My Main Concern with ED

[Zenicetus]

That's what I've always said about a great many player worries concerning ED open online. It will be a massive galaxy and unless players stick to only one part, it will be rare that they will encounter another player.

But as for how the game should be played and what it will end up like. I'm afraid that will be for the players to decide. I commented on this a while ago on the Star Citizen forums. My conclusion was that MMOs are like ancient Rome - The mob rules. Or in this case "The MMOB rules"

By that, I mean the largest portion of players who prefer one playing style over another will start to dictate how the game will evolve. FD aren't going to ignore them, whoever they turn out to be, because they'll be the largest revenue source.

We'll have to wait and see which group does come out on top.

Personally, I hope it will be the hardcore, free-for-all, PvPers

You're missing one big difference here. ED is a Kickstarted game, with no publisher, and no subscription fees. Even aside from the fact that David Braben has some strong ideas about how he wants his game to run, there is the fact that everyone who kickstarted the game -- who made it even possible at all -- bought into a clear design vision as represented in the DDA's. One would hope that anyone who came in later and supported the Betas at a higher fee than the final game will sell for, also read those documents and knew what they were getting into (I know I did).

I suspect that the group that "comes out on top" will be those who supported David's vision and got it off the ground. Anything else would be a betrayal of the entire Kickstarter campaign.

If the entire focus of the game shifted 180 degrees from the developers' vision after release, just to support a vocal minority or even majority of players, it might be the first successful Kickstarter in history to make that kind of move. It would be a crass, financially-only driven move. And guess what the players who supported the Kickstarter and Betas would then do....

 

[King Hrothgar]

"What feature does open-online possess that makes it better than private groups?"

Unpredictability. NPC's are always going to do the same things, there is little variation. PC's on the other hand, you never really know what they're going to do. They might be the nicest people in the world, they might stab you in the back, they might also do something hilariously stupid for you to laugh at.

In any case, the reason I posed my question about open play is that MMO's require a certain critical mass of players. If it doesn't have that critical mass, then it turns into what is effectively a SP game. Traditionally MMO's haven't offered strong enough content to survive without a strong social aspect.

This is why I keep badgering people about why the open play should have a game mechanic enforced incentive to play. I don't mean a penalty for playing other modes, I mean a clear advantage to playing in the open mode. Enhanced bounties, mining yield, fewer npc interdictions... there are many ways to create this. Hell it could be something as simple as better insurance to make up for the fact that you'll get blown up more often.

Honestly the worst case scenario for this game in the long term is if most players end up in solo/private mode. Those players will get bored much faster there due to the predictability. And when they do, they'll hop into open only to find it a barren wasteland since it was never fully supported. And that will be the end of the game. It needs a thriving open environment to last.

 

[Hermit]

It would be a crass, financially-only driven move.

Those words seem to describe Star Citizen

But we must remember that FD have to make money, so they may well have to go with the majority (whoever they may be).

 

[Robert Maynard]

Unpredictability. NPC's are always going to do the same things, there is little variation. PC's on the other hand, you never really know what they're going to do. They might be the nicest people in the world, they might stab you in the back, they might also do something hilariously stupid for you to laugh at.

While PvP players crave the unpredictability of human opponents, I doubt that this would be a unique selling point (in a positive sense) for players less inclined to PvP.

This is why I keep badgering people about why the open play should have a game mechanic enforced incentive to play. I don't mean a penalty for playing other modes, I mean a clear advantage to playing in the open mode. Enhanced bounties, mining yield, fewer npc interdictions... there are many ways to create this. Hell it could be something as simple as better insurance to make up for the fact that you'll get blown up more often.

As was pointed out earlier - there has already been a lengthy thread on benefits for playing open-online / penalties for playing solo-online / private groups.

Honestly the worst case scenario for this game in the long term is if most players end up in solo/private mode. Those players will get bored much faster there due to the predictability. And when they do, they'll hop into open only to find it a barren wasteland since it was never fully supported. And that will be the end of the game. It needs a thriving open environment to last.

Bottom line - if PvP players end up affecting gameplay in open-online with their preferred play-style to such an extent that it is too unpleasant for other players to consider remaining then they only have themselves to blame....

 

[King Hrothgar]

I'd put the blame on poor game design/implementation if it happens. You really can't blame the players for playing the game as they wish.

 

[Jorlin]

I'd put the blame on poor game design/implementation if it happens. You really can't blame the players for playing the game as they wish.

and how it is "poor game design" if it enables the players to playing the game as they wish?

 

[Studders86]

Look how many people play DayZ. I play it and im rubbish at the PvP aspect, the buzz of that game is the risk that i could at any time be attacked/killed by another playing making the game wayyyy better than if it was just predictable NPC's chasing you down.

Its also just as awesome when you come across a player and you have no idea whats going to happen. If that player is friendly its a great feeling and just improves the gameplay. If he isnt then its almost like the wild west! Draw! Which also improves the gameplay.

This mechanic doesn't exist with NPC;s and its one of the most attractive aspects of DayZ

 

[Jorlin]

Look how many people play DayZ. I play it and im rubbish at the PvP aspect, the buzz of that game is the risk that i could at any time be attacked/killed by another playing making the game wayyyy better than if it was just predictable NPC's chasing you down.

Its also just as awesome when you come across a player and you have no idea whats going to happen. If that player is friendly its a great feeling and just improves the gameplay.

This mechanic doesn't exist with NPC;s and its one of the most attractive aspects of DayZ

You still looking at it from YOUR perspective.
You want challenge, risk, adrenaline...
Now there are people that play just to relax...and don't want to be victim of your adrenaline rush...

It's really as simple as that.
Some people like to jump out of airplanes without the plane burning...
Others like to read a good Book.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Bottom line - if PvP players end up affecting gameplay in open-online with their preferred play-style to such an extent that it is too unpleasant for other players to consider remaining then they only have themselves to blame....

That's one of the issues I have with the system we get.

If I want to make money (initially) the most secure and predictable way is to grind the trade routes (may probably change, but I really doubt it).

My purpose to play the game at that point is to make money. To minimize the risk, I'll do it solo online as there's no single reason to do it in open online - more lag, more conncection issues, risk of other Humans).

If there was a different savegame for the characters, I would play open online 100% of the time.

As it is now, if you see me in a a non-combat geared ship in open online, I'm either drunk and misclicked, I'm rich, bored with the game and about to quit or it's a trap.

Open online will end up in a 100% hunter population, I'm afraid.

 

[Vandaahl]

I'd put the blame on poor game design/implementation if it happens. You really can't blame the players for playing the game as they wish.

This is almost signature worthy. You just shot all your previous arguments through their knees.

 

[Adept]

I'd put the blame on poor game design/implementation if it happens. You really can't blame the players for playing the game as they wish.

They should take responsibility. If they are no fun to play with, and are annoying enough people will move to private groups. That is nobody's fault but the people who are making things unpleasant. Nobody is entitled to other people's time. If it's more fun to play in the open group, people will play there. It a subset of players "playing the game as they want" make it unpleasant or annoying, people will move to private groups. Any people repeatedly ganking people for fun, and shouting abuse at them over the voice char / text will only have themselves to blame if people decide not to play with them.

Personally I think those people form a small fraction of the playerbase, and Frontier will benefit a lot from keeping them on a short leash so the majority of gamers will find the Open group engaging and fun.

 

[Herik]

What difference does Open give you versus Solo today, what do you expect to get from it in the future, and what makes you decide between one or the other?

Well for me it will be mostly solo-online; 'moving out to the deep black' and after a time working my way back to the ambiance of populated space in the 'all group', (assuming the all group allows me to play my game). Of course trading, mining, and exploring as and when I choose. This will be my game.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Open online will end up in a 100% hunter population, I'm afraid.

Possibly, but not for ever as I doubt that those craving a PvP adrenaline rush will stick around when all that they encounter for days on end are NPCs (apart from each other, of course).

 

[Zvanya]

This is why I keep badgering people about why the open play should have a game mechanic enforced incentive to play. I don't mean a penalty for playing other modes, I mean a clear advantage to playing in the open mode.

I regard this as a completely fallacious argument. A penalty or punishment isn't always something negative imposed, it can be a reward that is withheld. If you reward people for playing in open that IS penalizing people for playing solo. There was a mega multi page thread about "encouraging" people to play in open a month ago. Did you miss it? EDIT: Oops never mind. It appears you weren't here yet.

I doubt that those craving a PvP adrenaline rush will stick around when all that they encounter for days on end are NPCs (apart from each other, of course).

That's my prediction too. The population of open play will gradually increase as the people who wanted EvE with joysticks move away, while other demographics steadily increase.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Possibly, but not for ever as I doubt that those craving a PvP adrenaline rush will stick around when all that they encounter for days on end are NPCs (apart from each other, of course).

Well - in a normal Lotka-Volterra equation, that would work However, this is the internet, FD are a business and it will probably lead to a lower population than a more coherent system.

With different saves, you'd see me flying type IXs with 440 tons of gold on board in all open - not going to happen with EDs system - it would simply be illogical to do that.

 

[Studders86]

You still looking at it from YOUR perspective.
You want challenge, risk, adrenaline...
Now there are people that play just to relax...and don't want to be victim of your adrenaline rush...

It's really as simple as that.
Some people like to jump out of airplanes without the plane burning...
Others like to read a good Book.

Erm, you quoted me saying "Look how many people play DayZ."

Thats not looking at it from MY perspective at all. Thats looking at how popular a mod has become (that has even evolved into a standalone) from this kind of freedom online.

If you want to play to relax then there are 2 options for this. Solo and Private.

If you want to play online with lots of players then you have to accept the risks that come with that.

Possibly, but not for ever as I doubt that those craving a PvP adrenaline rush will stick around when all that they encounter for days on end are NPCs (apart from each other, of course).

The adrenaline rush for me comes from seeing a player when i dont expect it, be it days or weeks apart. If players are everywhere all the time then i would be on the same side of the fence as you are. As it stands, the galaxy is going to be that huge its not even going to be a problem. Those who just want PvE wont even notice that they are on an MMO.

In fact, surely your statement contradicts itself. If your fighting the case you dont want PvP but you dont think it will be a problem anyway....then whats the problem?

 

[Adept]

Well - in a normal Lotka-Voltera equation, that would work However, this is the internet, FD are a business and it will probably lead to a lower population than a more coherent system.

With different saves, you'd see me flying type IXs with 440 tons of gold on board in all open - not going to happen with EDs system - it would simply be illogical to do that.

That sounds like you think playing a trader in the open group is no fun, and the interaction with player pirates gives nothing to the enjoyment of a trader. It's quite illuminating.

I, on the other hand may well be piloting a space cow. Preferably with some friends along to mitigate the risk and to share in the profits. And guess what? It's exactly the same if I were to play in a group.

A lot of PvP focused players want traders flying their fat transports in Open play, while at the same time protesting thar they would never do it themselves. Clearly you don't think that interacting with human pirates is in any way fun for the mark. Interesting.

 

[Zvanya]

That sounds like you think playing a trader in the open group is no fun, and the interaction with player pirates gives nothing to the enjoyment of a trader. It's quite illuminating.

A lot of PvP focused players want traders flying their fat transports in Open play, while at the same time protesting thar they would never do it themselves. Clearly you don't think that interacting with human pirates is in any way fun for the mark. Interesting.

Excellent points sir! +1

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

That sounds like you think playing a trader in the open group is no fun, and the interaction with player pirates gives nothing to the enjoyment of a trader. It's quite illuminating.

I, on the other hand may well be piloting a space cow. Preferably with some friends along to mitigate the risk and to share in the profits. And guess what? It's exactly the same if I were to play in a group.

A lot of PvP focused players want traders flying their fat transports in Open play, while at the same time protesting thar they would never do it themselves. Clearly you don't think that interacting with human pirates is in any way fun for the mark. Interesting.

I remember you - you're the guy that assumed I was associated with goonswarm for barely mentioning Eve and neg-repped me for it - interesting.

As you might be surprised to hear, I have never fired a single shot at another human player since I've played (opening of premium beta).

I guess that makes me quite a badass PVPer and evil Griefer.

I want an intense and immersive multiplayer experience from this game. But unless I'm really bored with the game, I wont do anything entirely unreasonable like flying masses of valuable cargo around in open online if I can just bypass the system.

Not being able to do it would be more fun, but at this state, it's illogical.

Maybe you should read this.

 

[Studders86]

Straying away from the pirating traders PvP aspect, imagine a scenario where PvP was disabled or even a duel mechanic and your aligned with federation or empire.

You see on the galaxy map a player is scanning a system for the exploration part of the career, i, being a pirate or aligned with the opposite faction, go to investigate. I see you scanning and i want to shoot you down so you cant get back with the data but when i try to i have to invite you to duel - in which that player will probably decline - or pvp is disabled completely. Rendering that player safe to scan the whole system without risk.

It just doesnt work without PvP being enabled.

Quoted from the newsletter:

Here comes the crime bit: to claim the reward from a scanned planet or moon, players will need to return their data to a Federation or Imperial planet with a data claim registration facility. This mean competing explorers can attack each other to be first back with their information, and even lets pirates attempt to steal the data from an exploration ship.

You have just just turned this into a race that only allows players who are scanning to take part and pirates are rendered useless.

Surely you can see the benefits of PvP?