Why FSS Mode Must Go

[-VR- Max Factor]

Fair analysis. This attitude of "We want you to play OUR game like WE want you to" attitude reminds me the "Gnosis Affair" . What would it have cost them to let us jump to The Cone and then let us starve there.
But nope.
So disappointing... again.

From what I have seen most would be happy with some kind of compromise. There are precious few that are like that which is good.

As to the Gnosis affair. We have to assume they have very specific plans for that area. Hence the reason why the Gnosis jump failed. The writing was on the wall as soon as they permit locked the rest of the systems.

 

[Jon474]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round...

Oh no. We’ve woken the Guard Duck...

 

[Jon474]

There have been tons of posts from from many different people in the suggestions section from both explorers and people that want to explore and people that have given up with exploreratiin. It's not a generalisation in any shape or form. They are all valid. There have been tons of threads in this very section with ideas to make exploration better and more interactive.

Fair enough. I was being a bit mischievous, that’s all.

The points that most people are making on this thread are (in general) helpful for examining both sides of the “argument”. It’s an interesting thread.

Kind regards

Jon

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Fair enough. I was being a bit mischievous, that’s all.

The points that most people are making on this thread are (in general) helpful for examining both sides of the “argument”. It’s an interesting thread.

Kind regards

Jon

Yeah, I thought as much. There have been some interesting ideas. Personally I think if there is to be a BDS/IDS/ADS added back in, they need to be able to work with the FSS if wanted to but also be able to be used on their own if wanted to as well. Hence the reason why I would put a range limit on the ADS like the IDS and the BDS has.

 

[Riverside]

Yeah, I thought as much. There have been some interesting ideas. Personally I think if there is to be a BDS/IDS/ADS added back in, they need to be able to work with the FSS if wanted to but also be able to be used on their own if wanted to as well. Hence the reason why I would put a range limit on the ADS like the IDS and the BDS has.

Which aspects of the FSS would you want to be able to disable?

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Which aspects of the FSS would you want to be able to disable?

I don't get your meaning.

 

[Riverside]

I don't get your meaning.

Could you elaborate on your proposal?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

The thing I find most amusing is how Burke & Enderby are trying to present themselves as "Super-fans" of the game, whereas their post history shows that they have been hyper-critical of Elite: Dangerous for as long as they've been on these forums. Makes you wonder what their real motives are for retaining the old ADS!

 

[Riverside]

The thing I find most amusing is how Burke & Enderby are trying to present themselves as "Super-fans" of the game, whereas their post history shows that they have been hyper-critical of Elite: Dangerous for as long as they've been on these forums. Makes you wonder what their real motives are for retaining the old ADS!

What do you think the real motive might be?

 

[Burke]

The thing I find most amusing is how Burke & Enderby are trying to present themselves as "Super-fans" of the game, whereas their post history shows that they have been hyper-critical of Elite: Dangerous for as long as they've been on these forums. Makes you wonder what their real motives are for retaining the old ADS!

Where does my post history show that? Before the FSS i mostly posted pictures or physics or astronomy stuff. Before the FSS my posting was pretty much completely contained in exploration forum. I too am interested in your theorys, what is my hidden motivation by loudly and continuously asking for the old system map reveal to come back?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

What do you think the real motive might be?

No idea, but I know that their motive is clearly not for "Making E: D great again", given their previously held views.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

I open FSS, and immediately see a gas giant and move the indicator over it.
I then move along the orbit line to find this gas giant. But it doesn't show.
I then move the indicator around the icy bodies and start finding them.
I then eventually find a bunch and have to zoom in, and in there, I find the gas giant.

Why couldn't I just navigate the indicator to gas giant and find all he gas giants?

I believe FDev have done it this way to simplify the software design. It would make sense for the Zoom level required to find a body is the same as its system hierarchy level. So for example, if it's Body 1 A 2 B, you zoom in 4 times to find that body.

Stuff like this frustrates me. It makes no logical sense, yet Frontier insist on forcing this manure on us.

It makes sense only insofar as it simplifies the software.


Edit: Edited for clarity based on feedback.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

There’s certainly room for improvement, my chief complaints are we have to throttle down to use it, and there are some persistent VR bugs, but I have a hard time envisioning a better way to present this information that doesn’t involve something even “fiddlier” than what we have at present while still preserving the “fog of war” required for discovery gameplay.

Easy to envision a better way to make it far less "fiddlier". Ditch the 1st person view with its painfully slow pan mechanic. Replace it with a 3rd person orrery view showing the blue blobs within the orrery, with textual tid-bit "teasers" on each, perhaps including the body type squiggly lines.

Then players can point and click on the blue blobs of interest. After the first click, the FSS works similarly to how it does now. It means the entire zeroeth level zoom level (awful) UX is eliminated, along with its horrible 360 degree slow pan mechanic. QED.

Plenty of other possible improvements too - like blue blob persistence, locking to the closest blue blob (or circle) - ie. add all appropriate 21st century UI/UX QoL enhancements we all take for granted right now.


Edit: Also note using a 3rd person orrery view has the added advantage of being logically sensible wrt the software design in my previous post.

 

[Darkfyre99]

Easy to envision a better way to make it far less "fiddlier". Ditch the 1st person view with its painfully slow pan mechanic. Replace it with a 3rd person orrery view showing the blue blobs within the orrery, with textual tid-bit "teasers" on each, perhaps including the body type squiggly lines.

Then players can point and click on the blue blobs of interest. After the first click, the FSS works similarly to how it does now. It means the entire zeroeth level zoom level (awful) UX is eliminated, along with its horrible 360 degree slow pan mechanic. QED.

That's pretty much the antithesis of preserving the fog of war in my opinion. You can tell a lot about a system from an omniscient 3rd person point of view.

Plenty of other possible improvements too - like blue blob persistence, locking to the closest blue blob (or circle) - ie. add all appropriate 21st century UI/UX QoL enhancements we all take for granted right now.

Edit: Also note using a 3rd person orrery view has the added advantage of being logically sensible wrt the software design in my previous post.

I was talking mechanically, as opposed to aesthetically.

 

[sollisb]

The thing I find most amusing is how Burke & Enderby are trying to present themselves as "Super-fans" of the game, whereas their post history shows that they have been hyper-critical of Elite: Dangerous for as long as they've been on these forums. Makes you wonder what their real motives are for retaining the old ADS!

That entire paragraph is an attack on 2 posters. No-where have their actual points, claims or issues been addressed in any meaningful manner, in fact, the FSS has not even been mentioned once.

The entire post is an excuse for you to play silver-foil hat wearer and attack the posters rather than the content.

To the content of your post;
It would seem pretty obvious to even most simple minded, that they do not like the FSS. and would prefer the ADS be returned in some form, whether that be as an optional module or some other form. Some people agree and some do not.

Why do you need a motive? If we look at the motive for your post what do we see? What has Forum Rank got to do with a poster? Do you feel that your 'Elite' is in some way better than others?

TL;DR; Less of the personal attacks and more of the issues, or you know, don't post at all.

 

[Burke]

Its ok sollisb. In marcs defense, im pretty sure he posted one of his exploration journeys. The first exploration hes ever done was this year. This is, i beleive, why he misunderstands my motivations.


And yes i have complained bitterly about the engineer grind and the combat grind. Not cause i dont like the game, but because i do like it and wanted to get on with playing. And even tho i moaned i still did the damn grind, and they rewarded me with the FSS

 

[sollisb]

Its ok sollisb. In marcs defense, im pretty sure he posted one of his exploration journeys. The first exploration hes ever done was this year. This is, i beleive, why he misunderstands my motivations.


And yes i have complained bitterly about the engineer grind and the combat grind. Not cause i dont like the game, but because i do like it and wanted to get on with playing. And even tho i moaned i still did the damn grind, and they rewarded me with the FSS

We all get frustrated with bugs and mechanics. And we shout and scream, and at the end of the day little changes. We have what we have.

There is no excuse to make a post taking aim at two other posters and inferring they have hidden motives.

 

[Enderby]

The thing I find most amusing is how Burke & Enderby are trying to present themselves as "Super-fans" of the game, whereas their post history shows that they have been hyper-critical of Elite: Dangerous for as long as they've been on these forums. Makes you wonder what their real motives are for retaining the old ADS!

What an odd post.

(Burke & Enderby sounds like a firm of ancient ensian lawyers or something )

 

[[VR] Merkir]

That's pretty much the antithesis of preserving the fog of war in my opinion. You can tell a lot about a system from an omniscient 3rd person point of view.

So you're quite ok with instant and perfect system body identification, but revealing the top level system body hierarchy (only) via an incomplete orrery is not?

And "omniscient" 3rd person view I disagree with, since for any realistic discovery system this information would be obtained by either travelling or using probes perpendicular to the ecliptic.

My preferred discovery game design would leave far more mystery than the current FSS, especially compared to FSS cherry picking where there is zero mystery at all - keep jumping until you see the right squiggle, then a rote procedure to locate it. It would also leave more mystery by only providing probabilities (confidence intervals in scientific terms) for various system parameters such as body type, stats and/or kinematics, with fog of war well and truly preserved beyond the top zoom level (orrery).

I really fail to see why so many people defend the current FSS mechanic. Only have to look at the recent FDev livestream to see staff robotically perform the tedious procedure.

Ideas and a little imagination for improvement of the procedure is what we need, not defense of mediocre gameplay.

I was talking mechanically, as opposed to aesthetically.

None of my points was aesthetic. You said you couldn't envision a better way that wasn't more "fiddlier", and I gave examples how, using current day technology / UI / UX.

 

[Riverside]

No idea, but I know that their motive is clearly not for "Making E: D great again", given their previously held views.

I'm sure you have some ideas, otherwise you wouldn't have posted your ad hominem attack. What potential ulterior motive could there be?