If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[Thatchinho]

Other Stuff
The new things to find are all very nice to look at, but none of them are interactive. I think there should be some 'science' gameplay involved in these things - like figuring out how the hell bark mounds have distributed themselves throughout the galaxy after evolving on airless planets. Are they all the same species? How do they reproduce? What's their lifecycle? These things should be mysteries to solve, not boxes to tick in the Codex.

Just replying to this bit separately, as it's kind of a different discussion.

A lot of that may (and hopefully is) already there. Having them in the Codex doesn't mean that the science side of it isn't there - it just makes it more noticeable that the things are there, and makes the science side of things slightly more accessible (via the 'Observations' part) than it currently is previously was (relying as it does currently previously did on being in the right forum discussions).

It's worth bearing in mind that various things aren't new, it's just their existence is being made a lot more obvious. Braintrees, Barkmounds, Anemones, whatever the Tubeworms are called in the Codex. They've certainly all been around for a long time now. (Braintrees and Barkmounds are the names given to them by the community, not whatever FD originally called them.)

And the science side is definitely there for some things - for example braintrees were used as part of identifying the Guardian/Thargoid territorial crossover (and possible conflict) well before it came out via other means, and they were also used to locate various Guardian areas throughout the galaxy. Various other things can be inferred and hypothesised from it all.

It's all a lot more advanced with Braintrees than other things, as Braintrees have definite and easy to find locations where they will occur if they are on a body, along with specific characteristics for what bodies they'll occur on (if they occur in that general area of space) which was all established about a year and a half ago (off the top of my head - haven't checked exact dates). That predictability hasn't yet been established for other things.

What I can say for Barkmounds at the moment is that although they appear in and around Nebula, they don't seem to appear in and around every Nebula, so there would appear to be a bit more to their location.

The Tubeworms (Sinuous Tubers rings a bell as what they might be called in the Codex) seem to be primarily located around the Galactic core so far.

The new things inside the Bubble shouldn't have been worth anything - unless they magically appeared overnight then realistically they'd already have been known about. They should be visitable (like Tourist Beacons) but you should only get credit for things further out.

Different subject again really, but pretty much agreed on this, though it could always be argued that although some would have known about things, that info might not have been known to the Pilots Federation (or at least not known to the parts of the PF that actually operate on behalf of the rank and file members ).

Edit - a couple of strikethroughs and corrections to adjust tenses to actually match where things are now!

 

[Rock-Hermit]

I personally love the tuning system, so much so that I would like to see it applied to mining as well. But hey, that's just me.

Me too, I think its a good mechanic and could be applied to other things like prospecting

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

See, that’s so much better than “I want the ADS back”, because you don’t - you want a completely different system for Exploration than either the old or the new system, along with a ship designed around this. It’s not bad. The real question left to answer is, how would it play? Would it be as much fun the 10,000th time as it was the first 10?

I certainly see potential here. I also see something likely beyond the scope of a portion of an update - this would be an entire year’s worth of update. Perhaps 5.x could be Elite: Rexploration, which would not release in 5.x, 5.y and 5.z format throughout the year, but all at once at then end. There would, of course, be tons of forum salt over the release format change, probably a few rage quits too for having to wait, and a complete lack of combat application would drive out some more, but who needs them, right?

If you'd asked me 6 months ago, I'd definitely have said "I'll keep the ADS", but all of these discussions about what exploration could be have changed my perspective significantly.
I've been saying for a while that I want "'ADS-style' functionality back" and I do - but that's mostly because the FSS has taken exploration even further away from where I want it to be than the ADS was. Since, as you say, reworking exploration to something more like my suggestion is essentially a non-starter, I'll settle for a less-suboptimal version than what FDev gave us in 3.3.

I think it would play better than the FSS (obviously I would) but I do have some logic behind it:
With the FSS (yes, and with the ADS) the actual layout of the system is irrelevant to the scanner gameplay - the honk->pan->tune-n-zoom process is identical in every system (with the possible exception of systems with bodies a long way of the orbital plane).
The space probing minigame (yes, it's a minigame too - but people like them and who am I to argue?) will be different in every system - each one will present its own challenge, every system a unique puzzle to solve. For that reason I think it has greater longevity than the FSS.
Remember, the probes are affected by gravity, so just sitting at the drop-in point and firing a bunch of them off isn't going to work too well. Imagine the scenario where you can't get a slingshot from planet A to planet B, but if you start flying to planet C and launch the probes on the way, you can slingshot from A to B AND then on to D. There's actual multicrew gameplay involved in that too - since your 'Science Officer' will be directing you where to fly to get maximum probe effectiveness.

As far as the combat-wallahs are concerned, my scanner sub-module suggestion actually frees up some utility slots (the KWS, wake scanner, etc) to they'll have more room to bit Shield Boosters - which will make them super-happy

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Scanners: Nah - A sidey should be just as capable as an Annie. We don't need more modules - there's too many things already that limit your choice of ship just so you can fit everything you want to take - It's acceptable in the bubble where you can just dock and change your loadout, but suppose you're out in the black and spot something interesting but you don't have the right scanner because you didn't have space for it -- that'd be a "tad" annoying. Just have the two we have now - modify the FSS (as per countless suggestions) to populate the nav panel and maybe stick blue blobs system map till they've been scanned.

Probes - (Deep space) that's pretty much the same as just flying there so they don't add much, apart from mat grind to build more.

Surface - yeah I like that suggestion.

Dedicated Explo Ship - nah - there's already the DBE, Phantom, Asp-E, Annie (and many other's if you're not obssessed with jump range).

Ohter stuff - yeah, that'd be good.

Anyway #2!

What's your reasoning behind Sideys being as capable as 'Condas? They're not as capable at anything else, so why should exploration be different?
Also, if you're out in the black without the relevant scanner - then you wouldn't know you'd missed something - so you'd not be annoyed

Finally, I did say 'sub-modules' - by putting the scanner modules under the core scanner, it actually frees up a number of regular module slots so you can carry more of the other stuff you want. This applies to every loadout, not just exploration ones.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Just replying to this bit separately, as it's kind of a different discussion.

A lot of that may (and hopefully is) already there. Having them in the Codex doesn't mean that the science side of it isn't there - it just makes it more noticeable that the things are there, and makes the science side of things slightly more accessible (via the 'Observations' part) than it currently is (relying as it does currently on being in the right forum discussions).

It's worth bearing in mind that various things aren't new, it's just their existence is being made a lot more obvious. Braintrees, Barkmounds, Anemones, whatever the Tubeworms are called in the Codex. They've certainly all been around for a long time now. (Braintrees and Barkmounds are the names given to them by the community, not whatever FD originally called them.)

And the science side is definitely there for some things - for example braintrees were used as part of identifying the Guardian/Thargoid territorial crossover (and possible conflict) well before it came out via other means, and they were also used to locate various Guardian areas throughout the galaxy. Various other things can be inferred and hypothesised from it all.

It's all a lot more advanced with Braintrees than other things, as Braintrees have definite and easy to find locations where they will occur if they are on a body, along with specific characteristics for what bodies they'll occur on (if they occur in that general area of space) which was all established about a year and a half ago (off the top of my head - haven't checked exact dates). That predictability hasn't yet been established for other things.

What I can say for Barkmounds at the moment is that although they appear in and around Nebula, they don't seem to appear in and around every Nebula, so there would appear to be a bit more to their location.

The Tubeworms (Sinuous Tubers rings a bell as what they might be called in the Codex) seem to be primarily located around the Galactic core so far.

Different subject again really, but pretty much agreed on this, though it could always be argued that although some would have known about things, that info might not have been known to the Pilots Federation (or at least not known to the parts of the PF that actually operate on behalf of the with the rank and file members ).

I get what you're saying - but I think that stuff should be more accessible in-game, rather than in the forums.
As you say though, different discussion.

 

[Thatchinho]

I get what you're saying - but I think that stuff should be more accessible in-game, rather than in the forums.
As you say though, different discussion.

Well, I'm certainly not disagreeing in principle - one of my main bits of feedback to FD from when the Exploration changes and Codex was announced (and throughout) was about how the dropping of player submitted Galnet articles impacted on the accessibility of things in game, and that a mechanism needed to be incorporated for sharing discoveries about things and not just discoveries of things.

I'd still say more is needed on that front, but they've definitely made it more accessible in general terms. Things can be found readily now without needing knowledge which is largely exclusive to a few threads (and for most things was still non-practical even with that knowledge), what's been found is pushed out to everyone via the Codex (though notifications of any completely new discoveries is lacking at the moment IMO), and the 'Observations' part of Codex entries pushes out information about those things that again were previously only known in the right forum threads. The last bit is again a bit lacking IMO as it seems to be a case of scanning adding observations to the codex as opposed to players working the things out and those things being pushed out to the playerbase, but it's still an improvement on how things were.

(I'd misphrased the tenses on a couple of points in the post which may have misrepresented things slightly - I've edited and changed them with strikethroughs on the original text.)

 

[Dbrn47]

Let them just release a new spin off game. Elite: Explorers.

Yea, put it on mobile with plenty of microtransactions too.

 

[Scytale]

Try this:

Spoiler

 

[GJ51]

I'd recommend a [FONT=&quot]Zenith Trans-Oceanic Radio Model H500


[/FONT]

 

[Scytale]

I'd still say more is needed on that front, but they've definitely made it more accessible in general terms.

The point FD missed, imho, is the content.
Put in more and more exciting content and any player would have been happy to supercruise 500 kLs to have a, let's say 50%, chance of finding a deposit with a thousand of Polonium chunks, an alien derelict with dozens of MA or a body fully covered with biologicals. (Just complete the list with Tharg/Guardians/whatever you'd like stuff)
(I am still wanting a Steltek gun !)

 

[Ralph Vargr]

I'm flying hundreds of thousands of light seconds for Stellar Anomalies.

I do not think the FSS has removed the need to fly to things.

Using the FSS, it's taking at least ten minutes per system, for me. No doubt there are players who can do it in nanoseconds.

This has moved me to exploring in economical mode, using a Cobra 4.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

This has moved me to exploring in economical mode, using a Cobra 4.

One of my favourite things to do as well. Funnily enough i've been personally attacked on these forums for suggesting trying that and doing anything more than jonking.

Sorry point was, in the same mind i just found the keelback.. its shorter on outfitting, but has the same smaller ship feel, an unloved but okay canopy and takes a fighter! Its replaced the exploring cobra on the ps account.

Indigo asked how we would all design it in a prior post.. i started inventing all these ideas starting off with x-4.. blue blobs in the canopy making black or blue balls in the system map being resolved by some quicktime mechanic with wrinkles enabling discovery of more than one body at a time if you were skilled at it.. making it variable based on the types of bodies being fished up.. doing a balance pass on credit rewards and finally making sense, changing things in bubble so the purchasing of exploration data actually had meaning (forfeiting of rewards in exchange for convenience, never punishments).

But then i realised i never wanted to be like that, i don't want to cast down what frontier built, as terrible as a system built for rewards and efficiency obsessed people who don't want to play the game can be, and simply suggest that all options should be available to all players to use and mix as they see fit.

- Put the old ads back as an optional module. I think exploration outfitting has gotten used to the extra slot to see the cost there. There's also a logical problem because the fss is the god mode, so really the ads should remain, the fss be gated by ~30 hours of guardian materials unlock and be celebrated as the god tool for the questing effort that it is. Try to use logic to disagree with this, go one white knights.
- Populate the nav panel on honk.
- Put the spectrum outside the fss ui on honk. This is criminal how its not the case given how stingy the spectrum is in terms of what it displays. Adding a ui lag + heavy weight visual context switch for less info..

Yeah im sitting on we simply ended up with a feature that was made for people who dont like playing the game. Its all the rage in the gaming industry at the moment. Its just a shame they decided to remove the choice. Exploration is really draining if all you care about is the rewards. You're on life support looking for that extra anchor especially because you're trapped by the fss before you can see again. You need to make yourself care or is miserable.

 

[Thatchinho]

The point FD missed, imho, is the content.
Put in more and more exciting content and any player would have been happy to supercruise 500 kLs to have a, let's say 50%, chance of finding a deposit with a thousand of Polonium chunks, an alien derelict with dozens of MA or a body fully covered with biologicals. (Just complete the list with Tharg/Guardians/whatever you'd like stuff)
(I am still wanting a Steltek gun !)

Well I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure I could agree that FD missed that point. Existing content has been made more visible (in the sense of people in game knowing of its existence) and accessible. New content has been added. Making it so things can actually be found has been a big step forwards (disregarding for the moment the exact means of that).

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you meant, but I wouldn't want to see the kind of content where it's down to a (high) rng chance that things appear in systems. That's just going to end up with the same stuff being more or less everywhere. And if you drop the rng low enough to be practical, well that just ends up with complaints about rng.

Rather, I expect what's out there in the Milky Way to be tied in with the history and development of the galaxy, and also a few principles like fungi not having their own FTL travel, for example. Or if you prefer, there should be a story behind it all. And I want us to be able to piece together at least fragments of that story. That story's not going to be there if the galaxy is just populated with things to find via rng. And isn't more mystery and more story what you want?

 

[LeoBartlet]

Let them just release a new spin off game. Elite: Explorers.

Given the new mechanic added it could even be a mobile game.

 

[Scytale]

Well I get what you're saying, but I'm not sure...

Just add whatever you want to the list. My point was about not needing the stupid FSS if there was exciting content and rewards enough. And they could evolve in relation with the distance from the Bubble/Colonia and/or the difficulty to reach certain systems, high G bodies, etc..
Story line ??? Aren't you asking FD too much ? They have no creative and real story tellers left, as you know.

 

[kpmop]

What's your reasoning behind Sideys being as capable as 'Condas? They're not as capable at anything else, so why should exploration be different?

It was more "don't nerf the sidey" - as it is now you can explore in a Sidewinder as well as you can in an annie, you're just restricted by how many extras you can take.

The point FD missed, imho, is the content.
Put in more and more exciting content and any player would have been happy to supercruise 500 kLs to have a, let's say 50%, chance of finding a deposit with a thousand of Polonium chunks, an alien derelict with dozens of MA or a body fully covered with biologicals. (Just complete the list with Tharg/Guardians/whatever you'd like stuff)
(I am still wanting a Steltek gun !)

But having a 50% chance of finding something rare, kind of elminates the whole "rare" bit. Mmmm welsh rarebit...

That's why i like the FSS (mecahnic - I'm not saying the UI couldn't do with some work), it gives you the chance to find something rare even if it's only once every 100 systems - if there's something there, you can find it with a little effort. Whereas before, I can't even begin to imagine the level of patience and dediction required to find all those INRA bases and such.

 

[Scytale]

But having a 50% chance of finding something rare, kind of elminates the whole "rare" bit. Mmmm welsh rarebit...

I wrote "let's say" just before that.
And with the FSS, nothing is rare anymore.

Smiley: 'IF it's genuine..'
Control: 'Nothing is genuine anymore !'

Control was right.

I can't even begin to imagine the level of patience and dediction required to find all those INRA bases and such.

It's called "Exploration".

 

[Enderby]

They replaced exploration with a telescope

 

[kpmop]

...And with the FSS, nothing is rare anymore.

Yeah maybe it has swung a little too far towards "easy" now (I'm not complaining, mind), but it came from a place that required ridiculous levels of time and effort (for a game).

They replaced exploration with a telescope 藍

Isn't that kind of thing sensible people would do though? - have a quick look to see if there is anything to see before heading off. It could be worse - someone mentioned being able to remotely observe other systems from an another system entirely (much like we do in RL at the moment!)

 

[Thatchinho]

Just add whatever you want to the list. My point was about not needing the stupid FSS if there was exciting content and rewards enough. And they could evolve in relation with the distance from the Bubble/Colonia and/or the difficulty to reach certain systems, high G bodies, etc..
Story line ??? Aren't you asking FD too much ? They have no creative and real story tellers left, as you know.

Possibly you're seeing something I'm not picking up from the post, but I'm definitely not quite following you here. Are you meaning that if they went for packing systems with stuff, that you wouldn't have to use the FSS, or are you meaning that if they'd packed systems with stuff then they wouldn't have had to do the FSS in the first place?

In terms of story, no I definitely don't think I'm asking too much. I know your views on the matter, and while I miss having Drew's stuff, for me that was always part of an overall piece, and there's always been other stuff as well. I've got a mild concern that the locations of biologicals and phenomena hasn't always been done based on how they actually could have got there, but generally FD have been pretty spot on with things like that, so it's only a mild concern. Also, Galnet activity also picked up massively and consistently since June/July last year, which seems a good indicator to me.