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Why you need to over-engineer your shield to the point you can safely faceplant a high g world... No one knows.
It's time to revisit the PVP rebuy. Distant Ganks 2 makes the point.
- Thread starter Chaparral
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- kingziggy pvc_community
Why you need to over-engineer your shield to the point you can safely faceplant a high g world... No one knows.
Asking a question is rude and unnecessary? What was rude and unnecessary about it? That makes no sense. Mostly because I wasn't rude at all, but even if I was, "you were rude" is not a counterpoint of any kind. Ever.
Also, if it doesn't go anywhere useful, then why bother asking what you asked? Does that go somewhere useful?
Insinuating someone is "entitled" is rude.
Stating people are out of line, or acting entitled because they suggest a change goes nowhere useful because it's much the same as asking for there to be no change.
When you demonstrate entitlement, it's not an insinuation. Whether you consider it rude or not is neither relevant, nor my problem.
I never stated you were out of line, though, that's just silly talk right there. Just pointing out that your justification for said change is not rooted in what's good for Elite as a whole, just what's good for you. You won't convince anyone that a change is necessary without an appropriate, rational, and reasonable justification.
what about this game makes you think it should be 'dangerous'
Still, The Danger should be in the environment firstly (no only)... maybe even NPC relevant to the player rank and a choice of, PvEing it or Open (for the extra risk with no reward).. game's a bit of a smash-up as it is, option of PvE as a social environment is not gonna harm anything (apart form it really upsets some people, to think of other players playing in cotton wool... but dose it really matter?).
On an exploration note, yeah it's way to safe. I remember heading out, back when the ships where forged from stone, all the way to the far side (bagel point or something) and coming back with 4% hull, before engineering. It was hard work, but still easy (i was a noob).
Then they change how you jump into systems, making it more safe... still some risk, but not as bad... and soon worked out there was no need for guns and a shield, as nothing is out there
Are you really saying you don't want Open-PvE because your friends would choose it and you don't want them to have that option?
what about this game makes you think it should be 'dangerous'
Every Elite game that came before it. Elite has pedigree. Legacy. When someone says, "Call of Duty", you think of certain things. When someone says, "Grand Theft Auto", you think of certain other things.
For someone familiar with Elite's pedigree, when someone says "Elite", they think of the dangers of deep space, and unknown threats that could strike at any second. The problem is, Elite was around before most people are born, so the things they're expecting from Elite are things they get from other games they're more familiar with, because most people are not familiar with Elite's pedigree. People need to stop thinking of Elite as anything but Elite.
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A lot of the "meh" status of exploration achievements (such as Beagle Point/Sag A* ventures) are due to the superficial nature of exploration mechanics. Until the introduction of the new exploration tools, we didn't have to do much when exploring except honk and jump until we got to the targets we were after. Just about every nebulae or real-world interesting star has been tagged already, and usually you won't find the name of the tagger anywhere else: They went straight for their target and there was nothing in-between to slow down the journey or make it interesting in itself. At least now we have more complex scanning/tagging mechanics, and we can get useful and profitable stuff from detailed surface scans too.
We already have hostile aliens, although they can largely be avoided as they don't interdict. Some of the NSPs are dangerous too. Danger from NPCs are already present when exploring (well, salvaging) within or near the bubble. Danger from players is what it is - an online multiplayer game will have an element of that almost regardless of game rules.
The issue is as that there is no inherent danger in travelling. The integrity degradation is very slow. I would propose to add more degradation from just being in space:
1) have radiation damage hull (unless ship is shielded). Any shield can stop this, but the closer one get to stars, especially neutron stars and such, the stronger shields would be needed to stop this effect. That would mean that just travelling in space would do damage to ships. Fuel scooping would be dangerous then, as would neutron boosting.
2) have planetary approach (especially when atmospheric flight is introduced) be damaging to ships. The thicker/more corrosive the atmosphere, the more damage to hull. Again, countered by shields.
3) make hyperspace jumping degrade the jump drives. That could require a mini-game (because we all love those!) to reduce damage.
The effect would be that travel would mean hardship that need to be countered. Shields would protect against radiation and degradation from dust and micrometeorites. AFMUs would be needed to keep a ship going for long successions of hyperspace jumps. And those hardships would be the same for everybody, so bandits might be less likely to travel far as a pure combat vessel usually needs a bit more infrastructure behind it compared to multi-purpose or exploration vessels.
To compensate for the hardship, dropping black boxes could be a way to allow "corpse runs" for explorers to regain their lost data. If that could be picked up by others as well, we have emergent gameplay!
Space travel itself outside the bubble is no danger to anyone really. That's the issue with DWE at the moment. If it was hard, there would be a lot less pvp going on I reckon.
SOh boy. Look, I'm not interested in dealing with someone who just was wants to offend, or who thinks that by performing some act of contortion they can say something offensive to someone yet still be on the right side of the line.
So I dont think we need speak further.
'i Don't get why elite: dangerous would be dangerous.'.. was kinda pointing out a trade description violation
Elite the original was the game that got me onto a computer games.. till that point i had no interest in games
But I don't want to offend. I wasn't trying to offend. That you're offended is not my intent, doing, or problem. Do you understand? I'm just calling it like I see it. I have no stake in your feelings and I have no obligation to tread on eggshells just because someone might be offended by straight-talk.
As for the 'right side of the line', there's that entitlement again, thinking you have some moral monopoly one where that line is, or even if there is one. Look, mate, I can't do anything about you being offended, whether I intended offence or not, which I didn't, but I'm not going to p*ssy-foot around people just because they get their nickers in a knot over a little criticism of their behaviour, which is what you're doing all over the forums yourself, so as far as I'm concerned, if you can dish it out, you can take it.
In simpler terms, don't be a hypocrite.
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It all goes back to the part where I think a (somewhat) believable universe is important, without artificial barriers that magically vanish damage when your space lasers happen to hit another player character. To me, that makes the whole situation ridiculous. As per my original word on this, it is a very important point for me, and for at least a number of other people who have commented on this thread. I enjoy a game with rewards and consequences for your choices. The consequences include getting blown up by some miscreant with a desire to eradicate all hollow squares from the galaxy due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. For me, the entire argument distils down to that one point. I've got to have sufficient suspension of disbelief to make it enjoyable. Therefore the more artificial player/player barriers, the more magic money appearing from nowhere, the non-functional BGS and economy, those are all sizeable dents in a game I really enjoy the premise of. Should the game go that way, the natural consequence of those decisions by FDev is that a certain subset of the playerbase will leave (me included) and the people that enjoy multiplayer Universe Simulator will get to explore the galaxy in peace.
Our crew (player faction of about 100 active members) play co-op and we also spar every now and then, sometimes to the death and sometimes to 20% hull left. It'd be nuts to have to organise mode changes all the time. Forcing a single mode on everyone would be the ideal way to maintain cohesion - so then in this hypothetical Open-PvE situation, we'd have to all agree to one mode or the other. Currently we all play in Open and in our timezone, it's pretty safe, and we're all very happy with it.
"Blaze Your Own Trail" <-- Includes being an explorer doing explory things I assume?
Why would PvP'ers want to spend months not PvPing? Knowing if they see a rebuy, they'll then be away from the rest of their friends/group?
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No, I'm saying that I don't want it because it breaks reality in the game in a very big way, along with the other broken things like magically appearing money for wing stuff. That's important to me. Whether it's important to anyone else is another thing.
The whole "friends would choose it" is more a logistical thing to work out... having to make sure we were all in the same mode, etc.
"Blaze Your Own Trail" <-- Includes being an explorer doing explory things I assume?
Sure, but what about the piles of cmdrs who signed up as 'fleet security' and brought armed condas? Most of them go to PG so they are 100% guaranteed never to have to actually do their job so they can just o7 each other and feel like real powerful fleet protectors. Its rather... yeah.
"Blaze Your Own Trail" <-- Includes being an explorer doing explory things I assume?
I haven't found anyone saying you can't, or shouldn't be allowed to, explore. There's also nothing stopping you from exploring without being prepared to face marauders, be that with weapons of your own, or a method of escaping them.
Yeah fair enough; organising people across modes wouldn't be ideal.
Like has been mentioned on other threads, I quite like the Fallout 76 model where everyone plays together, but pvp damage from the "aggressor" is seriously de-buffed until you return fire. Then levels return to normal.
In that way more people can play together, but still get the more pve or pvp focused "feel" that they're looking for.
I'm now convinced that Fallout 76 has no redeeming qualities what so ever.
Ha ha. I think they're implementing some sort of pvp mode soon, but I dont know what form it will take.