This game needs to impose itself upon the player.

[Dirtbird]

As for random space dangers and harshness etc. The player must be given a way to navigate hazards, that's a basic requirement of design, otherwise they are just playing a frustrating game of dice. Once players become skilled at navigating hazards, they can avoid them, and this is the point that players become bored and complain.

This is where we have explorers who discover these things, map them out, probe their characteristics and dangers, report back and help the rest of us develop methods and technologies to overcome. That’s exploring. They take the risk of being in unknown space, with unknown dangers and make the journey safer for the rest of us, and stake their claim on the discovery. So far we have unknown space mushrooms and clouds or snowflakes or whatever.

 

[LanceLord]

I think Feros is indicating a subset of cmdrs. N-1 (in coder speak) is the total number of a subset. If you use N by itself the app generates a runtime error, ergo, N-1. Perfectly logical if you've ever coded a loop using a subset of objects.

 

[AndyJ]

It always felt stupid to me that you can be an Admiral-King in both opposing superpowers.
How would you model that in game anyway?

In FFE, despite the superpowers being more openly hostile to each other, INRA members conventionally held equal rank in both. So there is precedent there. In 3305 when the superpowers are barely opposed to each other at all? Why not open it up to everyone...

That's not actually the case Ian. The military does take into account your ranking with the enemy in FFE and this negatively affects the missions that are offered to you. You can gain a high rank with one side, but the result is that the other will then only offer basic missions and it becomes impossible to progress to their higher ranks within the commanders lifetime. Missions on offer are based upon your rank points earned from completing missions, but minus the points earned with the enemy.

 

[Lightspeed]

Once Shinrata is over-run by Thargoids, the game will have imposed itself upon a huge number of commanders with ships based there, whether they want to engage aliens or not.

 

[Kaocraft]

What a strange comment - you are, by your comment, admitting that there are other games available... do you honestly think PvE gamers in elite only play that one game... how sad

I'll go out on a limb and say that yeah I think there's a vocal contingent of players on these forums who basically play Elite and nothing else, and as such don't have Clue 1 about what other games are out there or how they work. Otherwise a lot of them would be playing Harvest Moon or Truck Simulator rather than trying to force Elite to fit these genres.

 

[Jenner]

Reminder to stay on topic and off each other's backs. Thanks.

 

[monogenetic]

I think I’d like to reset my save once again and just avoid engineers. The game definitely feels more difficult (more fun) without their upgrades.

 

[Jaiotu]

I've spent a fair amount of time in outbreak systems and never once caught space herpes.

You're doing it wrong?

 

[Jaiotu]

I think I’d like to reset my save once again and just avoid engineers. The game definitely feels more difficult (more fun) without their upgrades.

What are these engineers you speak of?

 

[Kaocraft]

Agreed. Dark Souls (and now Sekiro) are the polar opposite of Elite when it comes to mechanics and needing to develop and refine a skillset in order to progress.

Most PvE Elite players would quit after dying a few times to Asylum Demon or Baby Gundyr. Then probably get laughed at when they went crying to forums or reddit or whatever complaining the game is too hard.

Here's another thing that Dark Souls and literally every good videogame of note got right, which Elite didn't: the ability to create multiple characters and have multiple save games going at once. Can't have challenge, consequence, or meaningful game design without giving people this option. You let people try multiple builds, career paths, etc in different save files, and they will be more tolerant (even embracing) of mutually-exclusive choices, permanent or longlasting consequences for failure, and branching plot/career/progression options. With only 1 account, you kill the incentive for experimentation and you create a situation where all options and opportunities have to be available and viable to all people in all situations at all times, making for a bland grey paste of an experience.

The 1-account-1-save-slot policy is the lynchpin of Elite's design failure. It has to go otherwise there will never, and I mean NEVER, be any improvement.

 

[LanceLord]

You're doing it wrong?

What I believe this PC/insightful Cmdr is trying to say is that he's never made out with a Thargoid. Or any of the biological space fauna for that matter, regardless of whether they're sentient or not.

Which is why we homo sapien Cmdrs need to undergo another Darwinian evolution. Germinate space legs that will free us from our paraplegic state imprisoned in our cockpit seats. So we may better spread our double helix DNA throughout the universe

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

What I believe this PC/insightful Cmdr is trying to say is that he's never made out with a Thargoid. Or any of the biological space fauna for that matter, regardless of whether they're sentient or not.

Which is why we homo sapien Cmdrs need to undergo another Darwinian evolution. Germinate space legs that will free us from our paraplegic state imprisoned in our cockpit seats. So we may better spread our double helix DNA throughout the universe

Ewww, gross!

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

I'll go out on a limb and say that yeah I think there's a vocal contingent of players on these forums who basically play Elite and nothing else, and as such don't have Clue 1 about what other games are out there or how they work. Otherwise a lot of them would be playing Harvest Moon or Truck Simulator rather than trying to force Elite to fit these genres.

No need to go out on a limb. I will tell you without a trace of embarrassment or shame, I only play ED and do not give a flying fig for any other game. I actually start to doze off when others here start maundering on about other games, making comparisons and endless false equivalences. For me, (I assume some others here may feel the same,) this game is special, and doesn't have to be like other games, doesn't even need to try. If anyone would rather be off enjoying delights available elsewhere instead of celebrating the greatness of what we already have, I for one would be glad to see the end of their bitter, entitled, millennial moaning. Thanks Frontier for the wonderful game you have given the true fans, I know you will not give up on us, and that further glory awaits! 07 CMDRs!

 

[Stigbob]

No need to go out on a limb. I will tell you without a trace of embarrassment or shame, I only play ED and do not give a flying fig for any other game. I actually start to doze off when others here start maundering on about other games, making comparisons and endless false equivalences. For me, (I assume some others here may feel the same,) this game is special, and doesn't have to be like other games, doesn't even need to try. If anyone would rather be off enjoying delights available elsewhere instead of celebrating the greatness of what we already have, I for one would be glad to see the end of their bitter, entitled, millennial moaning. Thanks Frontier for the wonderful game you have given the true fans, I know you will not give up on us, and that further glory awaits! 07 CMDRs!

I play ED plus other games yet agree trying to crowbar other games stuff into ED is a really bad idea. One of the main reasons ED is my favorite is that its so different.

Vive la difference.

 

[Morbad]

Here's another thing that Dark Souls and literally every good videogame of note got right, which Elite didn't: the ability to create multiple characters and have multiple save games going at once. Can't have challenge, consequence, or meaningful game design without giving people this option. You let people try multiple builds, career paths, etc in different save files, and they will be more tolerant (even embracing) of mutually-exclusive choices, permanent or longlasting consequences for failure, and branching plot/career/progression options. With only 1 account, you kill the incentive for experimentation and you create a situation where all options and opportunities have to be available and viable to all people in all situations at all times, making for a bland grey paste of an experience.

The 1-account-1-save-slot policy is the lynchpin of Elite's design failure. It has to go otherwise there will never, and I mean NEVER, be any improvement.

I have never more completely disagreed with any opinion, ever.

 

[Stigbob]

Here's another thing that Dark Souls and literally every good videogame of note got right, which Elite didn't: the ability to create multiple characters and have multiple save games going at once. Can't have challenge, consequence, or meaningful game design without giving people this option. You let people try multiple builds, career paths, etc in different save files, and they will be more tolerant (even embracing) of mutually-exclusive choices, permanent or longlasting consequences for failure, and branching plot/career/progression options. With only 1 account, you kill the incentive for experimentation and you create a situation where all options and opportunities have to be available and viable to all people in all situations at all times, making for a bland grey paste of an experience.

The 1-account-1-save-slot policy is the lynchpin of Elite's design failure. It has to go otherwise there will never, and I mean NEVER, be any improvement.

Your ships are your characters, you can even have a rogue thanks to ships being tagged as wanted. No limits there.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Everything in this game is too forgiving.

You can escape any NPC simply by boost-boost-jumping away.
NPC Combat is a joke.
Pirated NPCs will literally just sit there and let you pirate them.
Markets are so stable that it's virtually impossible to lose money when trading.
Factions will pay you to find worthless space rocks far-far away that no faction should ever care about.
You can be wanted, with a hold full of the most ludicrous contraband, and you can slip into port just be going silent for a moment (and the traffic controller is like "meh".)
Authority ships are reactive only (they should be all over bounties like stink on...).
Stations are totally passive unless you provoke them.
Thargoids are caged inside USSs, and pose no threat unless you choose to engage them.
Factions hold no grudge(You can descend on a faction like Ghengis Khan, then run a few missions for them and they're like "meh").
Same with superpowers - there is no risk-reward factor when working with/for superpowers (i.e. You can be top rank in both, and they're both like "meh".)
Powerplay is just bad and needs to be completely redesigned.

What did I miss?
In what other ways do you feel that this game fails to impose itself upon you?
How would you like to see this game impose itself upon you to make PvE gameplay more interesting?

Vin

A few more.

Space phenomena are not Dangerous... Black holes for example.
Ship loss is only a penalty to new players who are still building bank. But bank isnt hard after a few hours, So ship loss isnt a problem especially to old players.
Money is to easy to make.
NPC interdictions are just time wasters, escape every time.


--

Just thinking out loud.
Maybe Fdev should add a Hardcore player mode. We all still load into the same game space, but different rank titles and different decals are available to players who play the game in this harder mode, different rules, lower pay outs, more aggressive A.I etc. Not sure how this would balance in group activities with other players who have chosen a lower skill level, but food for thought?

 

[Kaocraft]

Your ships are your characters, you can even have a rogue thanks to ships being tagged as wanted. No limits there.

That's just not true. But if it *were* true I would be totally onboard with that as a substitute for multiple save slots. Give every ship its own reputation, faction ranking, engineering access, pilots federation rank, etc. Let each ship pledge to a different powerplay faction and let us load up our game inside any of the ships in our fleet when we start up the game. And then build on that. Edit: and then maybe get rid of insurance rebuy.

 

[Kaocraft]

I play ED plus other games yet agree trying to crowbar other games stuff into ED is a really bad idea. One of the main reasons ED is my favorite is that its so different.

Vive la difference.

My point is that people who don't play or understand other games are more likely to try and force Elite to be something it's not meant to be, just because they have no idea that there's already another game out there that completely fulfills that need. They make endless demands which amount to reinventing the wheel over and over again and they drag the design direction into lowest-common-denominator territory which is why 75% of Elite is structured like a clicker game.

 

[Kaocraft]

No need to go out on a limb. I will tell you without a trace of embarrassment or shame, I only play ED and do not give a flying fig for any other game. I actually start to doze off when others here start maundering on about other games, making comparisons and endless false equivalences. For me, (I assume some others here may feel the same,) this game is special, and doesn't have to be like other games, doesn't even need to try. If anyone would rather be off enjoying delights available elsewhere instead of celebrating the greatness of what we already have, I for one would be glad to see the end of their bitter, entitled, millennial moaning. Thanks Frontier for the wonderful game you have given the true fans, I know you will not give up on us, and that further glory awaits! 07 CMDRs!

If you played other games you'd realize that Elite is becoming more and more like other games every day, and each new thing added to the game has been a watered-down half-implemented "me too" feature cribbed from some of the saddest trends in mass-market schlock. The best parts of Elite are indeed special and if not unique, are at least exemplary in their execution. I don't think the best way to celebrate this is by cheering every time Frontier sand off one more corner or dilute another play system into inconsequentiality.