News Important Community Update (01/03)

[willisit]

I'm very confused after reading everyone's thoughts. On the one hand, I feel like Frontier have done well enough; I've gotten 1000 hours out of the game so far, I've enjoyed it and I continue to look forward to more.

That said, I also agree that recent threads, promises, live-streams, events etc.. have told a different story. Maybe I've been burnt before, maybe I really don't care as much as I think I do, but with the "next big thing" being 18 months away, I'm just not that worried. Yet, reading this, I also feel I should be. Hmm.

Gaming and development has definitely changed over the years. I think Frontier are maybe being a little naive (as much as I am) with how that is communicated, both now and back in the KS days. Certainly I think we all expected the game development to continue over the years, and be farther along by now - and the expectations given TO us by Frontier would suggest that (right or wrong) we'd have legs and atmospheres in the game.

I'm not sure I ever expected that, but I'd certainly love it. ED is my go-to game. I love it, I really really do.

So now I'm worried that the 18 month time frame may be wrong, and the content won't be there. Carriers, Ice worlds... darn. Plus, I play in VR (I mean, it's wonderful), and that looks in jeapardy too if legs appear.

All very confusing.

 

[Armankessilon]

There must be some reason why Frontier are soo secretive about everything these days, why is this so?

My guesses are:
1. They're still not working on it, nothing done yet, nothing in progress. So they can't tell anything
2. They don't know if they could do something they might announce. They don't have enough free competent people to promise something.

Both thoughts are dark and depressive, but I don't see another reasons to act like this.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

. Plus, I play in VR (I mean, it's wonderful), and that looks in jeapardy too if legs appear.

All very confusing.

legs does not NEED to put VR under threat.

there are lots of ways to manage FPS in VR, and it can be done in a way to be totally fair to people not in VR as well. Teleport is i am sure you will agree pretty much out but "From Other Suns" as well as the fan made Doom 3 VR mod shows a really good way of doing 1st person games in VR **As an option** for those without the stomach for full on 1st person in VR.

i say as an option because full on locomotion must surely be an option as well.

The way it works is the camera is static but your character walks out of himself and then when you stop the view changes. This may sound a bit rubbish, and it isnt as good as full on 1st person, but it is not bad, gives zero sickness and importantly does not spoil it for players playing on a screen. (over all the person in VR using this mode would be at a slight disadvantage, but then playing in VR imo is about the immersion and not about advantages or not.

if we have full on EVA in space well then you just have to look to lone echo. that nails space EVA and there is no need for FD to reinvent the wheel there either, just clone that!!!,

 

[Skizomeuh]

Yes Chris shows... Because that's what brings him money so they can keep struggling getting things done crippled tier-0.

Don't worry those who pay FDEV's employees salaries know exactly what they do. WE are not.

 

[MadKam]

First of all " I LOVE ELITE "
But.....
This announcement is very dissappointing. 1.5 years to wait for more unkept promisses. The game in its current state is a drag to come back into and play it on a daily/weekly basis as it is. Its bad enough that you guys have taken all the problems of whats happening on earth in past and present times and scaled it up and made a galaxy event with us humans dominating the entire galaxy. With a bit of common sense and soooo many systems out there im pretty sure there are more than THARGOIDS out there and would of made the game better to encounter other species as THARGOIDS(Still trying to figure out what part of humanitys past or present thay represent as the game is about war/power amongst humans only). If humanity was to develop so much in the future surely they would stop killing each other and have other interests.
Why am I still playing the game then??
Because like most Elite players we love space. The idea of being able to go places not possible to us right now is great and the game has so much potential to be soooo much more than what it actually is right now. So the answers is basically HOPE. Hope that the game finds the right direction and gives us a more realistic and better future playing experience.
I know I will come across negative to most but I still would like to thank all involved as I still appriciate the effort and time given to such game.

 

[willisit]

legs does not NEED to put VR under threat.

there are lots of ways to manage FPS in VR, and it can be done in a way to be totally fair to people not in VR as well. Teleport is i am sure you will agree pretty much out but "From Other Suns" as well as the fan made Doom 3 VR mod shows a really good way of doing 1st person games in VR **As an option** for those without the stomach for full on 1st person in VR.

i say as an option because full on locomotion must surely be an option as well.

The way it works is the camera is static but your character walks out of himself and then when you stop the view changes. This may sound a bit rubbish, and it isnt as good as full on 1st person, but it is not bad, gives zero sickness and importantly does not spoil it for players playing on a screen. (over all the person in VR using this mode would be at a slight disadvantage, but then playing in VR imo is about the immersion and not about advantages or not.

if we have full on EVA in space well then you just have to look to lone echo. that nails space EVA and there is no need for FD to reinvent the wheel there either, just clone that!!!,

Totally agree, but as the VR thread goes, it's whether FDev continue developing those things with VR in mind, or whether they drop it for traditonal controls in 2D and VR "goes away". Unfortunately we don't know what's coming, even my rumour, let alone what will weather the transitions/time ahead. ED is a VR showcase, so I will watch with interest.

 

[Stinja]

We all know as players and consumers, that ED is vapor. It will never reside on my bookshelf like the hundreds of physical games I own. I couldn't play it in twenty years even if I kept my console or computer, because Frontier will support it as long as they can, but no longer. Yet knowing that, I've given Frontier well over 400 USD because; ED is one of the few games that comes along once every ten years or so. It's one of the best games I've ever played, and I've been at this over 40 years.

For what it's worth, there is the post by Sir David Braben OBE that the game would be playable offline if the servers were to ever be taken ever go down:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60284&page=14&p=1024593&highlight=#post1024593

We have no intention of taking the servers down, but I understand what you are getting at. We plan to archive the game from time to time (ie matching client and servers and game world state), and would release such an archive if the servers were to come down. That would also address the issue of how you preserve an online game for the future, from the whole 'retro' perspective.

So vague hope if that message is kept to.

 

[Winterwalker]

There must be some reason why Frontier are soo secretive about everything these days, why is this so?

Apart from the fact it's been company policy since like forever?

There has been one exception actually, between the kickstarter and game release there were 'some' sneak peeks. These took the form of design element screenshots with no explanation with them and I think that's the sort of content people want between now and 4.0. The situation is different now though, we're already familiar with ED's aesthetic and now the game is on, similar screenies are actually spoilers.

Given the lead time to 4.0 (about 18 months?) I don't think now is the time to start giving UI peeks or even gameplay ones, partly because commercially FDev are bound to want to build interest towards the release date, and it's way way early for that. Releasing gameplay footage would probably cause the usual biowaste storm of half baked opinions on what people have seen, hysterics that die down pretty quickly and then for it to dawn that there's still 17 months until 4.0 .. and FD have shot their bolt.

Not a good idea. FD's policy is tried, tested and a mature approach that does have their commercial interest at heart but in the long ter,m commercial success is better for the game than any temporary downs or transient ups in the steam charts will ever be.

 

[Factabulous]

The track record around here of people being shown a sneak peek (say, ice planet rework), and then crying if it doesn't make the final release, saying that promises have been broken, doesn't help.

 

[zimms]

Come on Factabulous, you're not being fair.

There's a difference between a sneak peek of some artwork and an announcement of "this is whats coming in the Q4 update".

And in the end the Q4 update didn't contain a lower quality approximation of the design goal, but nothing at all in that regard. I get that plans change and that maybe this was for the best of the game in the long term, but players being disappointed about it is perfectly valid.

 

[Livyathan]

good for you...... but just because you got the game on the cheap does not mean everyone else did.

Game plus LEP at RRP was what, at a guess around £150

£155. £35 for pre-order of ED + £120 for LEP.

If I'm honest, I feel deflated by Fridays announcement.

 

[NeilF]

£155. £35 for pre-order of ED + £120 for LEP.

If I'm honest, I feel deflated by Fridays announcement.

I was a kick starter backer. I feel deflated that most likely now, by the time any content of consequence comes out (assuming that's as soon as end of play 2020) I will most likely just be "over" ED.

But, if I take the hours I played in it, and consider that, then it was definately value for money... So ultimately I can't complain.

HOWEVER, even though I can't complain, it doesn't stop me ending with a feeling of huge missed opportunities...

 

[Factabulous]

disappointed about it is perfectly valid.

Disappointed is fine, but just look up this thread - rage, calling fdev liars, you know - the usual. Roadmaps are predictions, not promises. Be upset by all means, but calling them liars?

Unless you have a link for them promising icy planet changes months before? Then I guess I'll need to get my pitchfork out, but until then ...

 

[Livyathan]

I was a kick starter backer. I feel deflated that most likely now, by the time any content of consequence comes out (assuming that's as soon as end of play 2020) I will most likely just be "over" ED.

But, if I take the hours I played in it, and consider that, then it was definately value for money... So ultimately I can't complain.

HOWEVER, even though I can't complain, it doesn't stop me ending with a feeling of huge missed opportunities...

That's pretty much how I feel to be honest.

I don't actually want Bobble-Heads or Paint Jobs, I just want something to spur me on and keep me playing. The development of the game just seems to have dragged since Horizons was released.

 

[NeilF]

Disappointed is fine, but just look up this thread - rage, calling fdev liars, you know - the usual. Roadmaps are predictions, not promises. Be upset by all means, but calling them liars?

Unless you have a link for them promising icy planet changes months before? Then I guess I'll need to get my pitchfork out, but until then ...

True, the rage is odd...

Don't forget to add Fleet Carrier to this list of stuff supposedly on the plan, and then months before its release, its now not on the plan for release.

But fpr me, this ultimately all gives a rather unsettling view, along with the past 2-3yrs of generation development, that there's never really been solid a long term development in place as suggested (ie: a significant number of developers ploughing ahead with bar raising content for year to come), but it's instead very hand to mouth. ie: Even this latest 18-24month new development smells of having only just really getting under way end of last year...

 

[Maro-Val]

Come on Factabulous, you're not being fair.

There's a difference between a sneak peek of some artwork and an announcement of "this is whats coming in the Q4 update".

And in the end the Q4 update didn't contain a lower quality approximation of the design goal, but nothing at all in that regard. I get that plans change and that maybe this was for the best of the game in the long term, but players being disappointed about it is perfectly valid.

He and others are constantly blaming the community, the same people that keep this game alive, and they forget the company's track record, which in the end, its the company that takes all the calls and makes absolute no sense, to blame the customers all the time.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Disappointed is fine, but just look up this thread - rage, calling fdev liars, you know - the usual. Roadmaps are predictions, not promises. Be upset by all means, but calling them liars?

Unless you have a link for them promising icy planet changes months before? Then I guess I'll need to get my pitchfork out, but until then ...

I agree some people are more angry than they should be..... BUT ED (let me just say right now i think it is a very good game, for me that is a given, it is why i am still here, it is still THE shining example of a space game in VR) but still that aside ED has been a long list of missed deadlines and cut features and this has been happening for the life of the game.

christ, the whole beyond season was essentially an apology because Horizons was so poorly fleshed out, and that was after itself over ran by 12 months... So they revealed Beyond and showed us the ice planet they were aiming for as an example of the improved tech coming 12 months later.

And my gut feeling (which could be wrong) is this was only ever pie in the sky. I am not raging but it is sad when the main hook to encourage us to "hang in there for another 12 months" is cut right on the cusp of the 12 months.
and lets be honest... this announcement of the new and exciting thing in 18months+ time....... what is to say we dont hang in there for 18 months only for it to be reprioritised again?

FD had a hell of a lot of good faith earned when they pitched the ED KSer but they have been burning through it hard imo for the last few years.

I am still here, because the core game is still decent imo.......... but lets not change history and make out that anything FD said was all pie in the sky thinking and Elite fans reading too much into it in their own head space.

 

[Maro-Val]

I agree some people are more angry than they should be..... BUT ED (let me just say right now i think it is a very good game, for me that is a given, it is why i am still here, it is still THE shining example of a space game in VR) but still that aside ED has been a long list of missed deadlines and cut features and this has been happening for the life of the game.

christ, the whole beyond season was essentially an apology because Horizons was so poorly fleshed out, and that was after itself over ran by 12 months... So they revealed Beyond and showed us the ice planet they were aiming for as an example of the improved tech coming 12 months later.

And my gut feeling (which could be wrong) is this was only ever pie in the sky. I am not raging but it is sad when the main hook to encourage us to "hang in their for another 12 months" is cut right on the cusp of the 12 months.

and lets be honest... this announcement of the new and exciting thing in 18months+ time....... what is to say we dont hang in there for 18 months only for it to be reprioritised again?

FD had a hell of a lot of good faith earned when they pitched the ED KSer but they have been burning through it hard imo for the last few years.

I am still here, because the core game is still decent imo.......... but lets not change history and make out that anything FD said was all pie in the sky thinking and Elite fans reading too much into it in their own head space.

One of the best posts i 've seen. Completelly agreed cmdr.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I agree some people are more angry than they should be..... BUT ED (let me just say right now i think it is a very good game, for me that is a given, it is why i am still here, it is still THE shining example of a space game in VR) but still that aside ED has been a long list of missed deadlines and cut features and this has been happening for the life of the game.

christ, the whole beyond season was essentially an apology because Horizons was so poorly fleshed out, and that was after itself over ran by 12 months... So they revealed Beyond and showed us the ice planet they were aiming for as an example of the improved tech coming 12 months later.

And my gut feeling (which could be wrong) is this was only ever pie in the sky. I am not raging but it is sad when the main hook to encourage us to "hang in their for another 12 months" is cut right on the cusp of the 12 months.

and lets be honest... this announcement of the new and exciting thing in 18months+ time....... what is to say we dont hang in there for 18 months only for it to be reprioritised again?

FD had a hell of a lot of good faith earned when they pitched the ED KSer but they have been burning through it hard imo for the last few years.

I am still here, because the core game is still decent imo.......... but lets not change history and make out that anything FD said was all pie in the sky thinking and Elite fans reading too much into it in their own head space.

I don't need to hang in there for 18 months. Neither does anyone else. We are not paying a subscription so there is no reason to continue playing. I play because I am enjoying myself even with the games issues. I would continue to play the game even if there were no expansions coming until I begin to get bored, but as that seems to not be happening and can't see it happening anytime soon, it's all fine to me. People can stop playing and come back when the new Era comes out.

I have a feelng that it is going to change many aspects of the game as well as add a great many new things.

Obviously I would like the expansion earlier, but it isn't the end of the world and I am sure that when it gets released it will make the game better in some way, just like all the other updates have done, even when the update hasn't been perfect.

 

[rootsrat]

He and others are constantly blaming the community, the same people that keep this game alive, and they forget the company's track record, which in the end, its the company that takes all the calls and makes absolute no sense, to blame the customers all the time.

I agree some people are more angry than they should be..... BUT ED (let me just say right now i think it is a very good game, for me that is a given, it is why i am still here, it is still THE shining example of a space game in VR) but still that aside ED has been a long list of missed deadlines and cut features and this has been happening for the life of the game.

christ, the whole beyond season was essentially an apology because Horizons was so poorly fleshed out, and that was after itself over ran by 12 months... So they revealed Beyond and showed us the ice planet they were aiming for as an example of the improved tech coming 12 months later.

And my gut feeling (which could be wrong) is this was only ever pie in the sky. I am not raging but it is sad when the main hook to encourage us to "hang in their for another 12 months" is cut right on the cusp of the 12 months.

and lets be honest... this announcement of the new and exciting thing in 18months+ time....... what is to say we dont hang in there for 18 months only for it to be reprioritised again?

FD had a hell of a lot of good faith earned when they pitched the ED KSer but they have been burning through it hard imo for the last few years.

I am still here, because the core game is still decent imo.......... but lets not change history and make out that anything FD said was all pie in the sky thinking and Elite fans reading too much into it in their own head space.

It really is a bit of both.

I suspect FDEV would perhaps be more open in their communications, if not for the community members that keep insulting them and keep throwing tantrums on the forums and social media.

On the other hand what Mike said is also a valid point. Beyond was advertised as a year of free updates, to expand upon the existing features and fix some of the longer term bugs, because they realised the game needs that badly and charging money for it would be unfair to customers. Or something along these lines, I can't find the exact words being used. But yeah, my impression also is that it was sold to us as a kind of an apology for what happened with Horizons season.

Unfortunately, we all know how it ended. Plus the fact that IMO a lot of the stuff was not "expanding upon existing", but instead adding more content, much of which was either at the infamous placeholder state or bugged as hell. Keeping tight-lipped didn't help the situation, and then cutting some of the things that A LOT of the players were eagerly waiting for at the very last minute was another unfortunate move, that has only escalated the frustration of the community.

However some of the reactions within the said community didn't really help at all.

So while FDEV are not saints here and as Mike said, they've lost a lot of trust and good faith, the community is also to blame for the current situation - or at least part of it.

Of course this is just like my opinion man.