have seen suggests to me that Chris Roberts actually understands what it is that makes a game worth playing.
 
I suspect that a fair proportion of the 'citizens' actually understand this. Which is one reason why so many of the keener ones insist on telling everyone that they are 'having fun now'. They really aren't expecting it to get much better. Bigger, possibly, but nothing like what was promised, with little in the way of sustainable gameplay beyond 'trying everything once' and goofing off with their friends a few times, and bearing no relation whatsoever to the game they've concocted in their dreams.

I suspect that even with these lowered expectations, they are still going to be disappointed. Nothing I have seen suggests to me that Chris Roberts actually understands what it is that makes a game worth playing.

"It is already better than most AAA games, and you can fit all of Skyrim in just one crater in SC!" :)
 
Star Citizen displays their goal on a public roadmap and delivers on them

Not once has that happened. Back when the roadmap was feature-centric they never made an intended release date, and since they 'refactored' it to become date-centric they haven't released a single quarterly patch that has included all the features that were originally planned. The only time the roadmap is in any way relevant is when a given patch is released, because by that point the roadmap has been stripped down to match what was actually delivered. At that point it's no longer a roadmap, it's just patch notes.

I am happy that they delayed instead of shoving out a less than good Squadron out. This is what happened internally as communicated. They were much further along in 2016 but they didn't like the quality and content. Hence the delay and push for a 2020 release. Yes it is unfortunate that delays happened but at the end of the day the product development is what matters and the game I am playing now has a much better chance of reaching the ambitions than the product I played in 2016.

Just look at the difference between the first morrow tour which would have been the standard of the game release in 2016 in comparison to the Morrow tour last year.

Two points: You're assuming the Squadron 42 that eventually gets released is going to be good, to justify the delays. That remains to be seen (and certainly can't be taken for granted), but personally I see more of a Mass Effect: Andromeda situation occurring, where years of work is thrown away and the game that's finally released is entirely cobbled together in the last 18 months of development. That's not iterating and improving over previous designs, that's facing up to economic realities and being forced to actually deliver something by publishers (or, in CI(G)'s case, investors). Roberts might have the most shares, but it doesn't absolve him of his legal responsibilities to his investors, whatever they may be.

Secondly, guess what? By the time the game is released the 2017 demo will look just as dated as the 2015 morrow tour does now. And fans were raving about the 2015 demo at the time. Technology isn't standing still, and the "they'll only release it when it's up to standard" argument fails when they take so long that they end up having to play catch-up with other games. For all its limitations, CoD:IW bettered any of the character work and gameplay CI(G) has delivered to date, but that's already ancient history. SC/Squadron 42 are firmly stuck in that loop of having to constantly revamp work they've already done just to keep up. That's not the same as iterating and improving on a design because there never has been any clear design, which in turn is because development has been focused primarily on raising money, not delivering a game.

Plenty of others have already taken you to task on your very poorly-judged comparison of CI(G) and CDPR, but I would also add that while you try and make it sound as if The Witcher 3 was only great because they were able to iterate on 1 & 2, you're neglecting the important fact that 1 & 2 were great games in their own right.

I'll give some general replies because as usual this is turning towards all against me
biggrin.png
even though I am a cautious optimist that enjoys hearing all opinions regarding SC.

Cautious optimism is fine, praising good work is fine, it's the denialism, whitewashing of Roberts' many and varied missteps, and disingenuous comparisons to successful developers that tends to get called out.
 
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An obvious difference between CIG and CDPR is that CDPR can retain staff and attract talent from all over the world.

Also - If those patch lists are indicative of 500 staff then the engine is in a worse state than I thought.
 
I suspect that a fair proportion of the 'citizens' actually understand this. Which is one reason why so many of the keener ones insist on telling everyone that they are 'having fun now'. They really aren't expecting it to get much better. Bigger, possibly, but nothing like what was promised, with little in the way of sustainable gameplay beyond 'trying everything once' and goofing off with their friends a few times, and bearing no relation whatsoever to the game they've concocted in their dreams.

I suspect that even with these lowered expectations, they are still going to be disappointed. Nothing I have seen suggests to me that Chris Roberts actually understands what it is that makes a game worth playing.

That game/vision that was sold isn't happening, and they went full smoke and mirrors with the PU dev and roadmaps late last year.

It's nuts to see those being posted and described as perfectly normal. Totally nuts.
 
Talking about open development and progress. Latest development update image for this weeks roadmap update.

Star Citizen
58AV5nM.jpg

Squadron 42
qs2IBtr.jpg

An obvious difference between CIG and CDPR is that CDPR can retain staff and attract talent from all over the world.

Also - If those patch lists are indicative of 500 staff then the engine is in a worse state than I thought.

Squadron progress wasn't visible until now. Thanks to the new roadmap we can see how it is coming along too. There always some features not listed on the roadmap making it into the PU. Apparently they were related to SQ42 development.

That game/vision that was sold isn't happening, and they went full smoke and mirrors with the PU dev and roadmaps late last year.

It's nuts to see those being posted and described as perfectly normal. Totally nuts.

What do you mean smoke and mirrors? So OCS didn't happen? NBC didn't happen? Lorville isn't real? As someone who is involved with gamedev what is happening around the roadmap is fairly normal due to the amount of complexity and nature of the project. Similar issues happen in-house but the public has never the chance to see them due to the closed development most studios follow.

Please do not compare the absolutely farcical ****show that is CIG to CDPR, ever again, ever.

There's more talent, love and craft in 144 frames of Witcher 3 than any amount of the stuttery, juddery pile of **** that Roberts and his sycophants have vomited out in the last god knows how many years.

How dare you. How very ******* dare you.

Pretty defensive about a the fact that both studios sharing a similar method. Oh and another one that is outdated about the game performance. I wish more people here actually played or kept up with the project.

Here are some quick 60FPS streams as proof that are live right now. You can watch people play and enjoy farcical ****show :eek::D

https://www.twitch.tv/rexzilla (Rex is doing some PVP at Kareah)

https://www.twitch.tv/sgt_gamble (Gamble is mining)

Squadron 42 progress was announced in videos where both Erin and Chris are on the record stating that it will be "in backers hands next year" for several years in a row.

You are wrong about that.

It's all documented in the Stephen Mocking video on youtube.

Brian Chambers is also on the record with what was being planned for the mocap cutscenes, two years running.

I am talking about openly shared progress like the roadmap. Most of the info we received on SQ42 before was just videos and rare posts. Also we talked about how the 2016 SQ was scrapped due to the lack of quality as stated by CIG. It wasn't good so it didn't go through. Which is far better than pushing something bad to release ala Fallout 76.
 
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Talking about open development and progress. Latest development update image for this weeks roadmap update.

Star Citizen

Squadron 42



Squadron progress wasn't visible until now. Thanks to the new roadmap we can see how it is coming along too. There always some features not listed on the roadmap making it into the PU. Apparently they were related to SQ42 development.

Squadron 42 progress was announced in videos where both Erin and Chris are on the record stating that it will be "in backers hands next year" for several years in a row.

You are wrong about that.

It's all documented in the Stephen Mocking video on youtube.

Brian Chambers is also on the record with what was being planned for the mocap cutscenes, two years running.
 
You can compare CDPR to CI(nee CIG, nee RSI *) only :

- IF they sell jpegs of their cyber implants for up to tens of thousands of dollars in real money, despite them being available in game for free, if ever released
- IF they had the creators of the engine they were using create their funding demo, to pretend they had the know-how, then dumped them and changed engine
- IF they told a room full of "backers" one August (long ago) that their 3.0 release would be out before the end of that same year, then in December that same year casually discussed on stream that they hadn't even spec'ed it yet
(while lounging on comfy chairs, not looking remotely embarrassed enough)​
- IF every single "live" demo contains one-off hand crafted locations, scripted events, or borderline IP-actionable creatures which will never ever be seen again, but which did their job that year ... and
- IF their game doesn't work, or come out



*see attached schedule of shell company names seemingly generated from a long-tail keyword mispelling tool
 
Brian Chambers is also on the record with what was being planned for the mocap cutscenes, two years running.

Two years from now, they'll have finally built up the studios and team and be putting the final polish on the fidelity pipelines to allow them to really ramp up production and get an episode together every few weeks.

Nothing like it has ever been attempted before, and this episodic refactoring method of procedurally generating archived legacy mocap footage really punches above it's weight. Just you wait and see!

Meanwhile, buy an Idris!
 
Squadron progress wasn't visible until now. Thanks to the new roadmap we can see how it is coming along too. There always some features not listed on the roadmap making it into the PU. Apparently they were related to SQ42 development.

Considering they told us years ago they could play through all levels, and it now turns out that that is absolutely not true: how worried are you about CIG lying to you about their progress? :)
 
I am talking about openly shared progress like the roadmap. Most of the info we received on SQ42 before was just videos and rare posts. Also we talked about how the 2016 SQ was scrapped due to the lack of quality as stated by CIG. It wasn't good so it didn't go through. Which is far better than pushing something bad to release ala Fallout 76.

Was SQ42 progress shared or was it not?

'Just videos' were the marketing videos released by CIG to promote the game and generate revenue and email signups, with free tshirts offered via the store if they hit their target number of SQ42 email registrations (they didn't)

The roadmap was promised via that same marketing.

You are wrong about the 'lack of quality' as Chris Roberts is on the record with several publications including a german publication saying that they were at the 'polishing' stage of SQ42 which he attributed as the reason for the delays.

Nowhere have they officially said anything was scrapped but I'm happy to be corrected if you have a source for that.
 
Considering they told us years ago they could play through all levels, and it now turns out that that is absolutely not true: how worried are you about CIG lying to you about their progress? :)

Have you heard about how vertical slices, whitebox and greybox blocking works? Generally it is highly inefficient to finish everything in a game scene due to the fact that functionality takes priority. So you focus on blocking the functionality and creating a basic bloc of your content. Then you revise it and see what else is missing and up it a stage visually. Then you do a review. If it is not up to snuff you go back to the drawing board and figure out what is needed for the intended design. CIG prolly looked at their missions at those stages and decided it wasn't good enough to release. I am totally for not releasing a game when it is not ready. We have too many rushed examples like ME: Andromeda, Fallout 76, No Mans Sky, Rome II. These games launched fairly poorly due to being rushed out the door. Why repeat the same mistake?
 
Considering they told us years ago they could play through all levels, and it now turns out that that is absolutely not true: how worried are you about CIG lying to you about their progress? :)

The new roadmaps are supposed to be a fresh start and a clean slate, and the narrative now is supposed to be limited to those roadmaps only, with the marketing videos and Chris's statements prior to the new investors coming in being swept under the rug.

This is what's going on.
 
The new roadmaps are supposed to be a fresh start and a clean slate, and the narrative now is supposed to be limited to those roadmaps only, with the marketing videos and Chris's statements prior to the new investors coming in being swept under the rug.

So, what have CI-G actually been doing the last seven years?
 
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