Personally I don't begrudge anyone who can go to support with a story and get their stuff back. No such thing as a ganker in a cut-throat galaxy.
Crime & Punishment feature useless?
- Thread starter Martind Forlon
- Start date
Personally I don't begrudge anyone who can go to support with a story and get their stuff back. No such thing as a ganker in a cut-throat galaxy.
Deleted member 115407
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For you - because I guess you have principles.
But for much of the community, getting support to restore your ship was all fine and dandy for years. Even the DW2 admins were encouraging players to do it if they were destroyed while on the expedition.
Of course, now that it's a ganker asking for a restore, it's a big problem and FD are wrong for even considering it.
Like Feros said - "gankas bad".
Lol sure ya do. Cuz gankas bad and FDev needs to do something about them right now! And also because many players don't understand the actual mechanics of the game. Same reasons as always.
Ganka manz bad, PvE-manz gud, no support shippy ship for bads ganka manz. Support shippy ship for PvE manz ok.
You must have me on your ignore list, since I hit the big picture right between the eyes.
Granted, I didn't mention "griefer" or "PvP" because I don't even think about C&P in this limited context. C&P is C&P, and it's crap to me. I'm speaking mostly as a criminal in certain systems, though I like to think of myself more of a vigilante, like Batman! And no, I don't want my life as a criminal to be easy (it's already too easy), I just want a C&P system that makes sense and has teeth (but not magical ATR teeth).
Roger that comrade. Thug life should feel thug. Right now C&P makes as much sense as a soup sandwich.
Unless it's as a result of a bug I think the idea of asking support to restore your ship for any reason makes much of the gameplay meaningless anyway. I do think that asking for a restore when the local station doesn't have an authority contact is fair when anyone had a restore because they flew without rebuy. If this is a thing maybe I should ask for the 50 million rebuy back after I drank a bottle of wine and crashed into a white dwarf whilst in the jet cone (wish I'd recorded it actually).
I honestly don't know where to start with what I don't like about C&P. I'm going to just agree that the '&P' part is missing. Until something is done about any punishment that doesn't involve murder being wiped by half an hour void opal mining I don't see the point in any fines or bounties.
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Pretty much says it all
No, its much easier to earn 400M credits than it is to earn a 400M bounty ganking players. I'm just suggestion that there be some actual consequence for people who entertain themselves by acting like nutcases online.
Good fences make good neighbours.
Unfortunately ours are made of string and good intentions.
Unfortunately ours are made of string and good intentions.
Deleted member 38366
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I'm quite confident almost noone has any issues with PvP. Something that has become exceedingly rare and at best appears in-game as PvP Piracy, as part of some PowerPlay conflicts and the oddball Conflict Zone CG.
GvP however is what ELITE has been encouraging and empowering ever since, so that's what we've been dealing with since years. That's the unresolved core issue.
That's what this Game has attracted and nourished since 4 years.
Other publishers were a whole lot smarter and recognized & designed this issue right into their core concepts from the start.
Why Frontier went fully against all common sense, established MMO/Multiplayer design rules, other MultiPlayer experiences (after all the problem is very old and well-known) while accepting its product&revenue suffering significant damage... that's beyond me.
"Not too bright" being an overly polite theory amongst many.
PS.
All discussion aside, at this point I strongly believe it's way too late already. There's virtually no way to recoup and undo the damage done. It's irreversible.
And if the 2020 Update suddenly brings a true, functional, robust and useful C&P System along is anyone's guess. Wouldn't hold my breath.
The GM has failed in that respect, miserably. Not once, not twice - but three times now.
Once is an accident. Twice could be neglect, incompetence, ignorance or hostile intent. Three times though? That's fully intentional and a hostile act.
To me that means they want, embrace and fully support limitless and mindless Ganking, anytime, anywhere.
Back in early 2015, when the fallout started hitting for the 1st time and discussions ran hot on a daily basis, Michael Brookes (after months of deafening silence) once made his infamous statement : It was a Design Decision.
Now, 4 years later... nothing has changed. Go figure. In a sense, they possibly always intended to botch it, no matter how high the price.
Why? Only they know.
I got a feeling they'd rather let the Game continue to take damage than admitting that capital, catastrophic mistake.
Let's just hope the Gankers all run 5+ Accounts and purchase hundreds of Cosmetics for each account to make up for the losses by CMDRs that already left and that we'll never see again using Game nor Store, no matter that the next Update brings along.
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That's just a guess. No one here has any real proof it's a problem except FDev. Their information should be pretty clear; run a few aggregate functions to determine how likely a player who is killed early in their career is to quit early versus one who is not. I expect they'd have taken it a bit more seriously had such investigations produced anything conclusive. Instead, the problems are likely more subtle, and harder to fix. There are numerous other possible reasons besides ganking.
- Steep learning curve with poor (at best) training. I bet more players fail their landings than get ganked. I've pulled seals in eravate who literally don't know how to wake, how to dock, barely anything. Once I spent an hour teaching one such poor fellow. I doubt it would have made much difference if I had just melted him. Some folks needs their hands held at first, but FDev throws them in the deep end and tells them to swim.
- Utter lack of an engaging setting or plot. Boilerplate procgen at every term resulting in nonsensical things like Aisling aligned factions requesting imperial slaves. Flying thousands of lightyears for 5 small messages of "plot" (e.g. Davs hope or Jameson's crashed conda) equivalent to the little bits of color fallout 4 throws at you every 10 minutes (and I don't even consider FO4 having a very "good" plot).
- How about powerplay? It was the first feature I was attracted to and it makes no sense whatsoever. It is among the poorest designed subgames I've ever seen in decades of gaming. I really wanted to be on a team even before I realized team Ganker was best team. The fact is the FDev promoted teams in this game absolutely suck.
- Non consensual PvE in abundance. Players realizing they have to repeat mindless chores over and over to unlock so many fun things or to be competitive. Complex and opaque currency systems that make no sense whatsoever and can't be managed aside from 3rd party tools. Players with thousands of hours in game utterly stumped by changes to these systems each release - what's a newbie to do? It all sounds like work - not fun.
Ganking is long down the list of problems for player retention. People just like to lash out at what they resent and blame it for woes real or imagined.
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Why exactly is it all good? There are numerous verifiable reports of much larger rebuy+datalosses being waived by FDev. Are those not a problem for you due to the lack of a wanted flag? How about for the fined flag? Can the consequences of that be harmlessly ignored?
Strange. The consequences death while wanted are explicitly laid out. Penalties to be paid at rebuy. So are the consequences for death while carrying explo data. Loss of explo data. All are within allowed gameplay. Why is one set of consequences OK to waive?
I agree it should not have been waived, but for very different reasons. I suspect your reasons wouldn't lead to fair outcomes in all cases.
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Honestly, I think the only real punishment that would still make the game fun for all parties involved is that "high notoriety" will trigger a tracker beacon that will somehow be attached to your ship to make you easy to track as a wanted CMDR.
As a consequence of being a wanted criminal in the ED universe all CMDRS and law enforcement AI will know where you are, including when you are logged in but with the CAVEAT of it only being active whenever you are in a system that has a starport/base or is under some ruling faction or have been spotted by another ship.
You as a consequence of the criminal activity of murder can then be hunted by other bounty hunting CMDRs. Although, AI bounty hunters should have some limited or time delayed power so it doesn't become just an annoying loop.
Adding this feature for C&P would also improve the PP combat and add more content.
Making punishment too harsh by AI or inconvenience will kill the crime gaming part of the game.
Becoming a target for other CMDR's should make it fun to play, similar to a hide and seek game where you can keep moving and playing.
I think the game's architecture could accommodate for this with some work and the only issue would be the usual instancing issues.
Combat logging is a a win for the one who has forced the other to drop out of a fight and should just be announced automatically over the comms as a shame tactic and possibly as a permanent record on the combat logger's own log.
As a consequence of being a wanted criminal in the ED universe all CMDRS and law enforcement AI will know where you are, including when you are logged in but with the CAVEAT of it only being active whenever you are in a system that has a starport/base or is under some ruling faction or have been spotted by another ship.
You as a consequence of the criminal activity of murder can then be hunted by other bounty hunting CMDRs. Although, AI bounty hunters should have some limited or time delayed power so it doesn't become just an annoying loop.
Adding this feature for C&P would also improve the PP combat and add more content.
Making punishment too harsh by AI or inconvenience will kill the crime gaming part of the game.
Becoming a target for other CMDR's should make it fun to play, similar to a hide and seek game where you can keep moving and playing.
I think the game's architecture could accommodate for this with some work and the only issue would be the usual instancing issues.
Combat logging is a a win for the one who has forced the other to drop out of a fight and should just be announced automatically over the comms as a shame tactic and possibly as a permanent record on the combat logger's own log.
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Pinning a beacon on notoriety is just a bandaid. It doesn't address the shortcomings in piracy or ability to intercept PP haulers (not that this is ever done in open, but theoretically). It also is useless because notoriety can be sat out in solo docked somewhere.
A single, more fundamental changes goes much further. Make all wakes persistent and cross instance with a time decay based on notoriety, bounty, cargo value and ship rebuy - in that order.
This helps piracy, bounty hunting, PP efforts (well not really, since PP is broken) and even personal vendettas for a cmdr clever enough to make educated guesses about wakes.
People get so caught up in "punish da bad gankas" they overlook the fundamental underlying issues.
A single, more fundamental changes goes much further. Make all wakes persistent and cross instance with a time decay based on notoriety, bounty, cargo value and ship rebuy - in that order.
This helps piracy, bounty hunting, PP efforts (well not really, since PP is broken) and even personal vendettas for a cmdr clever enough to make educated guesses about wakes.
People get so caught up in "punish da bad gankas" they overlook the fundamental underlying issues.
They don't need to know anyone. They should've not restore any rebuy which occurs during normal gameplay.
Yes. Apparently there was a rumour that a ganker had been let off a rebuy bill (due to a large bounty). This provoked howls of outrage. But now allegedly he wasn't. This provoked howls of outrage (?)
Ah, the usual then. Glad to see the collective brain cells of this community are dwindling at their usual rate.
It’s just a game, folks. Meanwhile, you know, life.