Why FSS Mode Must Go

[ibuki mioda]

the new scanner is completely optional and can pinpoint signal sources, the only people against the free slot and new entirely optional feature are killjoys.
its entertaining to scan the system for a desired signal source, you can manuelly fly to each USS if you want but ill happily be sitting next to the system star looking for distress calls and HGE
you ca still just honk your horn and go, not sure why its a big deal.

 

[Para Handy]

I...... With the ADS and practise you could tell at a glance if a system was worth bothering with and don't forget there is 400 billion of them.

... and with the FSS and a bit of practice you can "tell at a glance if a system was worth bothering with"...

With the ADS you had to go to system map with the FSS you have to go to the FSA screen.

The only ACTUAL difference is the speed restriction to open the FSA screen.

the new scanner is completely optional and can pinpoint signal sources, the only people against the free slot and new entirely optional feature are killjoys.....

Remember that "in the black" systems are completely undiscovered and so the system map is empty until you FSA-scan the bodies. That is what is bothering some people - your "optional" use argument only works in the bubble I'm afraid.

P.S. Despite my original objections in the beta, I am quite enjoying the FSS.

 

[SystematicChaos]

... and with the FSS and a bit of practice you can "tell at a glance if a system was worth bothering with"...

With the ADS you had to go to system map with the FSS you have to go to the FSA screen.

The only ACTUAL difference is the speed restriction to open the FSA screen.

Rubbish! With the ADS you could tell if an HMC/Rocky was in the correct temperature range and landable/volcanic. You've now got to play the blob game and scan them all down first.

 

[Para Handy]

Rubbish! With the ADS you could tell if an HMC/Rocky was in the correct temperature range and landable/volcanic. You now got to play the blob game and scan it down first.

I see your argument and can sympathise but it is honestly not as onerous as you imply. In the trip out to Omega with DW2 I could completely scan a 50-plus body system in a few minutes, if I wanted to I could have just skipped any systems that had only icy, GG or rocky with only the brief time I had to be at low speed.

Yes HMC distance / landability doesn't jump-out at you and that is why I can sympathise but since the FSS has been thrust upon us and F D ignored our requests in beta that it be made an additional feature of the disco scan, we have to just get used to it.

It makes a certain type of cherry-picking a bit harder whilst making ELW / WW / AW cherry-picking a bit easier?

BTW - I wouldn't have found ANY NSP without the FSS.

 

[LifesAJourney]

I wish there was no speed limit while using the FSS. There is no such limit in GalMap, system map, codex and all other screens you can open during the flight. Even in menu after hitting <ESC>. That's why I cannot understand the reason it's here.

Apart from that, I strongly prefer new solution over the old one. I don't mind slower traveling through the Galaxy, the mileage or systems count is not my goal.

Several days ago I spent almost an hour in a single system and it was really cool. Some cool stuff in Orrery, some cool stuff in biological sites, some mats farming in cool geological sites, some photos taken near cool combination of stars. No way to get this using ADS.

 

[Darkfyre99]

To the fellow who called the FSS a "Dalek Simulator" (I'm too lazy to track down the exact quote), I tip my hat to you for creative thinking. We are all just Daleks wearing Elephant Butt Leather in a galactic disco party of colored stars and flashing shadows. Groovy, man!

ps - I love the FSS

That sounds more than a little kinky, I mean... you do you...

Forum rules forbid me to contributing to this line of thought, no matter how tempted I may be.

 

[Darkfyre99]

I liked the FSS from the moment it appeared in beta, it worked for me and, naturally, I'm a supporter of its inclusion to the game. My first thoughts when a few other players objected was pretty much that 'they can't be bothered to learn new skills', but reading through several 'explanations' it isn't that - it is the 'way they want to play' - I don't want the game to change again, but do actually appreciate that what is all fine and good for me does not mean everyone feels that way.

(It's a bit like PvP - some love it with a passion and think we all should be doing it - I think it is about as much fun as having toenails pulled off by pliers - it doesn't make them wrong, nor me )

Agreed. Which is part of the reason why I keep participating in these conversations. When I first saw the FSS on the preview livestream, I saw vast ocean of possible ways to use the FSS, many of which have panned out, and many of which require your ship to be moving to be effective.

If I can figure out why someone isn’t enjoying the new mechanics, I might be able to suggest a strategy to use to preserve the game play they enjoy. Not all the time, of course, but IMO the FSS is a lot more flexible than most people give it credit for.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

the new scanner is completely optional and can pinpoint signal sources, the only people against the free slot and new entirely optional feature are killjoys.
its entertaining to scan the system for a desired signal source, you can manuelly fly to each USS if you want but ill happily be sitting next to the system star looking for distress calls and HGE
you ca still just honk your horn and go, not sure why its a big deal.

USSs aren't the issue.
Honking doesn't populate the Nav Panel in unexplored systems.

Inaccuracies AND ad hominems. Nice work.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

FSS True Believer here. I could not STAND the old ADS. So much so, I refused to do any "real exploring", with my farthest trip being a mere 6400 Ly, and that was just not to be in the bubble when the Thargoids arrived in The Return.

Now I'm out on the edge of the galaxy, loving my way around, and would never want to go back.

 

[Rat Catcher]

Agreed. Which is part of the reason why I keep participating in these conversations. When I first saw the FSS on the preview livestream, I saw vast ocean of possible ways to use the FSS, many of which have panned out, and many of which require your ship to be moving to be effective.

If I can figure out why someone isn’t enjoying the new mechanics, I might be able to suggest a strategy to use to preserve the game play they enjoy. Not all the time, of course, but IMO the FSS is a lot more flexible than most people give it credit for.

I have been following your posts illustrating the 'power' of the FSS with great interest - which has led to me taking more notice of the display - still a long way to go, but I'm listening too

 

[space voyager]

It is playing Elite the way they wish, you or I play our own game - I certainly wouldn't expect others to play 'my way'. The change from instant view of a system to having to 'build' the view using a tool is fine for most of us, but a thorn in the foot for others.

It is unlikely that anything resembling the ADS will return to the game, buy those who truly do miss it, for their own reasons, should not be criticised

But half the gameplay?!

I apologise if anyones' feeling were hurt. Just seemed so farfetched that staring at a star for several seconds can be half of someone's experience in a game of.this scope.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

But half the gameplay?!

I apologise if anyones' feeling were hurt. Just seemed so farfetched that staring at a star for several seconds can be half of someone's experience in a game of.this scope.

Well sure, when previously that time consisted of charging up a honk as you rounded a star, ready to jump to the next system as soon as you were in position, and you called it "exploring". Those few extra second are twice as long as that took.

What I'm kind of surprised about, and wonder what ever happened to are the "lazy-h8's" - you know the folks whose entire universal concept was shattered when it was decided that probes would be unlimited in number and came equipped with a lemniscate (or ∞, if you didn't know that's what it was called)? Where are they now?

 

[Rat Catcher]

But half the gameplay?!

I apologise if anyones' feeling were hurt. Just seemed so farfetched that staring at a star for several seconds can be half of someone's experience in a game of.this scope.

It is just one of those things - everyone wants 'their' game It is interesting that, as time since beta/3.3 goes, there are only a few of the original dislike FSS players still being vocal in their dislike. It is those to whom I referred. They are the ones it would appear will not change their opinion, as is their right.

It appears to me that some have found a way to incorporate the new system into their gameplay - either that or have stopped playing and remain quiet. The rest of us are playing 'our' game in whatever way pleases us, using the in-game tools provided or not

 

[Sunyavadin]

the new scanner is completely optional

Except it's not. If I'm out looking for cool barycentres then I need to take the time to scan every single little cluster of icy bodies I can see to see if they're just regular moons around the gas giant there, or arranged in a cool layout with rings and decent views of each other, instead of just glancing at the sysmap. Multiply that by the 220 systems I passed through travelling from Pallaeni to Omega....
The only option is between using the FSS and seeing planets in a system, not using it, and not seeing planets in a system, or maybe going old-school and using parallax which is even slower than snail-blazing across the unexplored reaches with the FSS. That's not really a choice.

 

[Factabulous]

What I'm kind of surprised about, and wonder what ever happened to are the "lazy-h8's" - you know the folks whose entire universal concept was shattered when it was decided that probes would be unlimited in number and came equipped with a lemniscate (or ∞, if you didn't know that's what it was called)? Where are they now?

Mainly they're asking what a hopper is - at least they're consistent in not having a clue

 

[Jon474]

It is just one of those things - everyone wants 'their' game It is interesting that, as time since beta/3.3 goes, there are only a few of the original dislike FSS players still being vocal in their dislike. It is those to whom I referred. They are the ones it would appear will not change their opinion, as is their right.

It appears to me that some have found a way to incorporate the new system into their gameplay - either that or have stopped playing and remain quiet. The rest of us are playing 'our' game in whatever way pleases us, using the in-game tools provided or not

I hate the FSS. I don’t like the ADS much but I dislike the FSS more! I hate its jiggle a line/target a blue circle mechanics. Its feels that exploration in Elite is now more about “finding stuff the Devs have put there” rather than “exploring the procedural Galaxy”. It has changed the game for me and, sadly I have stopped playing. I cannot explore “this way”. I am not a jump-honk Explorer but would never comment on those who are. Instead, I was an Explorer who liked looking at a system’s structure and flying out to bits of it I found interesting. I explored from my cockpit not from an Analysis Screen. I loved ice-worlds. Too much, probably. I looked for planets with an axial tilt of 0 or 90 degrees. I am not an explorer that explores using a line/target model. I tried. I really did.

I am gradually becoming quieter about this because (a) I’ve stopped playing Elite; in time, I will stop reading the forum posts; (b) it’s not going to change back; and (c) few people seem to agree.

This last point is important because it shows my view is “wrong” or at best at odds with the voice of the mob. So, I would be silly to bang on about it for too much longer. I don’t agree it’s better, and I never will, but in the face of so many others who do think it is better I would be silly to keep on banging the drum for the ADS and the previous mechanic.

In many ways, if this new FSS mechanic gets more players out of the Bubble and into the world of exploration, then that is a very good outcome, and I will be happy.

Now, where did I put those Star Citizen log-in details?

Fly safe, Cmdrs

Jon

 

[Klepto]

In many ways, if this new FSS mechanic gets more players out of the Bubble and into the world of exploration, then that is a very good outcome, and I will be happy.

It's unlikely)

 

[marx]

Its feels that exploration in Elite is now more about “finding stuff the Devs have put there” rather than “exploring the procedural Galaxy”.

Yup, pretty much. However, the hand-crafted content that the developers have put into deep space is really basic. The good stuff is confined to the vicinity of the bubble only.
We're left to hope that the next expansion will actually expand the procedural generation, but there's no news about that yet.

In many ways, if this new FSS mechanic gets more players out of the Bubble and into the world of exploration, then that is a very good outcome, and I will be happy.

Looking at the EDSM (new systems uploaded) and Steam data, it wasn't the Chapter Four release that got the most players out exploring, but DWE2 instead. Chapter Four did have an increase, but it was back to Chapter One levels, which was the previous peak. The Return and Beyond Chapter One raised things nicely, then throughout the minor of updates of Chapters Two and Three, activity gradually decreased to a low point of being halved. As I said, the 3.3 patch brought it up to the previous levels, then DWE2 boosted it considerably beyond that. (In the case of EDSM, there's also that they gained the ability to log console players as well, but I have no idea how much of the increase is due to that - the method IIRC isn't exactly plug-and-play.) However, it has barely been a week since it started; in the upcoming months, we'll see how many stick with it.

The one area where there is a clear, massive improvement is the number of stars and bodies uploaded to EDSM, not the new systems. With the FSS making it much easier to scan stuff, stars logged has increased five times, and bodies logged has increased tenfold. Looking at the numbers, CMDRs now scan 4.5-5.5 planets per system on average. It's also interesting to note that with stars, it's around 1.5 per system on average: since they are auto-scanned now, we can assume that that's how many there are. (In the areas where Commanders tend to roam anyway.)

 

[Darkfyre99]

Except it's not. If I'm out looking for cool barycentres then I need to take the time to scan every single little cluster of icy bodies I can see to see if they're just regular moons around the gas giant there, or arranged in a cool layout with rings and decent views of each other, instead of just glancing at the sysmap. Multiply that by the 220 systems I passed through travelling from Pallaeni to Omega....
The only option is between using the FSS and seeing planets in a system, not using it, and not seeing planets in a system, or maybe going old-school and using parallax which is even slower than snail-blazing across the unexplored reaches with the FSS. That's not really a choice.

That’s not the case at all. If you’re in the FSS, lone bodies, bodies with moons, and binary+ bodies all have a distinctive look:

Single bodies have just one circle around them, with a single contact arrow pointing at them.
Bodies with moons have two circles around them, with a single contact arrow pointing at them.
Binary+ bodies have two circles around them, with multiple contact arrows pointing at them.

It is possible for a rare planetary alignment to produce a false positive for a binary+, but there are multiple methods of eliminating false positives. Best method is to simply resolve a single body, and see if it’s orbit line is around empty space or a Star. Unfortunately, this method still doesn’t work in VR, because they still haven’t fixed that VR bug.

 

[Jack Schitt]

Its feels that exploration in Elite is now more about “finding stuff the Devs have put there” rather than “exploring the procedural Galaxy”.

This really leapt out at me because it is almost the polar opposite of the reaction I had to the FSS.

The procedural galaxy and the Stellar Forge is one of the most fascinating aspects of ED for me. Much as I enjoy the combat and the mining and all of the day-to-day mechanics, you could remove all of those and the game would still draw me in (admittedly, less frequently). I love the mathematics of PG on an intellectual level, as well as the end result on an emotional level. There's a sort of self-imposed cognitive dissonance between on the one hand knowing it's all equations, and on the other hand being wowed by the beauty of an unusual star system that's spawned by them. It's not dissimilar to the way I can watch, say, a Spiderman movie and be simultaneously wowed both by Peter Parker's skyscraper-swinging antics and by the skills and technology of the animators who brought the scene to life. I know this isn't true for everyone; my wife tells me that the moment she thinks about the CGI or stunt work, she's taken completely out of the movie.

In ED the ADS was always problematic for me, partly because it felt like an obvious technical placeholder (coming from alpha, it was easy to spot those as the launch date rushed towards us) but also because it broke the fourth wall a little by offering all of the PG's goodies up in one go. Every honk was a reminder that all this stuff is already "here" in the maths, rather than "out there" ready to be discovered. By contrast the FSS, artificial though it is, feels to me as though I'm diving into the data at my own choice and pace. Revealing the structure rather than having it given to me, even though I know it's already "there". It's not necessarily the way I would have designed an exploration mechanic, but it does work for me.

Obviously part of its design is to aid in the discovery of those things that have been planted by FD, but they are such a tiny sprinkling on the PG galaxy as a whole that it doesn't feel to me as though I'm being steered in any particular direction. If anything it has enhanced the illusion that the galaxy is somehow real, even though I know it's a bunch of numbers. It's fascinating that we reacted to it such different ways.