Open PvE Mode

[5m4llP0X]

Why is this thread even rated with those golden stars?

Can't get it why the three modes are not enough for some.

Only thing I would advocate is more settings for Private Groups. At least a check-box for palyer vs player damege off would be a good feature to have.

Same can be said with CQC and PvP options. D-bag trolls have a place where they can kill until their heart's content, but they choose to look for the weakest ships in the system to destroy over and over.
Private and solo severely restricts player access and the ability to find new people to play with. People want a chance to interact with one another without being griefed into uninstalling the game.

 

[Brrokk]

Nope.

PG and solo have what you want.

PLEASE stop trying to implement rules over the mode that everyone shares.

Leave the one bit of the game thats free to everyone alone for goodness sake.

Does getting beaten in a game really make your bum sting so bad you need a "PvE" open mode? These posts are ridiculous.

This keeps being said and I really don't understand why.

Please note that:-

*** I HAVE NOT PROPOSED ANY CHANGE TO OPEN MODE ***

 

[Arkadi]

Ain't it that way that the p2p network architecture of Elite is not really supporting massive player servers? Even open play in reality is more like a patchwork of instances of random private groups. The game works best in groups of smaller numbres, so why not play the game to it's strengths and use private groups really? It is not hard to create and invite to a private group.

Again, privat groups are lacking tools, as I said above. All that would be necessary would be that checkbox "player vs player damage: off" to make pve groups work.

edit: but one had to rethink special engineering effects like smart rounds, friendly fire would become obsolete in such pve groups.

 

[Jaylem]

PG and solo have what you want.

I am sorry my friend, but I don't see it that way, solo is too empty (obviously, cos it's solo ) and private groups are too much of a hassle, seriously, Mobius has it's whole flippin "sign here" rubbish to join... like hell am I going to do that.

Private Groups also can't compete with the size and scale of an Open mode, more typically because of this reason, they are just too numerous and too exclusive.

An Open PvE mode would attract the attention of all the Solo players and Private group players seeking refuge from Griefers, as well as no doubt a portion from Open standard mode also joining up. it would be a true community server!

Yes, Open may suffer a small population loss, and yes Griefers will loose A LOT of their potential victims as they are all slowly chased away to Open PvE. but in the long run, for everyone it is the better choice. nobody will remove Open, you can still PvP all you like.

It will likely strip PG a lot more, groups like Mobius will pretty much fade away as players migrate from them. but this would be a good thing as it means everyone can achieve Mobius' goal... a player friendly environment.

 

[mecha_mike]

I love a PVE open mode. And I love it to happen soon. Sure I guess Open would die out, without any seal's to club and newborn kittens to pour gasoline over and set on fire the PVP'ers would probably get tired pretty soon and wander off in another direction.

But how big is the active PVP group? 150-200? counting high? Would that really be noticable in the community? How many play Elite for PVP? They sure make a noice, but empty barrels tend to do that..

I see lot of "git gud" and "dont fly in a paperbag" comments . But i really dont know how to "git gud" in my SRV or what difference all the armor and weapons i could muster for my parked AspX can do when 2 Condas spawn in from a PG/Solo to Open parked on the hill for a liftoff and bombing run on parked ship at a guardian site. Before I even can scurry back in my SRV to the ship they must have been jizzing in the pants .

Hailing them on comms was just met with silence.. before and after the attack..
So i guess its not about player interaction, its just about feeling cool in moms basement and getting back for beeing called names in school.

PVE players thats a diffrent story, helpfull, talkative, funny and friendly.. I really dont need PVPer in the game for excitment or danger.. try to land a "paperbag" on a high G planet with the cargo filled with hours and hours of scanned planet data close to Sag*A ..

 

[CMDR Thorn]

Arguing that a new mode that is purely PVE shouldn't be implemented because the minority wants it isn't a fantastic excuse but it is a reasonable one. I have seen posts saying that Sandro claimed "A large majority of players play in open compared to other modes" or something similar to that. However since I havent seen an accompanying statistic on how this data was gathered and what a "large majority" is I see no reason to use this data as an accurate source of how much more popular open is.

Now, catering to the minority of players isnt a bad decision. We dont know how many players want a PVE only mode, it could be 6% of the playerbase, or perhaps 49.9999999....% (still technically a minority). If we had a sample playerbase of 10k people and 4999 wanted PVE open and 5001 didnt, should we ignore the 4999 because they are the minority?

Now, continuing down this line of thought; is combat the most popular activity in the game? If exploration was what the majority of what the playerbase did, should FDEV exclusively focus their efforts on creating exploration content and ignore trading and combat? Again, what if we had 10k players but instead 9k explored, 750 traded and 250 did PVE/PVP combat. Should FDEV focus entirely on explorers, a tiny bit on traders and very, very rarely focus on anything combat related?

What people (myself included) want is a mode just like open, but with player damaged turned off. I hear people say that there are too many checks to implement in order to achieve this goal and to be honest I do at least partially agree with that (for example, removing player ramming might be a tough thing to code) but I dont believe that just because something might be difficult to do that it shouldnt be done. If we used that line of thinking this game would likely not exist.

Another argument against Open PVE is that people dont want players to affect the BGS or other systems without being able to stop them in some way. I completely understand these frustrations as I know how awful it feels to have all your hard work washed away because of players you'll never see. But a new mode that is PVE only will not change this. If players want to get around you they'll just go to solo or a PG.

Before I end this post I would like to say that I think Frontier should release internal statistics (or have some way of requesting them) so that people are able to analyse this data for themselves. Id like to think that if everyone could see that people who want a PVE only mode make up 0.01% of the playerbase then there would be less threads and hate going around, but as long as Frontier sits on their hands and quietly ignores everything there will always be these sort of problems. Please dont take this paragraph as the most important thing I've said here, I get the feeling there are probably a lot of reasons Frontier does this and Im just blind to them.

Finally, I'd like to say that Open is a mode that is comprised of both PVE and PVP combined and that I in no way wish for that to change, I only wish for a mode that is identical to Open but without PVP. I still believe private groups and solo should exist and I believe that they should all impact the BGS and every other system the game offers in the same way they do now.

O7 my friends.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

Can't get it why the three modes are not enough for some.

They are too much. Two modes would suffice: Open and Open PvE. No more group, no more solo.

 

[Hullreaver]

Nope.

PG and solo have what you want.

PLEASE stop trying to implement rules over the mode that everyone shares.

Leave the one bit of the game thats free to everyone alone for goodness sake.

Does getting beaten in a game really make your bum sting so bad you need a "PvE" open mode? These posts are ridiculous.

So, what is CQC for? Is that a "mode" for combat?

 

[Screemonster]

They are too much. Two modes would suffice: Open and Open PvE. No more group, no more solo.

No way will I support losing the modes that allow high-res screenshots while I'm exploring

 

[Arkadi]

They are too much. Two modes would suffice: Open and Open PvE. No more group, no more solo.

Open:
Most time I play in Open because for me it's exactly the mode I prefer. Open for all. Usually I prefer PvE gamestyle, I like to play combat zones and Thargoid content. I play my pve in open because I like to meet some pvp'ers and player-pirates from time to time and I like player combat to be part of my gameplay especially in powerplay or in BGS quarrels, even those Xeno Lovers are fun to meet form time to time to joust and trash talk.

Groups:
Sometimes, if I want to play with a selected group of players private groups are exactly the thing I want, so we can do our thing without interruption from outsiders.

Solo:
If I am really tired and grumpy and don't want any other people around. Or if I just want to farm guardian-ruins in peace. I need solo.

I don't need no special PvE group though. Because why?


TLDR:
If I want to see people I go to open. If I want to play with friends or special group without interference I play group. And obviously solo when I don't want to be bothered by aynone.

 

[Brrokk]

No way will I support losing the modes that allow high-res screenshots while I'm exploring

That's a good point. Anyway I don't see why an Open-PvE mode should be expected to replace Solo for those who like that mode. I think PGs would still have a place although I guess Open-PvE might replace the Mobius groups. If it did, that would be a nice reunification of the player base. Those three groups of 20000 each could all join together in one mode, plus others.

 

[sandkid]

Just because something "is that way" doesn't make it a good idea. And 5% is reasonable on PvE death. PvP, where you can be camped until you log out, it's not reasonable.


Exactly. I'd love to get into PvP, and even get better with combat and turning off flight assist, but the cost to benefit ratio is not high enough to make it worth while.


If they don't fix the issues going on in their game they'll end up with the space equivalent of Dwarf Fortress. Great concepts, really interesting gameplay but a ton of badly implemented features. And just because they work on fixing the current issue doesn't mean they have to full-stop any form of new ideas.

If you're being camped, Solo and PG both provide excellent options for avoiding this. Keep in mind there is literally NO WAY to prevent camping, even in a PvE only server: ramming and blocking. If your sole reason for advocating a PvE server option is to curtail griefers, you need only look at literally Every PvE-Only Game Ever Made to see that human ingenuity is always surpassed by human humor (sick or otherwise).

Camping aside, a much more robust solution to PvP on PvE commander combat - i.e., ship that is built for combat vs. ship that is built for something other than combat - would be to suggest and support the creation of more (effective) defensive modules. At the end of the day, part of playing Open is acceptance of risk from PvP. That is inherent in the title but moreso in the risk/reward structure of an MMO. That said: that 'accepted risk' needs to also be 'acceptable'.

PvE players lack the ability to defend against combat builds unless IN a combat build. The Type-9, a behemoth trading ship, only has 3 usable medium hardpoints...none of which are well situated for defenses like mines (which would work a heckuva lot better if hardpoints on the ships these best fit actually existed). Mines, EMP blasts, scramblers, boost-modifiers....the list of potential modules for 'escaping' are endless, but do not exist in this game. You want to solve the Open Debate? Give PvE players means to defend themselves not with the intent to win a fight, but survive it! PvP players hunting non-combat ships will in turn need to develop better tactics and skills to overcome these measures - creating a balance of 'acceptable risk'.

That balance is not, "I die or you die". It is "I die or your time is wasted." Interdictions follow this pattern perfectly. Incorporating modules that carry it into successful interdictions extends the playability of such an encounter. Now a PvP player is investing time on an interesting fight (Can I get them in time?) and the PvE player is engaged in a risk/reward scenario that builds tension and excitement (Can I get away in time?), both are on more equal footing.

TLDR;

Advocate for more defensive measures for PvE commanders. Combat builds can survive PvP builds - traders, explorers, and miners...not so much. CHANGE THAT! You don't need a new mode of server, just new modes of defense!

 

[Jaylem]

They are too much. Two modes would suffice: Open and Open PvE. No more group, no more solo.

I can kind of agree here to some extent, the propose of Solo and PG will become redundant, outright removing them may not be the best idea, but they can be shoved aside as lesser modes.

 

[AndyJ]

They are too much. Two modes would suffice: Open and Open PvE. No more group, no more solo.

I can kind of agree here to some extent, the propose of Solo and PG will become redundant, outright removing them may not be the best idea, but they can be shoved aside as lesser modes.

No because Solo is the default for console players that don't subscribe to the monthly online gaming that both Sony and Microsoft offer. (This is outside of FD's control)
Solo is also preferential for anyone on PC who doesn't want social interaction or has a poor connection.

Player groups allow friends or teams to join up in the same instance and play together with agreed rules, away from everyone else.

Both of these modes have plenty of justification to exist outside of the 'open' and proposed 'co-op' modes.

 

[AndyJ]

If you're being camped, Solo and PG both provide excellent options for avoiding this. <SNIP>

In your head, as you aren't looking at the game play beyond flying around shooting each other. It's not about flying about in combat-prepared builds. It's not even about the rebuy costs. Try solving the guardian ruins for Tam Rah as a team in SRVs or playing a barnacle site trying to entice a Thargoid visit when some idiot is camping there blasting anyone who lands and leaves their ship - it just doesn't work.

I mean if anyone wants a demonstration at just how dreadful this game is for anyone trying to achieve something in a popular or publicized location, and if you have an hour to waste - just watch one of FD's livestreams. Week after week after week, year after year of devs turning up to pigheadedly show us something in open, with the same predictable result every time - some idiot turns up to blow them up for their 5 seconds of 'fame'. Yeah, FD haven't even bothered to make their own livestreams a safe-place to demonstrate to potential and current customers, it's madness! A massive waste of everybody's time! Why bother watching the same thing repeated, why buy a game when the publisher thinks it's ok to laugh off the obvious issue (throught increasingly gritted teeth) but waste peoples time on what should be a promo - and that's the impression they're selling to potential customers.... and it just gets worse when you realise this goes on unchecked with other streams, charity events etc.
FD have had YEARS to address this. They really need to nut up and make some effort to actually make this a game where everyone can "blaze their own trails" how THEY want, not just leave it for the idiots to be able to ruin it for everyone.

 

[5m4llP0X]

If you're being camped, Solo and PG both provide excellent options for avoiding this. Keep in mind there is literally NO WAY to prevent camping, even in a PvE only server: ramming and blocking. If your sole reason for advocating a PvE server option is to curtail griefers, you need only look at literally Every PvE-Only Game Ever Made to see that human ingenuity is always surpassed by human humor (sick or otherwise).

Camping aside, a much more robust solution to PvP on PvE commander combat - i.e., ship that is built for combat vs. ship that is built for something other than combat - would be to suggest and support the creation of more (effective) defensive modules. At the end of the day, part of playing Open is acceptance of risk from PvP. That is inherent in the title but moreso in the risk/reward structure of an MMO. That said: that 'accepted risk' needs to also be 'acceptable'.

They patched the mail slot blocking out. Now people will be blown up if they block traffic. And ramming is a viable, but difficult strategy for combat. Hell I use it to finish off ships that are near recharged in shields when I'm in my Chieftain.

PvE players lack the ability to defend against combat builds unless IN a combat build. The Type-9, a behemoth trading ship, only has 3 usable medium hardpoints...none of which are well situated for defenses like mines (which would work a heckuva lot better if hardpoints on the ships these best fit actually existed). Mines, EMP blasts, scramblers, boost-modifiers....the list of potential modules for 'escaping' are endless, but do not exist in this game. You want to solve the Open Debate? Give PvE players means to defend themselves not with the intent to win a fight, but survive it! PvP players hunting non-combat ships will in turn need to develop better tactics and skills to overcome these measures - creating a balance of 'acceptable risk'.

That balance is not, "I die or you die". It is "I die or your time is wasted." Interdictions follow this pattern perfectly. Incorporating modules that carry it into successful interdictions extends the playability of such an encounter. Now a PvP player is investing time on an interesting fight (Can I get them in time?) and the PvE player is engaged in a risk/reward scenario that builds tension and excitement (Can I get away in time?), both are on more equal footing.

TLDR;

Advocate for more defensive measures for PvE commanders. Combat builds can survive PvP builds - traders, explorers, and miners...not so much. CHANGE THAT! You don't need a new mode of server, just new modes of defense!

Even if we have the means to defend ourselves, the cost of death is still too damn high from a player kill. It's not just the rebuy from death, but Cargo, discovery AND rebuy all lost. It's damn expensive and I wouldn't blame people for uninstalling over losing all that, especially if they just got a type-6.

 

[Brrokk]

In your head, as you aren't looking at the game play beyond flying around shooting each other. It's not about flying about in combat-prepared builds. It's not even about the rebuy costs. Try solving the guardian ruins for Tam Rah as a team in SRVs or playing a barnacle site trying to entice a Thargoid visit when some idiot is camping there blasting anyone who lands and leaves their ship - it just doesn't work.

I mean if anyone wants a demonstration at just how dreadful this game is for anyone trying to achieve something in a popular or publicized location, and if you have an hour to waste - just watch one of FD's livestreams. Week after week after week, year after year of devs turning up to pigheadedly show us something in open, with the same predictable result every time - some idiot turns up to blow them up for their 5 seconds of 'fame'. Yeah, FD haven't even bothered to make their own livestreams a safe-place to demonstrate to potential and current customers, it's madness! A massive waste of everybody's time! Why bother watching the same thing repeated, why buy a game when the publisher thinks it's ok to laugh off the obvious issue (throught increasingly gritted teeth) but waste peoples time on what should be a promo - and that's the impression they're selling to potential customers.... and it just gets worse when you realise this goes on unchecked with other streams, charity events etc.
FD have had YEARS to address this. They really need to nut up and make some effort to actually make this a game where everyone can "blaze their own trails" how THEY want, not just leave it for the idiots to be able to ruin it for everyone.

I think FD should be sitting up and taking notice that this is costing them sales now. Basically, without an Open-PvE mode the only way a flagship event like DW2 can take place undisrupted is in Private Group - involving a lot of vetting work by player admins which cannot be 100% reliable. This is the event which has been all over the gaming press and YouTube, and has been featured in New Scientist. People will judge the game by how well it goes.