Improvements for making piracy worth while.

[Tel Prydain]

I posted this before, but I'll go ahead and post it again here:

A good crime and punishment system should actually improve life for pirates (and assassins) as much as it improves life for traders. It should encourage gameplay, not artificially limit it. And it should impact both PvE and PvP equally.
Pirates should be flying out of hidden pirate bases… praying on those foolish enough to enter anarchy systems or sneaking into high-sec systems to pray upon traders there – and they should get good money for doing so.
Bounty hunters should hunt pirates, assassins should hunt bounty hunters… (assassins get paid more, but will have a harder time having high-quality components serviced). Pirates should be flying overheating rustbuckets with devastating weapons… a real risk, but not a full on military force.

This can be achieved with:
* Rep is changed by long-term actions, not reset by death.
* In high sec systems pirating should be nearly impossible, with high-powered security forces patrolling and jumping in within moments
* Anarchy systems should have zero repercussions for pirates, and should be deathtraps for unarmed traders (massive amounts of npc pirates if no player pirates about).
* There should be a range of security types in between
* Stations in high sec locations should shoot known pirates on sight
* Clean traders/bounty hunters should be followed when they leave from lowsec stations, hounded by pirates and assassins respectively.
* High sec stations won’t allow a very low-rep pilot to dock
* A low sec station shouldn't allow high rep pilots to dock (since high rep means you’ve been working with security forces or navies).
* Low sec stations should offer greater rewards for basic cargos – thus tempting traders to risk it
* Low sec stations have no black markets – they’re happy to buy stolen gear at full price.
* High sec stations tax you…. Unless you can smuggle cargo in… The black market should buy anything less tax, but damage rep.
* Buying anything (cargo or components) at high sec stations should cost a lot more – someone needs to pay for all that security.
* Ship components at high sec stations should have far better quality and better range, with massive mark-ups. Modifications rarer and mostly ‘clean’ or ‘efficient’ type. Insurance is good (aka normal).
* Ship components at low sec stations should be dirt cheap, but poor quality. Weapons should be prone to overheating, but devastating. Modifications should be cheap and plentiful, but mostly of the dirty/overcharged variety. Insurance should cost more (although lower ship-cost should offset that)… maybe some notorious pirates don’t get insurance at all.
* Pirate stations shouldn’t be able to (or should charge massive amounts for) repairing high-quality components and ships… encouraging pirates to fly with ‘pirate’ gear.
* High sec stations won’t repair illegally modified gear (some very high-sec stations might even fine you for using modified or bootleg gear), and charge a lot more for repairing legally modified gear.

The whole thing has to go hand-in-hand with a communication overhaul to allow a Wing Commander style communication system that allows you to hail NPC ships with basic options, such as "drop your cargo", "I surrender", "Do you need help", etc

 

[Krash]

Not the Jelly Roger, but my very best pirating ship ever. Super fast to catch the fleeing Cmdrs, bit of Punch to let them know i mean business, and PH (Seekers) to clip the drives if i get Narked by a running Cmdr.

https://s.orbis.zone/25ii

Bring that Clipper out of Dry dock and get some Pirating done.

Piracy is hard! Whenever I find a good target, it either gets away, or I end up destroying it by accident. Hats off to you real pirates.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Cross instance persistent wakes (with time decay that depended on ship type, rebuy, cargo or some other sane thing) for the wake scanner would go much farther than any other change for CMDR piracy IMO. This would help bounty hunters and "good guys" as well, especially if notoriety or bounty amount factored into time decay on wakes.

I pull randos b/c I have spent hours and hours and hours trying to stalk "real" CMDR targets. It is a horrible time investment. Current wake scanner is hard countered by cut thrusters after high wake, eliminating any chance for pursuit to instance with you and see your low wake. It can't even plot a 2 jump path if target has more jump range than you. I carry one as a convenience but it's barely even that.

So I pull a rando, comm's "yargh" or other nonsense, see what happens.

As far as NPC piracy, I will defer to others, when I tried it I just aggro'ed in anarchy, 4 pips shield tanked and went AFK after unleashing my mighty limpets. Y'aaarggh! Certainly there is room for improvement but if I want to grind credits I'll just use opals where at least I have to avoid bumping into the 'roids.

EDIT - note this is coming from PS4 console galaxy. CMDR targets are probably more plentiful for the PC pilots.

 

[rekurzion]

I made the gripe in another Pirate thread in the suggestions forum. Yea, it's easy/great money, but it's not even remotely realistic. Why is the target ship hanging around for me to milk like a cow? There really needs to be a way to disable a ship for a short period of time when certain criteria are met.

there already is something like this. each NPC rank flies and responds differently. high ranked NPC's will need to have their weapons stripped and their hull brought down significantly and sometimes their FSD and they will roll over to a dead stop (especially if you chase them to an anarchy system).

lower ranked NPC's roll over with less effort and some really weak NPC's will stop after a few taps.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

there already is something like this. each NPC rank flies and responds differently. high ranked NPC's will need to have their weapons stripped and their hull brought down significantly and sometimes their FSD and they will roll over to a dead stop (especially if you chase them to an anarchy system).

lower ranked NPC's roll over with less effort and some really weak NPC's will stop after a few taps.

I pirate NPC's frequently. You don't have to strip anything or take out any modules, regardless of rank, if you are pirating LTD's. You shoot them, then sit still. They all do the same thing, fly above, sit and shoot. If you don't move, they won't move. Hatch break and collect. Hatch break and collect. I've done this with any ship carrying LTD's. T6, Keelback, T7, Cobra, T9, Python, Krait MKII, DBX, DBS, AspX, and Asp Scout. (Haven't seen any other ships with a refinery, just these.) As soon as you shoot it, they will deploy hardpoints, turn around and come after you. So you sit still and hatch break. You can milk them like cows. So I'm not sure what you mean that they all respond differently. You can pirate them all the exact same way.

 

[rekurzion]

I pirate NPC's frequently. You don't have to strip anything or take out any modules, regardless of rank, if you are pirating LTD's. You shoot them, then sit still. They all do the same thing, fly above, sit and shoot. If you don't move, they won't move. Hatch break and collect. Hatch break and collect. I've done this with any ship carrying LTD's. T6, Keelback, T7, Cobra, T9, Python, Krait MKII, DBX, DBS, AspX, and Asp Scout. (Haven't seen any other ships with a refinery, just these.) As soon as you shoot it, they will deploy hardpoints, turn around and come after you. So you sit still and hatch break. You can milk them like cows. So I'm not sure what you mean that they all respond differently. You can pirate them all the exact same way.

no argument. i will only point out that your method results in static behavior. your method being tanking incoming fire at full stop. tickling an npc will result in them defending themselves (though every once and a while i'll get an NPC high-tail after being shot at. its rare but its happened) and at rest that will result in them being at rest also, typically aft at 11 o'clock depending.

i don't shield or hull tank so i have to rely on different methods. to each their own.

 

[Krash]

I pirate NPC's frequently. You don't have to strip anything or take out any modules, regardless of rank, if you are pirating LTD's. You shoot them, then sit still. They all do the same thing, fly above, sit and shoot. If you don't move, they won't move. Hatch break and collect. Hatch break and collect. I've done this with any ship carrying LTD's. T6, Keelback, T7, Cobra, T9, Python, Krait MKII, DBX, DBS, AspX, and Asp Scout. (Haven't seen any other ships with a refinery, just these.) As soon as you shoot it, they will deploy hardpoints, turn around and come after you. So you sit still and hatch break. You can milk them like cows. So I'm not sure what you mean that they all respond differently. You can pirate them all the exact same way.

Have you tried it lately? I just tried this and every single one of them ran away. 3 Type 7s and a Type 9, all the same behavior. I shoot them and they jump. Hardpoints never come out.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Have you tried it lately? I just tried this and every single one of them ran away. 3 Type 7s and a Type 9, all the same behavior. I shoot them and they jump. Hardpoints never come out.

Yesterday around 6pm MST/US time. I'll probably do some tonight to see if something has changed.

 

[Krash]

Yesterday around 6pm MST/US time. I'll probably do some tonight to see if something has changed.

Do you pull them or find them in a anarchy haz res?

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I initially wrote this in another thread but i do not think it was the right please....... but piracy right now i think is a bit pointless - other than for fun of course..... but i think it would be possible to do it better than it is now. for the record i generally (i did do some trading, but not much) made my money in the 1st 3 games by just bounty hunting and pirating the pirates so to speak (my head canon was that i was handing in the cargo rather than selling illegally) and this i found very profitable.

in the game now however it is not worth my time to scoop even profitable loot such is the economy as it is.

in the current frame work In my opinion the way to make - npc at least - piracy profitable is to massively reduce the pay of all missions and bounties paid on ships - at or close to launch game levels..... but keep the cost of commodities the same.

make the profit margins of the current cheap stuff much greater than it is now so even grain can bring in reasonable coin... and allow pirated goods to be sold for full price in pirate stations once you are trusted by the pirate faction.
allow "reclaimed" goods to be handed over at legal stations for a decent percentage of their value. if we want to go this route we flag them (a switch similar to report crimes against me toggle) (goods cannot be reclaimed from clean ships)

once this change goes live everyones bank balance is adjusted to a FD set new limit, reduce the costs of the most expensive ships and gear in game significantly so that relative wealth is not nerfed too much.

now all of a sudden we would have a scenario where it is definitely worth pirating and getting 100% profits on pirated goods,
bulk trade would be increidbly profitable - allowing FD to make it significantly more dangerous - and introduce docking fees and ships crew fees which could be balanced going forward (big ships have bigger docking fees and wages.....)

there will be small print to this and work to be done to tidy up but right away this would bring piracy in to being a proper viable carrer - and even bouty hunters may stop and pick up spoils

mining would now also be very profitable without having to have a 1.5million credit per ton for a few mins mining profit.

I've said many times before, but will repeat it here. I genuinely feel that an improved Notoriety System could be used to help Piracy in a number of different ways. Now we have basic NPC comms, Pirates could now have a way to intimidate NPC's into surrendering their cargo-with the success rate being mostly determined by the Notoriety of the Pirate. Likewise, Notoriety should act as a modifier to the prices you get at the Black Market (along with your reputation with the local Anarchy Faction).

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Do you pull them or find them in a anarchy haz res?

I fly around the Anarchy / Agriculture systems in supercruise and pull anything with a refinery (although I'm picky now knowing which ships carry the most LTD's). I never visit the HazRez. Just fly in supercruise scanning ships and interdict when you find your target.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

Have you tried it lately? I just tried this and every single one of them ran away. 3 Type 7s and a Type 9, all the same behavior. I shoot them and they jump. Hardpoints never come out.

Just pulled a T7, it's business as usual. Just make sure youd on't knock their shields off if I haven't mentioned it. If their shields fall, they run. Just nip them to get them to deploy hardpoints and then come to a halt.

 

[rekurzion]

Just pulled a T7, it's business as usual. Just make sure youd on't knock their shields off if I haven't mentioned it. If their shields fall, they run. Just nip them to get them to deploy hardpoints and then come to a halt.

and if you happen to knock their shields off don't fret. pack a frame shift wake scanner and some missiles. take out their weapons and bring their hull down slowly (do not destroy engines!). eventually they will come to a full stop. if not then take out their FSD.

there is always more than one way to skin a seal.

 

[Krash]

My problem is trying to pirate in the haz res. They always run. And out in supercruise I can't find any ships worth pulling. I pulled a few to test this tactic and it works, but I dont want cylinders of clothing or biowaste. I think I need to find a new system.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

My problem is trying to pirate in the haz res. They always run. And out in supercruise I can't find any ships worth pulling. I pulled a few to test this tactic and it works, but I dont want cylinders of clothing or biowaste. I think I need to find a new system.

Gotta be agriculture (anarchy to avoid law enforcemtn). Any ship with a refinery in Agriculture will have LTD's.