Noone Riding Certain Flats

[Phenix Studios]

Teacups.. the Witch Ride.. No one is queuing at all for these rides. i keep adding scenery around them to make them more attractive. But the guests just aren't interested.

How do I get them interested in these particular rides. My coasters, log flume, Aeronauts, swings.. most everything else is queuing fine just seems like no one has any interest in these two flats no matter what I try. I know I'm missing something here, and there's something I'm not understanding on how it works.

 

[inspectorgadget1]

Ride price too high? Where are they located in your park? Is it a ride reputation issue, what game mode are you playing? Screenshots of your park/ride thoughts may assist us in working out what's wrong [cool]

 

[Phenix Studios]

It's at an intersection of the park.. lot's guests near them or pass by to get to a section of the park with coasters.. sandbox mode. No price.. as I like to use park admission, free rides. can't provide screenshots at the moment as I'm working.. this is just something I've been trying to solve for a few days. almost 4000 guests in the park and they just don't seem to like these two rides for some reason..

 

[breezerHOG1]

is the ride old?

admission price is not very profitable i use this to price rides https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=877268657

 

[Phenix Studios]

It's sandbox.. so I'm not really worried about the profits and such.. but I'd still like people to ride the rides I put effort into plopping down in just the right locations and theming. Changing to a cost per ride isn't going to help cause if they aren't riding it for free.. they aren't going to pay a $1 or more to ride it either lol. It's not too old either.. but.. it's never really gotten any riders since I placed it at all.. always been a bad performer.

 

[breezerHOG1]

It's sandbox

you should have said so from the beginning, that would seem annoying

 

[PC_OCD]

change/add some sequences to up the prestige

InfinityFox is a genius!
https://forums.planetcoaster.com/showthread.php/22502-Ride-Optimizations

 

[Phenix Studios]

I'll try mixing it up.... Won't really go by Infinity's exact methods.. but I suppose increasing the run time of the flats won't hurt.. It's the prestige I think that is hurting the rides.. but I thought prestige had no effect in sandbox

 

[PC_OCD]

I honestly don't know if it does or not. I only use sandbox for building rollercoasters or unique buildings. I usually play the game in challenge mode but there was a significant increase in ride popularity when increasing run times. Hopefully that will help you out

-edit:
I couldn't leave this alone and had to investigate so, I put two magic twirl rides down right next to each other in sandbox and added 3 main sequences to one and kept the other with default 4 sequences. The one with 7 sequences increased prestige by 94 points. Although, ride aging is not in affect in sandbox, prestige still is and you should see an increase in popularity for your rides by increasing run times. This is confusing because the developers used odd terminology for the on/off option: "Ride Reputation" checkbox instead of "Ride Aging" checkbox. I can see how you may have thought otherwise.

or (I just realized) I could have continued to read InfinityFox's full post and found out that entire guide was created using rides built in sandbox mode

 

[Bullethead]

How do I get them interested in these particular rides. My coasters, log flume, Aeronauts, swings.. most everything else is queuing fine just seems like no one has any interest in these two flats no matter what I try. I know I'm missing something here, and there's something I'm not understanding on how it works.

Yeah, short of some sort of revision/rebalance in how peeps decide which ride to go on, the tamer flat rides are just going to be impossible to make popular and hard to keep even partially busy no matter what you do because they're, well, just tame. They only appeal to the most timid minority of peep society, who are afraid of everything else. Their fear is below the minimum standards of nearly all peeps so practically everybody will prefer something even slightly scarier. And their excitement is so low that their prestige is always about the lowest in the park so they can't overcome their low fear handicap. You can't fix either of these problems with the sequences because these rides usually just have fast and slow speeds, neither of which really does anything except increase duration. That at least increases prestige slightly, but unless you make the ride last a ridiculous amount of time, its prestige is still going to suck compared to the rest of the park.

So..... Just as rides with fear much over 5.5 are niche attractions, so are these tame flat rides. Both cater to statistical outliers in the peep population. So just accept that, and the fact that the ride will probably lose money. But think of that as an investment, just like having free ATMs. It's better to lose $100-200/month on a tame flat ride and make that small, impossible-to-please-otherwise segment of the customer base happy, than it is to not have anything that suits their limited tastes so they get PO'd. Keeping these ultra-timid peeps happy keeps park rating high, which brings in more of your mainstream customers.

Thus, what I do is add some sequences to get the duration up to about 3 minutes. It really doesn't matter which sequences with these rides, nor the order you put them in, because the rides are so tame. Even doing this, the prestige is still going to suck compared to everything else. Then I set the ride to go at full load OR after a max wait of 3 minutes, which is usually the case. So, during the 6-minute cycle of the ride, usually enough timid peeps show up to at least fill half the seats. That gives me a visual cue that the ride is doing its best to reduce how much money it loses per month and keeping the overall park rating up.

 

[breezerHOG1]

This is confusing because the developers used odd terminology for the on/off option: "Ride Reputation" checkbox instead of "Ride Aging" checkbox.

reputation does not equal prestige

Won't really go by Infinity's exact methods

i don't see why you would be against it? if your playing in sandbox everything is free anyway, his guide just shows you the highest prestige rating you can get for every flat ride (without scenery) isnt that exactly what you want in a sandbox park?

It really doesn't matter which sequences with these rides, nor the order you put them in, because the rides are so tame.

based on infinitys guide, theres only a few rides which dont get a big boost from longer ride times, but some of them get a really big boost, of course I've found specific rides to be a complete waste too

It's better to lose $100-200/month on a tame flat ride and make that small, impossible-to-please-otherwise segment of the customer base happy, than it is to not have anything that suits their limited tastes so they get PO'd.

I'd rather just throw up an extra carousel, they seem to be extremely profitable while also keeping timid guests happy

 

[Phenix Studios]

reputation does not equal prestige


i don't see why you would be against it? if your playing in sandbox everything is free anyway, his guide just shows you the highest prestige rating you can get for every flat ride (without scenery) isnt that exactly what you want in a sandbox park?

No... It's actually not.. I kinda like things to be more realistic and fun to watch then just set something to max because that's the most "economical" way to go about it. that doesn't look as good.. I could build a 100 carousels if I wanted.. but wheres the fun in that.. what would a park look like with that.. I'll tell you.. it won't be pretty.. and I have invested at least two months so far into building my park. So I'll play it my way. You haven't actually offered anything constructive to the conversation So unless you have nothing but negativity or unhelpfulness. I kindly point you to the exit sign at any link you would click to go elsewhere. Thank you.

Bullethead.. Thanks for your comment. I've been toying with the ride sequences since I got home and have found a few that I like that have upped the prestige and the ride lines are getting longer. Yeah.. it does increase the time the ride is moving.. but nothing too drastic so it's working me. You are also correct they are gravitating towards the more "thrilling" rides . One option I am thinking is use the marketing tools to get more families into the park. I believe that will be an additional help

 

[Bullethead]

based on infinitys guide, theres only a few rides which dont get a big boost from longer ride times, but some of them get a really big boost, of course I've found specific rides to be a complete waste too

Prestige is only a 2ndary consideration, a tie-breaker, and even a 2x prestige advantage can be trumped by something as mundane as 1/2 the travel time required to get to a ride. Fear is a primary consideration, a deal-breaker. Rides with pathetically low fear, such as the tamer flat rides, simply do not attract many peeps, due to where the average min and max fear tolerances are for the various demographics. Because their fear ratings are such a poor fit for most peeps, it really doesn't matter how prestigious you make them, because the peeps would rather go on something a bit more scary.

Bullethead.. Thanks for your comment. I've been toying with the ride sequences since I got home and have found a few that I like that have upped the prestige and the ride lines are getting longer. Yeah.. it does increase the time the ride is moving.. but nothing too drastic so it's working me. You are also correct they are gravitating towards the more "thrilling" rides . One option I am thinking is use the marketing tools to get more families into the park. I believe that will be an additional help

Marketing IMHO is a complete waste of money. There's an "if you build it, they will come" mechanic in PC. The demographic ratios in your park are the result of what you've built. If you have an even mix of stuff catering to all demographics, then you'll have even demographic ratios. If you build more towards one demographic than another, then you'll get more of that demographic at the expense of the other. So, if you don't have as many, say, families as you want, it's because you didn't build enough family-friendly stuff. Marketing isn't going to fix that. Instead, it's counterproductive. The marketing will bring in more families, but they'll be unhappy because there's not much for them to do, and they'll leave with money still in their pockets, all the while keeping out some of the adult and teen customers your park is really more suited towards.

And even with families, you want a ride fear rating in the range of 3.7-3.9. Such rides are attractive to about 80% of all peeps of all demographics, and with that much fear, you can get enough excitement to really jack up the prestige, so the ride can compete evenly with the rest of the park. These are your cash cows. Anything with a fear below about 3.5, and certainly below 3.0, is a total niche market just there for park ratings, not to make a profit itself.

 

[breezerHOG1]

I kinda like things to be more realistic and fun to watch then just set something to max because that's the most "economical" way to go about it. that doesn't look as good.. I could build a 100 carousels if I wanted.. but wheres the fun in that.. what would a park look like with that.. I'll tell you.. it won't be pretty..

the guide raises prestige to gain more guests which has nothing to do with economics when your playing sandbox, realistic or not a pretty park is a busy park [wink]

 

[PC_OCD]

The thing I don't get is some of these rides are really popular in parks. Take the Victory for example. That ride always has a line. Even at big parks with tons of rollercoasters, like Six Flags, the line gets really long. Planet Coaster not so. I had real trouble getting peeps on that ride, in a pirate themed park no less. This was before I discovered the InfinityFox guide and I was still very noob, but I did try to change the sequences to no avail. But it led me to believe The Victory is just a big waste of $2400 and I haven't ever used it again. So, its not just you Shadow, I feel the flat rides are missing something, and could use a little dev bump in attractiveness. Its like you say, Once the park is established and you've tricked out some rides with high prestige points, some of the flat rides don't seem worth the bother or the cost to build, but on the other hand, I don't want to stop using certain rides, I want to use all the flat rides. Its part of the fun of the game and peeps should enjoy them without having to be on a stretched out 9 sequence ride that takes 5 minutes.

Bullethead makes a good point that some peeps are just lame and need lame rides to keep them happy but does their happiness/lameness actually effect the park rating that much? Maybe instead of attracting them, you run TV adds to get rid of them? But should this even be a concern? Is this supposed to be "management" in planet coaster? It doesn't feel like management to me. I can, and have made a loopy "crazy one" coaster that is low fear that the uber-lame will ride but they won't go on a spinning flat ride? That just doesn't seem right to me.

As a suggestion for a future update possibly, I think it would be neat if certain flat rides got a bump in prestige based on themed scenery. For example The Victory gets extra prestige with pirate themed scenery and wood walls. The teacups get extra for castle walls and fairy tale scenery, and so on.

-edit just noticed Bulletheads new post: IMHO the fear factor is not correct for the peeps and I think that is part of the problem. Just as one example,teen groups should not be getting in queues for Wendigos and Jr. Dragon coasters with as much enthusiasm as family groups.

 

[breezerHOG1]

the game isnt capable of simulating real life 100% accurately. I don't know why the devs chose to set each ride at the prestige/popularity they did, but whether or not the game is realistic has nothing to do with it being balanced as a game, which I think its very close to being balanced but could be a little better

I think it would be neat if certain flat rides got a bump in prestige based on themed scenery. For example The Victory gets extra prestige with pirate themed scenery and wood walls. The teacups get extra for castle walls and fairy tale scenery, and so on.

thats an interesting idea

 

[Bullethead]

Bullethead makes a good point that some peeps are just lame and need lame rides to keep them happy but does their happiness/lameness actually effect the park rating that much? Maybe instead of attracting them, you run TV adds to get rid of them? But should this even be a concern? Is this supposed to be "management" in planet coaster? It doesn't feel like management to me. I can, and have made a loopy "crazy one" coaster that is low fear that the uber-lame will ride but they won't go on a spinning flat ride? That just doesn't seem right to me.

Well, there's no way to NOT get some very timid customers because their stats are randomly determined. And timidity is not unique to families. Quite a few adults and even teens have very low fear tolerances, so there's no demographic-specific tool you can apply. So you're always going to have a number of wimps in your park. It's probably better to make them happy than not.

As a suggestion for a future update possibly, I think it would be neat if certain flat rides got a bump in prestige based on themed scenery. For example The Victory gets extra prestige with pirate themed scenery and wood walls. The teacups get extra for castle walls and fairy tale scenery, and so on.

Hmmm, that would be a very difficult thing to do. Peeps would have to be able to see and recognize the type of each piece of scenery, and count how many of each type. And then there's the problem that you can build a "pirate themed" area out of parts from every other theme.

But regardless, the main issue is how the prestige system works. There's a significant break point in the prestige spectrum at about 600-700. Rides above that level can co-exist and all do reasonable business, but rides below that level get nearly zero business if there's anything with higher prestige. And it's very hard to get a tame flat ride that prestigious. They have no excitement and, being flat rides, only have queue scenery whereas coasters and track rides also get track scenery. So the only option for tame flat rides is to up their duration significantly.

But if you do all that, so your carousel or whatever now has 700 prestige, it's still not going to do a whole lot of business because its extremely low fear rating keeps it as a niche product. Because you don't have many customers in that niche, you can't have very many rides catering to that niche.

-edit just noticed Bulletheads new post: IMHO the fear factor is not correct for the peeps and I think that is part of the problem. Just as one example,teen groups should not be getting in queues for Wendigos and Jr. Dragon coasters with as much enthusiasm as family groups.

Heheh, now you're stereotyping As mentioned, due to fear tolerances being randomly rolled, peeps of all demographics can be total wimps. Why shouldn't they be allowed to go on rides that suit their tastes?

Besides, making hard rules like this makes the game as a whole too deterministic. To me, the fun of PC is that it's a mysterious puzzle, not very deterministic.

 

[Phenix Studios]

Heheh, now you're stereotyping As mentioned, due to fear tolerances being randomly rolled, peeps of all demographics can be total wimps. Why shouldn't they be allowed to go on rides that suit their tastes?

Besides, making hard rules like this makes the game as a whole too deterministic. To me, the fun of PC is that it's a mysterious puzzle, not very deterministic.

What if that just want that coaster credit for the Wendigo Jr. to add to their list, I am not going to be the one to say.. hey.. you're too old for this.. lol. Let them ride.

 

[PC_OCD]

I think you're generalizing a little bit here Bullethead I'm not in the mind set of dictatorship and I like the puzzle aspect too. My basic point is why does a thrill seeker (I didn't mean all teens in general), have a fear factor of .8 - 7.8? If they are determining rides on fear (I actually think they do not, and should). I think a thrill seeking teenager should not be as interested in a family rides as much a timid peep. Last time I was at a park, I didn't see many teens in kiddie land, riding the jr. coaster. Do they ocassionally? Yes of course, but shouldn't a ride with a fear factor of 6 be more interesting to them then some little Jr. coaster that's fear is so low it doesn't even have green stats? I understand this is just a game but its not realistic for a thrill seeking teen to be deciding to ride a Jr. Dragon 4 times while the high prestige, really cool suspended, inverted, coaster with fear factor inside their limits and basically built just for them, sits unnoticed. Most teens in real parks line up for the big scary rollercoasters. Of course there is the timid teen and I don't mind that at all, and I also think its great they may have a bucket-list as Shadow points out. My problem lies in, if fear is the deal breaking factor it should also be a decision factor for attractiveness, the peeps, especially the thrill seekers, shouldn't be as enthusiastic for a 3.4 fear ride as a well built 6.3 fear ride. I also mildly disagree with this idea that fear is the deal breaker, I think there is more to it than just fear, (nausea perhaps?) because I have a carousel that has a queue that's always full in a park with very high prestige rides regardless of classic age being used or not. Yes its probably the "deal breaker" determining if they will ride but its not what's attracting them to rides. Excitement and prestige are and that's why I think flat rides need to have something more to give them a higher attractiveness.

As for my scenery suggestion, the peep wouldn't be walking around the park thinking "hey this ride has 20 parts of pirate scenery" it would be calculated just like prestige works already. Prestige is calculated after the train or ride runs a full circuit. Its not calculated by individual peeps. And sure you can build a pirate themed ride with non pirate parts but an added bonus for using pirate scenery on a flat ride obviously intended for such a theme I think, should give an added attractiveness to the ride. And to add to my suggestion, maybe an option box in customization to determine the theme you want the ride to have bonus for? I mean who cares if The Victory is spaced out or not, if that's the theme you're going for right?

But going back to this thread's main point. It really does seem that the flat rides should be more attractive to the peeps. I disagree with creeper, I don't think its well balanced, and you shouldn't have to make a ride last 5-10 minutes to be attractive. Adding a themed scenery bonus is just a suggestion to help flat rides get that extra little boost of attractiveness. Maybe as the saying goes, "you can put makeup on a pig but its still a pig" is the way the developers were thinking but I don't think so. I think they want the peeps to be enthusiastic for the flat rides which they have so very nicely and meticulously created, but as for one example, Hellion Ring is basically a complete wash and I don't see why anyone would ever use that ride as a piece to the puzzle or a park bonus or for any gameplay attribute (other than maybe a ride bonus?). I only see it used for two purposes, aesthetics or nostalgia.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Hmmm, that would be a very difficult thing to do. Peeps would have to be able to see and recognize the type of each piece of scenery, and count how many of each type. And then there's the problem that you can build a "pirate themed" area out of parts from every other theme.

It would not be difficult at all because the guests don't actually see, and the CPU can do the counting automatically [wink] the idea of adding another calculation to the values of guest happiness might take a tiny toll on the CPU, but it is possible. RCT3 worked in that way, where using the same scenery set together would give you a bonus. I thought it was a really cool thing the first time I built a heavily themed park, and I was receiving different bonuses in each area, but there was no bonus for mixing themes. Its great for casual players

The devs intentionally removed the bonus for using sets of scenery, in order to promote the "mix and match" style of blending themes. Essentially, you could say the devs were a bit lazy though, as we could have many of the pieces listed as generic or non-themed, while still retaining the bonus of specific pieces which fit a certain theme.

There also is no need for detracting values, in the sense that mixing themes would not produce a negative affect on guest thoughts. But if guests are in proximity of a large group of pirate themed scenery combined together, it would be nice if the guests thought something like "wow I feel like a pirate! ARGH!!" or whatever.

Personally, if a ride has a specific theme to it, I think it should receive a bonus for more of that similar theme, at least for a career/challenge mode aspect, but in sandbox it really doesn't matter anyway. And I think most of the more skilled creators and artists who can mix themes with ease would not care either way, as they mostly play in sandbox.