Why FSS Mode Must Go

[Shinji Ikari]

All game are like a wackamole game. Move, point and click, that is all we can ever do, and that includes piloting our ships. The FSS is just another graphical representation of it.

Ermmm, no.

Edit: I just realized your incorrect writing confused me so lets be clear, if "all games are like a wackamole game" then you are wrong (NITW, Sallys Face, Super Smash Bros Brawl and it's iterations, racing games and many others are not move, point and click games, mainly because there's nothing to point at in the first place.), if "all the game is like a wackamole game." then you are still wrong, SRV driving and all HUD interactions do not require to "point" at things.

 

[Tiny_Rick]

Ermmm, no.

Umm, yes. Deal with it.

 

[ExoForce]

I like the FSS, *except* for the zoom in and out part to scan a body. It gets really old fast, and it's like a whack-a-mole game, LOL.

I'd suggest that we just press the scan button on a body in FSS mode to fully scan it, none of this zooming business. If we can details, the we can optionally zoom into it to look.

I have mapped manually in the bind file both zoom and mini-zoom to the same button.

 

[Burke]

Some people cant adapt to change.

The old scanner, it was really simple right? It was like a hammer, it just did what it did in the simplest quickest possible way. And just like a hammer it didnt need any improvement because it was perfectly effective at what it did.

 

[sollisb]

So, coming at this from a non-explorer, but decided to go on DW2 type scenario, and already having Elite Explorer, here are my thoughts.

1. It ruins immersion in VR - from 3D space to 2D full screen image
2. It is stupid (more later)
3. It's unrealistic (more later)
4. It's takes way longer than what we had.

I am not an 'explorer' so therefore my perceptions are from a different angle, and I really do respect that others explorers and non, alike will/maybe love it.

On my way to DW2-WP3 last night, I jumped into a system, honked and opened FSS. I could immeately see more then one Rich Metal, and a bunch of Icey's. great I'll do the thing on the metals and carry on. Oh No Ben, you can't do that! You have to find it first. But eh.. I can see it of my window? Look there! Why can't my scanner just orientate to thata direction and scan the metal body? Sorry bucko, ye gotta do it this way.. First find the outer system then the inner, then finally the metal. What a load of marbles!

In one system I opened FSS and was met with all the bodies in the spectometer? down the bottom but just my cursor in the middle of the screen? How am I supposed to know where to navigate to?

Why is it this scanner can find all USS's and display them all at once yet, if I navigate to Icey bodies, I have to search? Why is if I want to find a Metal Rich body which I can see down the bottom, I can't find it on the main screen unless it's a primary body?

I get that it's a better mechanic than the old way (if you like that sort of thing) but for me, it's a disjointed mess. It looks like it was designed by many people from different angles and the coders tried to shove all the ideas in without once sitting back and thinking 'Is this realistic'?

If I get my telescope and orient it towards jupiter, I can scan jupiter. FSS seems to be in that respect. Why does it do one thing and not another?

And why do I have to stop my ship? Do I have to stop my car to get GPS instructions? To communicate with a satelite?

And what is the Mapping all about? if I find an Amonia world, great, Now I'm first explorer, big whoopey do, and then I travel to it and send some probes, and then what? exactly? I sat last night thinking, why am I doing this? In the old version I had to travel to it to get the first explorer. But now I get it for finding it on the big screen. Why do I need to map it ? It tells me nothing more, except 100% mapped. Well great. And... What do I do now? is there some other cheesy mechanic after this?

The entire thing put together, just does not make any sense. It is not realistic in any way. It's so dumb it can't work unless the ship is stopped, when it does work, it works in different ways for bodies to USSs. It cannot be targetted unless the expected target is a primary body. So dumb.

But anyways, I ended up last night, just using it to see if there were any earth like planets and moving on if not.

I get that people like it, and for that reason alone, it should stay. I'd like an option.. Old way or new way though.

 

[Jon474]

Apparently, we can't adapt to change!

Jon

 

[Burke]

The big issue here, its the way its forced on you. You cant even say, ok i accept ill get no scans and no credits but im going to fly there any look anyway. The entire game is now funneled down the tube that is the FSS. Paralax is not an acceptable alternative

If it was good work or enjoyble to use then people wouldnt have had to have it force fed to them. Something has gone tragically wrong here.

 

[space voyager]

The big issue here, its the way its forced on you. You cant even say, ok i accept ill get no scans and no credits but im going to fly there any look anyway. The entire game is now funneled down the tube that is the FSS. Paralax is not an acceptable alternative

If it was good work or enjoyble to use then people wouldnt have had to have it force fed to them. Something has gone tragically wrong here.

Paralax is still an option, just not for the main star and very nearby planets. Otherwise you definitely can skip the honk and FSS, just fly around and look at the background.

 

[Allitnil]

Paralax is still an option, just not for the main star and very nearby planets. Otherwise you definitely can skip the honk and FSS, just fly around and look at the background.

But it's really not a viable option, is it? If it were then no one would have ever complained about the ADS since they always had the "option" of ignoring it and using parallax.

 

[Spaceman Si]

Whilst I have been using parallax, it is really to get around the "problem" of not having a targetable sysmap available unless I spend time fiddling around trying to find radio Luxembourg

I'd prefer an alternative of a black body map, or any number of other possibilities that various people have come up with.

 

[space voyager]

Whilst I have been using parallax, it is really to get around the "problem" of not having a targetable sysmap available unless I spend time fiddling around trying to find radio Luxembourg

I'd prefer an alternative of a black body map, or any number of other possibilities that various people have come up with.

Parallax is a perfectly viable option for all who really like using it. I only used it a few times and while it did feel like true exploration and finding anything was a big thing - gamewise I was doing no progress. So, my estimate would be "for enthusiasts only".

 

[Enderby]

I do not like the way it has changed something basic into a series of basic, tedious actions.

Pointing the target at blobs and twiddling a to get the inevitable result is not my idea of an improvement - in any way, shape or form.

Adding to my dislike is the fact that it takes you away from the cockpit to that awful screen - complete with silly cascade effect. (Where is the FSS camera on my ship, anyway? View is not blocked by the ship at any angles).

 

[Darkfyre99]

Paralax is still an option, just not for the main star and very nearby planets. Otherwise you definitely can skip the honk and FSS, just fly around and look at the background.

But it's really not a viable option, is it? If it were then no one would have ever complained about the ADS since they always had the "option" of ignoring it and using parallax.

IMO, parallax is far more viable under then new system than it ever was under the old system, which would give you zero information about a system unless you honked... which then revealed so much information that it completely destroyed any sense of discovery for me. Since each step of using the FSS requires user input, I can, and have, resolved entire systems via flyby, using the FSS to show me where to look... whether it's merely how many bodies are in the system via the honk, going into the FSS itself to show me where the orbital plane is, or using the blue blobs to highlight where to look.

Generally, though, I use a wide variety of techniques to resolve systems I find to be interesting. I use the FSS just enough to tell me if there are Interesting Things(tm) in the system, and if so, where they are. Then I fly there, flying by less interesting things along the way to resolve them. Much more fun that way, IMO.

Whilst I have been using parallax, it is really to get around the "problem" of not having a targetable sysmap available unless I spend time fiddling around trying to find radio Luxembourg

That's one of the main reasons why I like the FSS. It's flexible enough that it can be used in a wide variety of ways, and since it requires user input every step of the way, it won't spoil your sense of discovery while using it.

I'd prefer an alternative of a black body map, or any number of other possibilities that various people have come up with.

As long as that functionality is added via an optional module, I'd have no problem with that. I just don't want that added to the basic FSS. I don't want even a hint of the old soul sucking monstrosity that was the ADS back reinfecting my exploring. This exploration data sharing spoils discovery gameplay enough as it is.

 

[Burke]

Its mystery to me why it was even unplugged in the first place. We need more information on that choice, what exactly was the motivation? Also i want to know what the almost dozen explorer types they identifyed are cause i dont beleive it.

 

[sorcer3r]

Hey CMDR's

I feel bad to add to this threadnaught, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents anyways..

I think the system has some interesting concepts behind it regarding the frequency scanning etc, it's just a bit much of a enclosed 'mini-game' which constantly pulls you out of the canopy.

I initially found it fun to learn and use, and it 'feels' good/responsive in itself - until about the 30th time and a few 60+ stellar body system scans later, I found my self wondering what am I doing, am I playing Elite or poke the dots?
It's also quite click/adjustment intensive, which can be a bit of a strain on the fingers after a while.

These type of mini-games often feels 'engaging' at first is due to the age old slot-machine mechanics, where you get little plings and pop-up rewards, waiting for that small jackpot. The novelty usually wears off and becomes quite mind-numbing and gimmicky.

From a sci-fi'ish standpoint one would immediately wonder why tasks such as this has not been computerized/automated.
Cause gamification', right, ok. I definitely agree the player should have some form of interaction, even if minimal.

It's tough tho, since FSS does provide a focused way to present info like which planets to surface scan, locations detected etc. I like the idea of narrowing down your scan efforts to a few planets of interest.

Somewhat the same goes for the trick-shot DSS, firing an infinite supply of ludicrous-speed surface probes - fun, but feels quite gamey, and not very sciency. At least the mode still keeps you in the same world space, and intermitted by some regular cruise flight. I find it allright, it's something to do and not too often.

Another issue I noticed was that the constant spinning around (often at odd angles) in FSS view using VR can induce some nausea, and I usually never get motion-sick, but it's a _lot of spinning!



I feel like exploration in Elite could be SO much more involved, with large dedicated exploration modules, from your small 1 slot basic scanner to 6-7A slot sensor arrays, or bin-style Science module for analysing SRV collected soil samples etc - make it play into exploration ship builds.

Right now it mostly seems like 'exploration builds' devolves into stripping down your ship, flying with empty hardpoints - when we could be deploying high-powered sensor arrays or other neat gadgets, just sayin'

It doesn't really make sense to me that the tiniest fighter craft can provide the same exploration data value as let's say a full blown science vessel pimped out with ultra expensive state-of-the-art exploration gear.

I mean, we got lord knows how many weapon modules, 8+ modules for mining (awesome!) - but only 1 dedicated module for exploration, the DSS (and the SRV i suppose).

I really hope exploration will continue to see more love down the line, since there is a LOT of space to explore still!

Anyways, enough ramble, fly safe and have fun!

couldn't agree more

What about having a new crew member that would automatically do all the exploring tuning the knobs thingy allow those who just want to fly get on with it. It would help those who dont like the exploring part. The crew member would take a share of the cash.

I dont use crew members but wouldn't mind getting an 'observer' to tag along and get the exploration data? If he needs me to fly over to planet X666..no bother

NPC-crew would be a nice solution. Commanders who like the external minigame could still do it and have their fun.
And commanders who think that they have more important things to do in their big and huge ships would have also have at least not less fun.

 

[Alex J]

I also don't like it at all and will never use it. No arguments as they have already been mentioned. Just my opinion to join the players who don't like it at all. And since there seem to be many of them...it is obvious the new scanning model should be revised.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

1. I don't like it
2. It has to go (for everyone)

Sounds a bit entitled.
To me, this new system tells immediately whether it's worth to spend some time in a system. FSS is also much easier to use in VR, than the legacy system map.

 

[JustJon]

Having spent the last few days exploring i can say the fss is fine

land in a system with 20+ bodies, 10 of them orbiting that second star 200k ls away - in the past no way would you even consider going to the second star unless you could see elf/ww

now you can scan the lot within 5-10 minutes but it still requires effort - not flying effort more scientific scanning effort.

You can as others have said just find locations from the fss then fly to them

in addition if you want to find any poi's it is a lot more useful.

It is definitely better than honk mechanics.

 

[Enderby]

Personally, I don't regard pointing at blobs and twiddling the thing as being scientific.

Edit: Or, in any way, fun.

 

[emmpeabee]

I don't think many of the people who complain about the FSS want it to go, they just want what we had pre 3.3 and I really doubt they are being trollish, I know I am not.

As I've said before, I can't find out how to even get into the 'NEW' mode, and the old mode is well broken.Bah Humbug.